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Lord Lister

Renters Union - Guaging Opinion

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Just a thought, and interested in feedback, but how about starting a renters union, a lobby group for people who rent their home. Political lobbying, a more "European style rental market" and if needs be payment strikes. (That may be illegal not sure)

Having been renting for 3 years now, I am on the whole quite appauled by a number of things, not least the way renters are treated like second class citizens.

Just recently I have been asked to vacate my home becasue the landlord wants to move back in. I don't have a problem with that, it's their house, however, I have been given 2 months to find somewhere, which frankly is not long enough. This needs to be increased.

It is also particularly frustraiting that much of the housing stock is taken up by buy to let properties where the landlords put restrictions such as no children, no pets etc, this reduces the number of suitable properties for many people.

I think rents are outrageously high.

Frankly the quality of some of the properties and the upkeep is often dreadful, landlords often do not keep to their side of the bargain.

I am sure you have other rental moans to add.

Thing is, I don't think tennants are really represented, I maybe wrong, but there are landlord associations etc, is there an equilivent tennants association?

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Just a thought, and interested in feedback, but how about starting a renters union, a lobby group for people who rent their home. Political lobbying, a more "European style rental market" and if needs be payment strikes. (That may be illegal not sure)

Having been renting for 3 years now, I am on the whole quite appauled by a number of things, not least the way renters are treated like second class citizens.

Just recently I have been asked to vacate my home becasue the landlord wants to move back in. I don't have a problem with that, it's their house, however, I have been given 2 months to find somewhere, which frankly is not long enough. This needs to be increased.

Why is two months not long enough?

IME (decent) rental propery stays available for a couple of weeks at most.

When moving you always have to take the best that is available to suit your moving in date. Having six months notice is not IME going to increas the choice considerably because people with property to rent today, are not going to keep it empty until you can move!

tim

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Why is two months not long enough?

The problems are exasperbated by 12 month utility contracts too. The whole thing makes the 6 month AST completely impractical.

I'm not a big fan of government legislation, but an AST with a minimum 12 months would be a start in the right direction.

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...Having been renting for 3 years now, I am on the whole quite appauled by a number of things, not least the way renters are treated like second class citizens.

Just recently I have been asked to vacate my home becasue the landlord wants to move back in. I don't have a problem with that, it's their house, however, I have been given 2 months to find somewhere, which frankly is not long enough. This needs to be increased....

I totally agree. I am just moving into a new rented house with the wife and two children. If we were given 2 months notice, I would struggle to find a suitable house in the area within that time. We have children and pets so we need to stay in the area to keep continuity with schools and having pets cuts our choice of properties considerably. Thank god we don't smoke!

Also, AST contracts sound like they are written assuming the tennant is a student. No candles, no bluetack, no hanging pictures/shelves, no pets, no smoking, inspections every 3 months! the list goes on...

An assured tenancy (not shorthold) as the default agreement would be my wish if i could change one thing about the uk rental market. Security of tenure is something every citizen in a civilised society should have. It may be the landlords HOUSE, but it is the tenants HOME, and everyone deserves the right to live in their home without the threat of two months notice hanging over their head.

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Where I am its not long enough because there just isn't that many suitable properties to let. 6 months is going to increase the choice immensely because once given the notice, the tennant need only give one month to the landlord, so I have six months to find somewhere and the landlord will get his property back at some point within the six months. (Clearly this is in the scenario where the landlord wants his property back to sell or move into). Different rules would need to apply for different evictions reasons, ie damage, non payment of rent etc

I don't think that is unreasonable when your talking about someones home and family life, I mean, you have to give more notice to draw your money out of some bank accounts thay you do to kick someone out of their home!

Why is two months not long enough?

IME (decent) rental propery stays available for a couple of weeks at most.

When moving you always have to take the best that is available to suit your moving in date. Having six months notice is not IME going to increas the choice considerably because people with property to rent today, are not going to keep it empty until you can move!

tim

Edited by Lord Lister

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I think a TENANTS union is an idea well overdue. A renter sounds like a gay curb crawler.

It could be very useful for providing information on tenants rights, and warning prospective tenants

localy of crooks and thieves in the landlording racket.

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Renters certainly have lots of leverage (pardon the pun).

If you have a crap landlord then:

a. Plan to move out at the end of the agreement, AFTER asking for a rent reduction;

b. Call the agent/landlord for EVERY minor thing. I know I do 'cos he's a money-obsessed lunatic.

The End.

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The problems are exasperbated by 12 month utility contracts too. The whole thing makes the 6 month AST completely impractical.

I'm not a big fan of government legislation, but an AST with a minimum 12 months would be a start in the right direction.

If you want a minimum of 12 months then ask for it I (and don't accept a break clause)

tim

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Where I am its not long enough because there just isn't that many suitable properties to let. 6 months is going to increase the choice immensely because once given the notice, the tennant need only give one month to the landlord,

Do you really think that it would change like this?

