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Tired of Waiting

Wealth Distribution In Britain

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The chart is a bit old, but it does shed a little light on wealth distribution in Britain. (Source: HMRC)

ukdistributionofpropert.png

Anybody knows of a more updated version?

It would be very interesting to find out about the top 1% as well. I suspect it would be very high also.

We do need proper property tax, fully proportional to value, and without ceiling - unlike Council Tax.

And any info on general wealth distribution? I mean, besides properties?

Edit: I've found more data: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/7723561/Average-household-wealth-jumps-150000.html

Telegraph 15 May 2010

"Average household wealth jumps £150,000

The average household in Britain has seen its wealth jump more than £150,000 during the last half century, official figures have disclosed.

In 1959, typical household wealth – including equity in property, savings, pensions and shares – was the equivalent of £72,700 in today’s money. By last year, the figure had risen to £237,000."

And some more data:

article-1278511-0995EE79000005DC-630_233x270.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278511/Families-times-richer-1959.html

According to the BBC there are 25.5 million households in Britain. Therefore:

Average financial assets / household = £148,901

Average housing equity / household = £98,784

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=141630&view=findpost&p=2495009

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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The chart is a bit old, but it does shed a little light on wealth distribution in Britain. (Source: HMRC)

ukdistributionofpropert.png

Anybody knows of a more updated version?

It would be very interesting to find out about the top 1% as well. I suspect it would be very high also.

We do need proper property tax, fully proportional to value, and without ceiling - unlike Council Tax.

And any info on general wealth distribution? I mean, besides properties?

'Trickle down economics' copyright 1979.

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'Trickle down economics' copyright 1979.

Productive areas of economic activity do trickle down much more. But the hoarding of assets don't much. Rents mainly keep a parasitic cast parasitising. Many just unproductive, parasitic, lucky heirs b@stards.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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The chart is a bit old, but it does shed a little light on wealth distribution in Britain. (Source: HMRC)

ukdistributionofpropert.png

Anybody knows of a more updated version?

It would be very interesting to find out about the top 1% as well. I suspect it would be very high also.

We do need proper property tax, fully proportional to value, and without ceiling - unlike Council Tax.

And any info on general wealth distribution? I mean, besides properties?

Strange chart, and surely significantly changed now.

Don't think the answer is a property tax though. The whole economy has to be redirected to production, rather than rent seeking.

No doubt that most of the upper 5% are largely wealthy from property investment themselves, a self perpetuating societal monster....

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Fail. Copyright 1979-2010

Actually 1066 - 2010.

I mean it. Here in West Sussex there are some pretty old family Trust Funds.

I heard once that the oldest one in Britain is 800 years old? Sorry, I don't remember the source. Someone around here may know? ( Or have a little time to Google for it? :) )

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Actually 1066 - 2010.

I mean it. Here in West Sussex there are some pretty old family Trust Funds.

I heard once that the oldest one in Britain is 800 years old? Sorry, I don't remember the source. Someone around here may know? ( Or have a little time to Google for it? :) )

True, but then this inverted pyramid was not beneath a ton of unfunded liabilities and debt on a gargantuan scale.

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Strange chart, and surely significantly changed now.

Why strange?

Do you think ownership got more or less concentrated since 2003?

(1) Don't think the answer is a property tax though.

(2) The whole economy has to be redirected to production, rather than rent seeking.

(1) presses for (2).

Taxes can be used to punish undesirable activities.

No doubt that most of the upper 5% are largely wealthy from property investment themselves, a self perpetuating societal monster....

I would expect that inheritances are a large part of it. I am sure they find ways to avoid inheritance taxes, for instance via Family Trust Funds, tax havens, etc.

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Productive areas of economic activity do trickle down much more. But the hoarding of assets don't much.

including hoarding of money. houses and financial assets are all horded by the top 5%.

Thats what our society is about. high interest rates mean their financial assets accumulate value, and low rates means their housing assets accumulate value.

what is needed is not fiddling with rates to try and generate a crash that will put most of you out of a job and eat up all your savings, but rather some actual reform of the tax system combined with a re-invigoration of the private sector because a redistribution of wealth (not just here but in pretty much all OECD nations) is the only way to recover this capsised economy.

people like bogbrush think you can have a reinvigorated economy while the top few % have all the assets and purchasing power, but as several have pointed out that is trickle down BS.

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True, but then this inverted pyramid was not beneath a ton of unfunded liabilities and debt on a gargantuan scale.

