Educate The Young About Finance!

[DonnieDarker]

Apologies if this has been done before, but would it not be a good idea for school/college kids to sit a compulsory class in basic finances.

Surely this could replace/make up a large part of General Studies.

It seems to me that the time you are most likley to c0ck up in the house market is as a FTB with no experience besides asking mum and dad for their views.

Of course this "education" would not be limited to housing but could cover shares, investments etc etc.

Some may say that the Gov has a vetsed ineterst in keeping the young financially ignorant. I wouldnt not be surprised in the slightest if kids at private schools get this kind of education though.

Thoughts?

[JustYield]

Apologies if this has been done before, but would it not be a good idea for school/college kids to sit a compulsory class in basic finances.

Surely this could replace/make up a large part of General Studies.

It seems to me that the time you are most likley to c0ck up in the house market is as a FTB with no experience besides asking mum and dad for their views.

Of course this "education" would not be limited to housing but could cover shares, investments etc etc.

Some may say that the Gov has a vetsed ineterst in keeping the young financially ignorant. I wouldnt not be surprised in the slightest if kids at private schools get this kind of education though.

Thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The economy requires ignorant masses. Ignorance is relative of course.

JY

[theChuz]

Apologies if this has been done before, but would it not be a good idea for school/college kids to sit a compulsory class in basic finances.

Surely this could replace/make up a large part of General Studies.

It seems to me that the time you are most likley to c0ck up in the house market is as a FTB with no experience besides asking mum and dad for their views.

Of course this "education" would not be limited to housing but could cover shares, investments etc etc.

Some may say that the Gov has a vetsed ineterst in keeping the young financially ignorant. I wouldnt not be surprised in the slightest if kids at private schools get this kind of education though.

Thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I honestly think that working out tangents and using cos and sin, basically geometery, oh and algebra should be dropped from the maths syllabus and replaced with life finance.

Of course geometry and algebra have there place but most people will never use either, you dont need to know how to use PI to work out the area/volumes of circles/cylinders.

EVERYBODY who intends on becomming an independant adult needs an understanding of life finance.

Life finance should also cover marketing stratagy - how people try and part you with your money, how to round up and down quickly, how to budget properly, how to work out percentage increases/decreases, what a mortgage is how its calculated... things like that.

and to be honest i do think there is a maybe somewhat unconcious understanding that the majority of people will be thick... we cant all be rich now can we.

[Marina]

They ought to teach children the basics like reading, writing and arithmetic before moving on to the tricky stuff.

The standard of literacy today is appalling.

You are not taught algebra and geometry in school because you will need them in later life. You are taught them to stretch your brain, to develop the power to reason and problem solve. These are skills you need in life.

Edited August 22, 2005 by Marina

[theChuz]

They ought to teach children the basics like reading, writing and arithmetic before moving on to the tricky stuff.

The standard of literacy today is appalling.

You are not taught algebra and geometry in school because you will need them in later life. You are taught them to stretch your brain, to develop the power to reason and problem solve. These are skills you need in life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair comment on both points although stretching a childs mind with algebra and geometry is like stretchy an elastic band, when you let go it returns to its normal state of rest (unless you over extend it then bad things can happen or it might learn).

I just think that time would be better spent drumming home the information they are going to need in life, maybe colleges and Uni's could do the stretching.

but yea before all this ... basics.

[200p]

Dont they teach finances already in Business Studies GCSE????? I learnt how to calculate interest, how loans work, savings, marketing etc....

I dont believe teaching life finances at below GCSE level is going to work if it is going to be a core part of maths. How many school children have lots of pocket money to spend - the fact is they are still are at school and dont work and dont really realise the true value of money.

Lifes funny like that - we have to make a mistake first before we learn.

[Dicky]

LIFE will teach them.

But that will prove to be an expensive way to learn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The University of life now charge tuition fees, either way is now expenive

[Gravity's Rainbow]

Apologies if this has been done before, but would it not be a good idea for school/college kids to sit a compulsory class in basic finances.

I agree completely DD. Given the easy availability of credit and that more and more young people are finding themselves in tens of thousands debt by their early 20s, I reckon financial education is an urgent priority.

One of the ways the rich perpetuate themselves is by giving their off-spring a sound education about money. Many of the sons and daughters of the wealthy I’ve met have a miserly attitude towards spending that can verge on being mean. From an early age they were taught the value of money and to “look after the pennies, and the pounds look after themselves”.

However I also think the way we talk about finance and money has to be about more than just a narrow focus on the usual subjects like savings vs borrowing, the compounding effect of interest, types of investment, market cycles, tax efficiency, etc, etc.

Financial education has to incorporate more searching questions about the nature of success, one’s values and goals beyond consumerism and the importance of realising the limitations of money as a way of achieving happiness if it is to engage children.