In the countries where I have lived where the landlord has to give more notice (than in the UK) the notice period is symmetrical.

tim

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I totally agree. I am just moving into a new rented house with the wife and two children. If we were given 2 months notice, I would struggle to find a suitable house in the area within that time. We have children and pets so we need to stay in the area to keep continuity with schools and having pets cuts our choice of properties considerably. Thank god we don't smoke!

Also, AST contracts sound like they are written assuming the tennant is a student. No candles, no bluetack, no hanging pictures/shelves, no pets, no smoking, inspections every 3 months! the list goes on...

An assured tenancy (not shorthold) as the default agreement would be my wish if i could change one thing about the uk rental market. Security of tenure is something every citizen in a civilised society should have. It may be the landlords HOUSE, but it is the tenants HOME, and everyone deserves the right to live in their home without the threat of two months notice hanging over their head.

And what is the landlord supposed to do if the tenant doesn't pay the rent or is an impossible-to-live-with idiot who makes his neighbours' lives a misery? Greater security of tenure would only encourage tenants to default on the rent - only pay 50% one month, 10% another, 80% another, and there is nothing the landlord can do about it because the courts will see this as an attempt to pay and are unlikely to enforce eviction.

AST contracts are written the way they are to cover all the bases: tenants in my experience do not look after properties properly, and will blithely burn the house down with lighted candles, ruin the decor with blu-tack and all the rest. They take teh attitude: it's not my property, my rent's too high (tenants never think they are paying a fair rent), why should I care? But how would you feel if you let out your property and your tenant let their pets scratch the carpets to bits or do their business everywhere? Put yourself in the landlord's shows for a change. The vast majority of them are perfectly decent individuals who just want a quiet life and reliable, well-behaved tenants, but experience has taught them the way that rogue tenants behave and they have to be cautious.

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I've seen countless threads on here with HPCers extolling the virtues of renting over ownership, and saying how much cheaper it is, e.g. we rent our house for £x per month but it would cost £x+y to pay the mortgage. This thread seems to contradict this general consensus.

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I've seen countless threads on here with HPCers extolling the virtues of renting over ownership, and saying how much cheaper it is, e.g. we rent our house for £x per month but it would cost £x+y to pay the mortgage. This thread seems to contradict this general consensus.

OP seemed to be suggesting some kind of lobby group which aims to either strengthen tenants' rights or ensure that existing rights are better enforced, nothing to do with whether you've made the right financial decision.

Re OP's point - from my p.o.v. I'm not so worried about the state of the place, as in my experience you can get a pretty good feel for that (and the landlord's willingness to remedy stuff) before signing a contract. But I'd like to see some kind of financial comfort given to renters - for instance why shdn't a landlord have to provide some kind of proof that they're not about to be repossessed? The landlord is allowed to get confirmation that you're employed and the wage you're on, so why can't the tenant get a letter from the landlord's bank saying that they're not in arrears (and noting the amount times they have been in arrears in say the last 5 years).

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And what is the landlord supposed to do if the tenant doesn't pay the rent or is an impossible-to-live-with idiot who makes his neighbours' lives a misery? Greater security of tenure would only encourage tenants to default on the rent - only pay 50% one month, 10% another, 80% another, and there is nothing the landlord can do about it because the courts will see this as an attempt to pay and are unlikely to enforce eviction.

Not paying the rent in full and on time is breach of contract and the tenant can and should be evicted unless and agreement can be made between him and the landlord to clear the arrears and pay future rent on time.

AST contracts are written the way they are to cover all the bases: tenants in my experience do not look after properties properly, and will blithely burn the house down with lighted candles, ruin the decor with blu-tack and all the rest. They take teh attitude: it's not my property, my rent's too high (tenants never think they are paying a fair rent), why should I care? But how would you feel if you let out your property and your tenant let their pets scratch the carpets to bits or do their business everywhere? Put yourself in the landlord's shows for a change. The vast majority of them are perfectly decent individuals who just want a quiet life and reliable, well-behaved tenants, but experience has taught them the way that rogue tenants behave and they have to be cautious.

Your properties obviously attract a poor quality of tenant or myself and my friends are in a minority. Everyone I know who rents their home takes good care of it and treats it with the respect it deserves. As for damage caused by pets, blue tack etc that is what deposits are for. I totally agree that a tenant should leave the property in a similar state to which it was when they moved in and if they do not the landlord should be entitled to deduct a suitable amount from the deposit to cover his costs to make good any damages. But while the tenant is living in the property they should be allowed to use it like it is their HOME. It is called ‘quiet enjoyment’. Does your mortgage provider stipulate no candles in case you burn down your house? What makes you think I am any more likely to burn down my home if it is rented rather than purchased? Either way I will be homeless and my possessions will be destroyed, so It’s not really in my best interest to burn the place down irrespective of who owns it.