I've found more data: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/7723561/Average-household-wealth-jumps-150000.html

Telegraph 15 May 2010

"Average household wealth jumps £150,000

The average household in Britain has seen its wealth jump more than £150,000 during the last half century, official figures have disclosed.

In 1959, typical household wealth – including equity in property, savings, pensions and shares – was the equivalent of £72,700 in today’s money. By last year, the figure had risen to £237,000."

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including hoarding of money. houses and financial assets are all horded by the top 5%.

Money and financial assets are a relative justice non issue because they are replaceable and we don't live and produce on them or in them. People who hoard houses and more specically land are quite literally hoarding other people's irreplaceable liberties and ability to be a productive members of society.

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Guest eight

Why strange?

Do you think ownership got more or less concentrated since 2003?

This is why Pathfinder is so - and I use the word advisedly - EVIL. The tiny amount of property that "the poor" do manage to get their claws on can often be forcibly removed from them, with joke compulsory purchase values insufficient to buy outright one of the replacement houses. And it's sold to them on the basis of being for their own benefit.

I've read somewhere that the removal of individual property rights for the masses is an extreme left wing philosophy; after the last 13 years I can well believe it. They've been encouraged to sell anything of real value that they might own (Got gold? Get CASH!!!!) just to fund their day to day existence.

eight

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That's not just Sussex. That is the entire country. (...)

Of course.

I've found more data:

article-1278511-0995EE79000005DC-630_233x270.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278511/Families-times-richer-1959.html

According to the BBC there are 25.5 million households in Britain. Therefore:

Average financial assets / household = £148,901

Average housing equity / household = £98,784

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=141630&view=findpost&p=2495009

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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I went to a lecture on inequality at the Royal Geographical Society yesterday given by Danny Dorling from the University of Sheffield. He's one of the country's leading experts on the subject. The general message of the lecture was that affluent societies with larger wealth inequalities are responsible for higher levels of ecological damage when compared to affluent societies with more equal wealth distributions.

In relation to the UK, wealth inequalities fell during the period 1918 to around 1970 at which point they went into reverse. Today the richest 10% of the British population now earn 13.8 times more than the poorest 10% and that gap is growing. In Western Europe only Portugal is more unequal. We are 50% more unequal than countries like Holland and Germany; twice as unequal as Norway and almost three times more unequal than Japan. On the bright side we are not as unequal as the US but in 13 years of Labour government the gap between ourselves and the US has shrunk by 25% as we become more unequal.

The lecture discussed many aspects of this data. For example, celebrity culture was more prevalent in unequal societies. Also, people seem more likely to accept growing inequality so long as they maintain their position in it relative to other people. In Professor Dorling's view the only effective way to reduce wealth inequality was to reduce the wealth of the rich (as opposed to increasing the wealth of the poor). Anecdotally I notice all my banker friends who threatened to move to Switzerland last year are still living in the UK. Anyway, I'd urge you to Google Danny Dorling's work as it's fascinating. His work calmly and rationally shows that this country's inequality is neither normal nor pre-determined.

Edited by Orsino

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Why strange?

Do you think ownership got more or less concentrated since 2003?

(1) presses for (2).

Taxes can be used to punish undesirable activities.

I would expect that inheritances are a large part of it. I am sure they find ways to avoid inheritance taxes, for instance via Family Trust Funds, tax havens, etc.

Well, I find it strange becuse I can't really understand what it is saying; ie is this total value of the property, homeowner equity, etc.

Significantly changed because house price inflation, since 2003, would have distorted it further.

My guess is that it is more concentrated now.

I don't like property taxes on main residences. It's OK for second homes. For BTL, there must be some happy medium that encourages productive use but discourages punishing the tenants.

Inheritance may be part of it but then you get the Fergus Wilson's of this world. Especially during bubbles.

Edited by Toto deVeer

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The chart is a bit old, but it does shed a little light on wealth distribution in Britain. (Source: HMRC)

Yep, source HMRC. So long as they help themselves to so much of our hard-earned, they ensure the way to acquire wealth is through anything but hard work.

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I went to a lecture on inequality at the Royal Geographical Society yesterday given by Danny Dorling from the University of Sheffield. He's one of the country's leading experts on the subject. The general message of the lecture was that affluent societies with larger wealth inequalities are responsible for higher levels of ecological damage when compared to affluent societies with more equal wealth distributions.