There is a vast advertising industry pitted against young people telling them they need to buy this product, take out this loan, spend £500 each on stag nights to keep up with their mates, etc. The education system has a role to play in inoculating people against the consumerist onslaught.

[theChuz]

Dont they teach finances already in Business Studies GCSE????? I learnt how to calculate interest, how loans work, savings, marketing etc....

I dont believe teaching life finances at below GCSE level is going to work if it is going to be a core part of maths. How many school children have lots of pocket money to spend - the fact is they are still are at school and dont work and dont really realise the true value of money.

Lifes funny like that - we have to make a mistake first before we learn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with not going lower than GCSE, but yoru talking about an optional Business Studies GCSE, maths is mandatory so if it was wrote into the maths syllabus then people couldnt opt-out.

I didnt do business studies , i chose german because i fancied the german teacher, funny how that happens at that age

Has to be mandatory.

Life will always teach the hard and most painful way.

[200p]

How about a small subject called - "Skills for life" or something like that, which is mandatory when children do GCSEs.

1. Deals with Sex

2. Relationships

3. Morals; Right and Wrong

4. Finances

5. Basic Healthcare/Lifestyle choices

6. First Aid

7. Avoiding Scams

8. Health and Safety

And anything else thats useful....

Edited August 22, 2005 by trev

[Dicky]

I agree with not going lower than GCSE, but yoru talking about an optional Business Studies GCSE, maths is mandatory so if it was wrote into the maths syllabus then people couldnt opt-out.

I didnt do business studies , i chose german because i fancied the german teacher, funny how that happens at that age 

Has to be mandatory.

Life will always teach the hard and most painful way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saw the latest GCSE maths paper, apparently if you can change the battery in your calculator you're given an C grade, A grades are set aside for those who can demonstrate a little bit more like switching it on a pointing to the % sign.

[Marina]

Fair comment on both points although stretching a childs mind with algebra and geometry is like stretchy an elastic band, when you let go it returns to its normal state of rest (unless you over extend it then bad things can happen or it might learn).

I just think that time would be better spent drumming home the information they are going to need in life, maybe colleges and Uni's could do the stretching.

but yea before all this ... basics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too late for the stretching by the time they are uni age. If you get a bright kid at primary school, you can teach them anything. I don't believe that once stretched your brain goes back - maybe a bit if you don't use it - but I'm grateful for the education I received (apart from the beatings bit of it). I'm still learning new skills all the time - and ones that require a bit of effort too.

[dude]

Excellent idea!

You're an FTB, wanting to buy that super broom cupboard for 200k. Now, given your combined income of 25k how may years into retirement will you be before you can call it your own?

Just as important, if not more important, is the attitute to debt. Once upon a time (30+ years ago) debt was bad, or at least frowned upon. You lived within your means. Now debt is not only acceptable, it is the way the economy works.

You want to go to college, get into debt. Need a car, it must be cool, flashy with the latest satnav (or an enormous gas guzzling juggernaut). Need a house...

So get more life skills into schools, but get the wider society to question things too.

[Marina]

How about a small subject called - "Skills for life" or something like that, which is mandatory when children do GCSEs.

1. Deals with Sex

2. Relationships

3. Morals; Right and Wrong

4. Finances

5. Basic Healthcare/Lifestyle choices

6. First Aid

7. Avoiding Scams

8. Health and Safety

And anything else thats useful....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLEASE, instead of 'Health and Safety' let's have 'Danger'.

I am going to explode soon - I keep reading signs that say 'Due to Health and Safety we are not allowed to sell home-made cakes at the fete'. Oh please God, kids can't climb trees - Health and Safety - can't play conkers - Health and Safety isn't it bach?

If they must say it why can't they say 'Due to Health and Safety concerns' but this little three word expression 'Health and Safety' is now working its way into our language as a reason to not allow any fun.

Let's change it to Danger.

Playing conkers is very, very, very, very, mildly dangerous so you might want to wear goggles and a leather gauntlet and put one hand in front of your testicles - or - you might want to TAKE A TINY CHANCE that you will get mildly hurt.

Eating one of these home made cakes exposes you to a 1 in 10 million chance of food poisoning. Pay your money and take your chances.

[theChuz]

PLEASE, instead of 'Health and Safety' let's have 'Danger'.

I am going to explode soon - I keep reading signs that say 'Due to Health and Safety we are not allowed to sell home-made cakes at the fete'. Oh please God, kids can't climb trees - Health and Safety - can't play conkers - Health and Safety isn't it bach?

If they must say it why can't they say 'Due to Health and Safety concerns' but this little three word expression 'Health and Safety' is now working its way into our language as a reason to not allow any fun.

Let's change it to Danger.

