Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

swissy_fit

Anti-Depressants And Associated Drugs - Have You Taken Them?

Recommended Posts

Prompted by the long and admirably frank thread on this subject that was started in June last year and was on the first page this weekend.

I was quite surprised by the number of people on HPC who use or have used them. Mainly because I wouldn't consider it unless on the point of chucking myself off something high. I'm almost in the King Stromba camp on this one (the shame of it :rolleyes: ).

It's definitely not that I think GPs are in a conspiracy to ruin peoples lives for the benefit of big pharma, more that they are pressed for time in a field where time is required and need quick "solutions" so are drawn into prescribing them.

I was also curious to know if people think HPCers use them more than the general population.

Edit : even more rubbish grammar than usual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I self diagnose myself with OCD and other anxiety related disorders.

No doubt that SSRIs would help me. But I don't want to live in a haze for the rest of my life. I already do that for a few hours each day smoking weed! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK

I self diagnose myself with OCD and other anxiety related disorders.

No doubt that SSRIs would help me. But I don't want to live in a haze for the rest of my life. I already do that for a few hours each day smoking weed! :D

You won't live in a haze on SSRIs. What do you base that assumption on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You won't live in a haze on SSRIs. What do you base that assumption on?

My research and talking to others about being on them.

They are a daily dose, intended to keep you under the influence all the time. They may stop the paranoia and make you stress and react less to trivial things but they sure don't make you like a "normal" person.

Maybe "haze" is the wrong word, but they definitely affect you. Plus I don't want to risk discontinuation syndrome which is not at all uncommon. That tells me enough to avoid them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My research and talking to others about being on them.

They are a daily dose, intended to keep you under the influence all the time. They may stop the paranoia and make you stress and react less to trivial things but they sure don't make you like a "normal" person.

Maybe "haze" is the wrong word, but they definitely affect you. Plus I don't want to risk discontinuation syndrome which is not at all uncommon. That tells me enough to avoid them.

What is discontinuation syndrome like when applied to weed?

I guess you'll let us know that one when it happens! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is discontinuation syndrome like when applied to weed?

I guess you'll let us know that one when it happens! :)

Haha more like "if" :D

But seriously, withdrawing from SSRIs takes a long time and some will give you the sensation of electric shocks in the head. Just take a look at the class action lawsuits that have been going on for years.

I think weed is more a psychological addiction and SSRIs more chemical (I can't think what else could cause these symptoms).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK

Everyone's slightly different, but in my experience SSRIs do not result in living life in a haze. They work by blocking seratonin re-uptake, or put more basically...they don't allow the happy hormone to reduce too much. When changing the dosage it can result in dizzy spells (the electric shocks you referred to), so I'd agree that very gradual changes in dosage should be the order of the day if you want to avoid unpleasant side effects.

GPs use a question matrix to do a "quick and dirty" assessment of your level of anxiety or depression, which probably does a good job of initial diagnosis, but I'd agree that for longer term cures the pills probably won't work in isolation. Alas, the NHS can't afford to fund the therapists needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DestroyBrown

I think it's crazy that we're treating depression with drugs. In my opinion, the vast majority of depression is caused by life events.

Bereavement is stressful and temporary depression is a NORMAL response

Getting divorced " "

Losing your job " "

Moving house " "

and so on.

What I find interesting (or rather scary) about the drug route is that these things are prescribed, without any kind of test. The theory states that dopamine, noreprephine and serotonin all play a part in mood. How do they know which one, if any, is lacking? A broad spectrum drug would seem the best (like the old tricyclics) but for some reason they prefer the more specific SSRI's

The prescription for AD's is written after a quick chat with the patient. They don't prescribe iron tablets because you look a bit pale, they take a blood test first....and I'd rather take iron tablets unnecessarily than mind altering chemicals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think the proportion of people using these drugs on HPC reflects the proportion in the general population? -

Sorry, can't answer this question as I have no idea what the proportion of people on HPC use them - do you?

I was reading an article today in Moneyweek about the Beckhams - it was describing all the people who work for Victoria Beckham and finished talking about her by talking about her refusing, allegedly, to drink a cup of tea in hospital because it was made from tap water.

The article then finished with one small paragraph about David Beckham, allegedly, folding his clothes neatly repeatedly and other things because he apparently suffers from OCD.

Interesting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone's slightly different, but in my experience SSRIs do not result in living life in a haze. They work by blocking seratonin re-uptake, or put more basically...they don't allow the happy hormone to reduce too much. When changing the dosage it can result in dizzy spells (the electric shocks you referred to), so I'd agree that very gradual changes in dosage should be the order of the day if you want to avoid unpleasant side effects.

GPs use a question matrix to do a "quick and dirty" assessment of your level of anxiety or depression, which probably does a good job of initial diagnosis, but I'd agree that for longer term cures the pills probably won't work in isolation. Alas, the NHS can't afford to fund the therapists needed.