You have to remember that properties for rent in the residential sector are a business for the landlord and a home for the people who rent them. You have a choice to participate in that market or not. Many tenants do not have a choice, they cannot afford to buy so they must rent. I think that not enough attention is drawn to the misery and anxiety caused to families and children who are forced to move from their homes at short notice. It is, in my opinion a gross injustice to impose a 2-month eviction notice period on a family renting a home assuming they have not broken any of the terms of their contract.

As far as I can tell (and I’m not a lawyer) an assured tenancy would not give the tenant any more rights to damage a property or pay no rent or cause trouble to the neighbours, but it would allow them to live in their home without the fear of eviction at any time. Is that so unfair?

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And what is the landlord supposed to do if...............

Don't know, don't care. Consult your local landlords association.. hey, would love to attend one of their meetings!

Feck off, take your problems elsewhere. This thread is not about you.

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Like most organisations, to be effective it would need resources. How much would you be prepared to pay in subscriptions to be a member? 5 quid a month?

Some of the value it could provide:

- database of tenancy agreements to see what the market standard is;

- legal assistance in disputes with landlords;

- a database of bad landlords to avoid;

- 'landlord references'.

So some HPC'er out there - get working on this. You can pay someone 10 grand to do the admin and yourself 200 grand as the CEO (20 x the lowest earner's wage). Unfortunately the Labour NGO money has dried up, but maybe the coalition will give you some.

RENTERS OF THE WORLD UNITE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT POSSESSION.

Edited by newbie

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Like most organisations, to be effective it would need resources. How much would you be prepared to pay in subscriptions to be a member? 5 quid a month?

Some of the value it could provide:

- database of tenancy agreements to see what the market standard is;

- legal assistance in disputes with landlords;

- a database of bad landlords to avoid;

- 'landlord references'.

So some HPC'er out there - get working on this. You can pay someone 10 grand to do the admin and yourself 200 grand as the CEO (20 x the lowest earner's wage). Unfortunately the Labour NGO money has dried up, but maybe the coalition will give you some.

RENTERS OF THE WORLD UNITE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT POSSESSION.

Meanwhile back in the real world; I suggest it would only be practical to organise this on a local, voluntary basis. Should efforts succeed, perhaps a federation of regional Tennants Unions might be formed.

It need not be grinding hard work. At least you would meet some new and interesting people rather than dismal tw*ts who regard every issue as a potential moneymaking opportunity.

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I've seen countless threads on here with HPCers extolling the virtues of renting over ownership, and saying how much cheaper it is, e.g. we rent our house for £x per month but it would cost £x+y to pay the mortgage. This thread seems to contradict this general consensus.

I suspect half the people extolling the 'virtues of renting' here, are landlords

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Guest The Relaxation Suite

Just a thought, and interested in feedback, but how about starting a renters union, a lobby group for people who rent their home. Political lobbying, a more "European style rental market" and if needs be payment strikes. (That may be illegal not sure)

Having been renting for 3 years now, I am on the whole quite appauled by a number of things, not least the way renters are treated like second class citizens.

Just recently I have been asked to vacate my home becasue the landlord wants to move back in. I don't have a problem with that, it's their house, however, I have been given 2 months to find somewhere, which frankly is not long enough. This needs to be increased.

It is also particularly frustraiting that much of the housing stock is taken up by buy to let properties where the landlords put restrictions such as no children, no pets etc, this reduces the number of suitable properties for many people.

I think rents are outrageously high.

Frankly the quality of some of the properties and the upkeep is often dreadful, landlords often do not keep to their side of the bargain.

I am sure you have other rental moans to add.

Thing is, I don't think tennants are really represented, I maybe wrong, but there are landlord associations etc, is there an equilivent tennants association?

This is an excellent idea. For some time now I have wondered why tenants have to get/provide references from landlords, but landlords are not required to get/provide references from tenants. I suspect this is a hangover from the feudal serf/baron tradition of renting when it would have been preposterous to ask a serf to make judgement upon a baron.

But this is the 21st Century, and there is no reason to presume tenants are incapable of providing as honest a reference as the landlord. Let's face it, many educated white collar professionals now rent off of extremely dubious personages. So I suggest lobbying MPs until one who is sympathetic to this is found and can introduce a bill into Parliament making it obligatory for landlords to provide references from previous tenants.

I have had money stolen from me by unscrupulous landlords on several occasions and the only way future tenants to these properties could have been warned is if I were legally required to provide a reference. There are websites now where you can write in about your landlord but these are "under the radar" and not enough.

LANDLORDS MUST PROVIDE REFERENCES FROM PREVIOUS TENANTS.

Edited by Tecumseh

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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