In relation to the UK, wealth inequalities fell during the period 1918 to around 1970 at which point they went into reverse. Today the richest 10% of the British population now earn 13.8 times more than the poorest 10% and that gap is growing. In Western Europe only Portugal is more unequal. We are 50% more unequal than countries like Holland and Germany; twice as unequal as Norway and almost three times more unequal than Japan. On the bright side we are not as unequal as the US but in 13 years of Labour government the gap between ourselves and the US has shrunk by 25% as we become more unequal.

The lecture discussed many aspects of this data. For example, celebrity culture was more prevalent in unequal societies. Also, people seem more likely to accept growing inequality so long as they maintain their position in it relative to other people. In Professor Dorling's view the only effective way to reduce wealth inequality was to reduce the wealth of the rich (as opposed to increasing the wealth of the poor). Anecdotally I notice all my banker friends who threatened to move to Switzerland last year are still living in the UK. Anyway, I'd urge you to Google Danny Dorling's work as it's fascinating. His work calmly and rationally shows that this country's inequality is neither normal nor pre-determined.

That's why I think that all citizens should be allowed a maximum wealth level, and everything above that should be returned to the people. Nobody can argue that they need more than a billion dollars, no matter how successful they are.

Yet we have situations like Mukesh Ambani, building a 2 billion dollar house in Mumbai, which has the largest slums in Asia. Disgusting.

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including hoarding of money. houses and financial assets are all horded by the top 5%.

Thats what our society is about. high interest rates mean their financial assets accumulate value, and low rates means their housing assets accumulate value.

what is needed is not fiddling with rates to try and generate a crash that will put most of you out of a job and eat up all your savings, but rather some actual reform of the tax system combined with a re-invigoration of the private sector because a redistribution of wealth (not just here but in pretty much all OECD nations) is the only way to recover this capsised economy.

people like bogbrush think you can have a reinvigorated economy while the top few % have all the assets and purchasing power, but as several have pointed out that is trickle down BS.

A top heavy distribution of property and wealth has existed for a very long time and did not cause the economic problems. Reckless credit expansion and a State out of control did. Trying to level out the distribution will not solve this. You cannot create wealth by dividing it.

Some people are sensible with money others are not. Educate those that are not rather than taking it off the sensible ones.

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Guest eight

A top heavy distribution of property and wealth has existed for a very long time and did not cause the economic problems. Reckless credit expansion and a State out of control did. Trying to level out the distribution will not solve this. You cannot create wealth by dividing it.

Some people are sensible with money others are not. Educate those that are not rather than taking it off the sensible ones.

Tell me then how somebody who his "sensible" with their £25k/annum (a very good wage in these parts) could ever purchase one house, let alone several, during their lifetime?

eight

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A top heavy distribution of property and wealth has existed for a very long time and did not cause the economic problems. Reckless credit expansion and a State out of control did.

Don't talk nonesense. It has caused absolutely no end of problems.

The absurd wealth distribution is actually part of the state. Most of the long standing wealth distribution problem is caused by the individual privilege to collect land rent which comes with our tenure system- which is a handed down state power.

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A top heavy distribution of property and wealth has existed for a very long time and did not cause the economic problems. Reckless credit expansion and a State out of control did. Trying to level out the distribution will not solve this. You cannot create wealth by dividing it.

Some people are sensible with money others are not. Educate those that are not rather than taking it off the sensible ones.

First user of the newly printed debt getsw the benefit. Mostly everybody else pays the bill, even more so when the first users are so reckless with it tey come back witht he begging bowls for their bets to be made good by the taxpayer.

All this has played a large part in the destruction of the industrial base of the country and forced ever more manufacturing and production of all types abroad.

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A top heavy distribution of property and wealth has existed for a very long time and did not cause the economic problems. Reckless credit expansion and a State out of control did. Trying to level out the distribution will not solve this. You cannot create wealth by dividing it.

Some people are sensible with money others are not. Educate those that are not rather than taking it off the sensible ones.

Our wealth inequalities DO play a part in our economic problems. Affluent countries with unequal wealth distributions consume more. This can clearly be seen, for example, by the level of household waste produced in unequal countries like the UK and the US compared to more equal countries like Sweden or Japan. People take more plane flights in unequal societies too. The reason? People struggle to emulate significantly more affluent lifestyles. They buy status products they don't want but feel they need in order to maintain their social status. How do they do this? By taking on debt. The UK accounts for 50% of all credit card debt in Western Europe - a staggering statistic. Reckless credit expansion and out-of-control public spending are inextricably linked to wealth inequality. We are bombarded with media messages saying this is the way it should be and there is no alternative but one only needs to look the other side of the Channel to see things can be different.

Edited by Orsino

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  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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