I've been on a mix of drugs for the last 18 months. SSRIs haven't left me living life in a haze, tho' they do appear to have caused bipolar like mood swings (normal-homicidal-suicidal-extrovert-hermit and back again - not necessarily in that order).

Mirtazipine, on the other hand, poured treacle right into my cranium and turned me into a bumbling zombie. I gather that this disappears at higher doses (action switches from serotonin to noradrenaline inhibition) but I never managed to get that far.

One thing I will note is that my latest SSRI has played havoc with my use of words - frequently can't remember basic words and especially names of objects (dog, cat, kalashnikov etc) tho mathematical abilities seem slightly elevated... odd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno if anyone has read Eckhart Tolle but I agree with much of what he says.

Anxiety related illnesses are as high as ever, seemingly a result of modern (western) life which is cr@p for most people.

Don't forget that in many countries there is no access to these drugs or therapy, and people still work, pay the bills etc. They can't get signed off work or anything like that. But probably, less people get anxiety too.

I think anxiety/depression related illness is a product of being obsessed with time, about the past but especially the future. Worried about this and that. "What ifs" etc.

Then of course, so many mental illnesses manifest themselves physically.

For example, being stressed gives high cortisol and high bp -> cardiovascular disease -> heart attacks and strokes.

Anxiety->sympathetic nervous system->conditions such as hyperhidrosis (excessive sweating)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's crazy that we're treating depression with drugs. In my opinion, the vast majority of depression is caused by life events.

Bereavement is stressful and temporary depression is a NORMAL response

Getting divorced " "

Losing your job " "

Moving house " "

and so on.

Catalysis is the process whereby an underlying nature is made manifest by some external agents interaction. I would respectly suggest substituting "caused" for "catalysed" in your expression above.

You have to remember that everyone is different. Some of us are more analytical, some more dextrous. Others are more thick skinned, some more sensitive. You only need consider Blair's ability to ignore the anti-war protests, Fred Goodwin's two finger salute to the British tax payer, or Andy Hornby's willingness to address the BRC to know that some folks simply don't feel the weight of the world as we might. Clearly there is a sliding scale ranging from these sorts all the way to the donkey sanctuary volunteers.

Once you accept this, you have to then ask whether it is fair to expect sensitive sorts to exist unaided in such a brutal world. We give treatments to those with cancer, we bail out those w/o financial accumen, provide extra teaching for the less intelligent, insist on ramps for the disabled, fund guide dogs for the blind. Should we not therefore give a few ssris to those amongst us who simply aren't capable of seeing the world as one huge, hedonistic amusement park?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest AuntJess

Catalysis is the process whereby an underlying nature is made manifest by some external agents interaction. I would respectly suggest substituting "caused" for "catalysed" in your expression above.

You have to remember that everyone is different. Some of us are more analytical, some more dextrous. Others are more thick skinned, some more sensitive. You only need consider Blair's ability to ignore the anti-war protests, Fred Goodwin's two finger salute to the British tax payer, or Andy Hornby's willingness to address the BRC to know that some folks simply don't feel the weight of the world as we might. Clearly there is a sliding scale ranging from these sorts all the way to the donkey sanctuary volunteers.

Once you accept this, you have to then ask whether it is fair to expect sensitive sorts to exist unaided in such a brutal world. We give treatments to those with cancer, we bail out those w/o financial accumen, provide extra teaching for the less intelligent, insist on ramps for the disabled, fund guide dogs for the blind. Should we not therefore give a few ssris to those amongst us who simply aren't capable of seeing the world as one huge, hedonistic amusement park?

I hear what you say, which is comparable to the individuality of pain thresholds: Some folk can stand more physical pain than others. I alas am NOT one of those, but I have had to learn to endure pain, due to an inability to take strong pain meds. In hospital recently I was a cause of concern as I was seriously ill, on taking drugs which some can toss down without blinking an eye.

As to protecting the sensitive souls by allowing them to down pills. Firstly I'd like to say that no power on earth would induce me to take SSRIs - Or MAOIs, the tricyclics are the safest, IMO. None of them are ideal but the broad spectrum tricyclics are better than SSRIs which target a narrower range, and at the risk of repeating myselfrolleyes.gif , we STILL don't know what is physically deficient in depression, or whether depression is caused by a shortage of A neurotransmitter in one bod, and B neuroT. in another. Even if that could be established, we are down to accurate dosage, as brain chemicals are delicately balanced substances.

We are told of the dangers of overdosing on vitamins and minerals, but mind-altering drugs seems to have an embargo operating.

Couldn't be that the multinationals in the pharmaceutucal industry have effectively gagged the media?dry.gif

You speak of sensitive souls. I have met them... by the bucketload, sitting across from me in an armchair, zombi-like and listless. were they depressed? YES. but they had been on meds of all sorts and the GPs sent them to someone like me to see if I could help. I cynically thought that I got them when THEY could do nowt and any failure would be down to me.

I found that one of the things I had to do was get them OFF what they were on - in some cases - as the 'cure'rolleyes.gif was proving worse than the ailment.

My answer is this. Incidents of depression are largely caused by life events: some unavoidable, others not so. It means a change in lifestyle to get a brighter perspective. Changing a lifestyle takes effort and time and in this instant result world no one wants to wait.

We'd have a LOT better result if instead of pumping folk full of drugs and paying the Pharm. industry billions, that the employer for example - gave them 8 weeks off work and the state paid for a 'holiday' at some tranquil retreat, where they could regain their equilibrium, plus receiving counselling/OT on how to rectify their lives/change their jobs etc.

I once had a lass come to see me and every time we met she spent the WHOLE time crying and getting angry, at this, that and t'other. One of my colleagues remarked as she watched her leave the building, eyes swollen with crying. " that girl is getting through some stuff" ...and she was. She was willing to confront her demons and flush out the years of misery. Not easy...often very painful, but I am glad to say that her willingness to address her problems ended very well indeed. After weeks of this she was able to replan her life and left me armed with a new approach to her life, a training course in summat she always wanted to do, and had managed to shed an unsuitable partner.

We are all afraid of pain - physical or emotional - and rightly so. But pain tells us summat about ourselves. It provides information. It tells us what we should/should not be doing: It tells us when something is wrong. We need to find the courage to act on this, however scary it may initially be. It may just be a question of having a cry, or telling someone we won't stand for anymore of what they dish out.

Taking an anaesthetic to distance you from your problems is very appealing, but the problems remain when you emerge from it. AntiDs work 'cos they give you a respite, but can also just delay dealing with an emotion. One woman who had started taking AntiDs after her Mum died - stupid GP who gave them to her; I thought everyone know there is no avoiding grief , Shakespeare did** - ended up in my consulting room.

She was furious that I was not going to give her an even better pill than the GP and she refused to address the issue of her mum's death, some two years earlier. The depression she now had - in spades - was a result of not ventilating the emotions after the bereavement.

Mind-altering drugs are only to be use in cases of severe depression, for example, where dreadful things in very early childhood have affected the individual: Often pre-language. What is then needed is lengthy psychotherapy - mere counselling isn't enough.

All this o'course costs money, but in the long run it IS cheaper, as a lifetime on habit-forming drugs. which is what some folk are heading for, is costing the taxpayer a great deal more money.

**William Shakespeare Give sorrow words. The grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-fraught heart, and bids it break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK

Counselling isn't the only answer, just as anti-depressants aren't the only answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DestroyBrown

Stupid isn't it. A possible side effect of certain AD's is suicidal thoughts. I wonder if Immodium has a side effect of diarrhoea?

I think AJ touched on something intersting though - why isn't the 'cure' for depression some kind of tranquil retreat?

In a similar way to Lemsip being the cure for Flu, rather than just bedrest, are we wasting time with AD's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DestroyBrown

Counselling isn't the only answer, just as anti-depressants aren't the only answer.

Some might say that the end of the Labour govt is an anti depressant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counselling isn't the only answer, just as anti-depressants aren't the only answer.

Here's a question for you, Aunt Jess.

How many people from the WW2 generation have you counselled, ie those that fought in it or worked in fields/munitions factories or were children with ration books etc?

To me, that generation appear to have been better mentally equipped to deal with their lives than subsequent ones. I was wondering if this is reflected in your work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK

Here's a question for you, Aunt Jess.

How many people from the WW2 generation have you counselled, ie those that fought in it or worked in fields/munitions factories or were children with ration books etc?

To me, that generation appear to have been better mentally equipped to deal with their lives than subsequent ones. I was wondering if this is reflected in your work.

They just topped themselves back then. Seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

They just topped themselves back then. Seriously.

I expect they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Govt was expecting many millions of people to suffer from anxiety and depression during WW2 that they built loads of hospitals in the countryside for them. However, a far, far fewer number of people suffered which came as a shock to the Govt shrinks.

Apparently people did one of two things.

1. They got terrified for 6 weeks or so, a few months at most, and then realised that they could not carry on living like that, shrugged their shoulders and carried on.

2. They blew their brains out.

I think the continous nature of stress today in our modern lives is the big issue - long dangerous and stressful commute, mortgage and oher bill worries, fear of losing jobs, working longer and longer hours in the office, being on call via email and your mobile. None of it is healthy or condusive to a good, happy life.

Add some divorce in there, caring for sick relatives, etc and it is a receipe for stress, anxiety & depression... and worse...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.