Playing conkers is very, very, very, very, mildly dangerous so you might want to wear goggles and a leather gauntlet and put one hand in front of your testicles - or - you might want to TAKE A TINY CHANCE that you will get mildly hurt.

Eating one of these home made cakes exposes you to a 1 in 10 million chance of food poisoning. Pay your money and take your chances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Partly the nanny mentality but also partly the 'american' mentality.. you could probably sue someone if thier conker broke your conker and went in thier eye when you later find out that the baked the conker and used varnish on it.

Since the game was subject to a verbal contract and was assumed to be of the same preporaty standands of both parties the person in possession of the varnished conker has breached the contract and now the accusing party suffers night-terrors. Compensation would be in order.

You can be sued for just about anything... trip over someones bag that shouldnt of been there ... makes me a little annoyed.

[Guest The dude]

Excellent idea!

You're an FTB, wanting to buy that super broom cupboard for 200k. Now, given your combined income of 25k how may years into retirement will you be before you can call it your own?

Just as important, if not more important, is the attitute to debt. Once upon a time (30+ years ago) debt was bad, or at least frowned upon. You lived within your means. Now debt is not only acceptable, it is the way the economy works.

You want to go to college, get into debt. Need a car, it must be cool, flashy with the latest satnav (or an enormous gas guzzling juggernaut). Need a house...

So get more life skills into schools, but get the wider society to question things too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Howdy Dude...The Dude here! Welcome aboard.....I agree with the points you made. My point is I think it's not just the young who need lessons in Finance...there are a lot of Adults out there who are up to their eyeballs in debt as well.

[madenph]

I'm tickled by the idea that schools may soon be teaching Health and Safety / Danger, whilst next door in the chemistry lab groups of unruly kids in short sleeved shirts are boiling up glass bottles of acid on unstable bunsen burners on wooden desks for the spurious experiment of timing how long they take to cool down again.

For me The Chuz called it correctly earlier, even I as a computer programmer have no need for knowing how to manually calculate eg the volume of a cylinder. Can anyone name a profession that does?

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

Saw the latest GCSE maths paper, apparently if you can change the battery in your calculator you're given an C grade, A grades are set aside for those who can demonstrate a little bit more like switching it on a pointing to the % sign.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An example of my 11+ arithmetic examination 1952.

No calculators then.

A rectangular plot of land measuring 160 yards long and 77 yards wide costs a purchaser £140 95p. If this price includes the cost of fencing at 5p per yard and £5 25p for legal expenses at what price per acre is the land itself being sold.

Converted the money from imperial to decimal.

Edited August 22, 2005 by Charlie The Tramp

[Guest growl]

When I was at school. When they still had O levels CSE and 16+ and A levels back in the eighties. You could do a 16+ or O level in 'Social Economics'. Now you didn't have to be brilliant at maths but that is where I learnt about banking, debt, how to use a cheque book, how to work out interest in its various forms. The big 4..which I believe at the time was the Natwest, Lloyds, Barclays and TSB and how they worked at earning money from your money, and how they invested. It also gave you trends. Past trends financialy and were they were heading, and it taught you about mortgages.

I remember that part about mortgages as I had an argument with the teacher, since the idiot would not believe that my parents had bought our house with cash and that we could not posibly own property without a mortgage. But they were a different generation who didn't believe in debt of any kind.

Now obviously things have changed and I'm not sure whether this subject even exists in its form of a modern GCSE. Also to my reckoning banks behave differently as I've said in other threads.

But if it was updated and made mandatory. I believe Social Economics would be a brilliant subject for those in their final years at school.

As for cooking, changing a plug and stuff like that. Home economics covered all that...or was it domestic science...how the years flow one into another.

[theChuz]

An example of my 11+ arithmetic examination 1952.

No calculators then. 

A rectangular plot of land measuring 160 yards long and 77 yards wide costs a purchaser £140 95p. If this price includes the cost of fencing at 5p per yard and £5 25p for legal expenses at what price per acre is the land itself being sold. 

Converted the money from imperial to decimal. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like beans.

[Marina]

Partly the nanny mentality but also partly the 'american' mentality.. you could probably sue someone if thier conker broke your conker and went in thier eye when you later find out that the baked the conker and used varnish on it.

Since the game was subject to a verbal contract and was assumed to be of the same preporaty standands of both parties the person in possession of the varnished conker has breached the contract and now the accusing party suffers night-terrors. Compensation would be in order.

You can be sued for just about anything... trip over someones bag that shouldnt of been there ... makes me a little annoyed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surely each party should simply sign a disclaimer before starting the game stating that they have, or have not, put their conker in an oven, varnished it etc.

I would have thought a simple list with about 10 check boxes would suffice and that a third party (child) could easily be found to witness the signatures. Surely at the right time of year (coming soon come to think of it) The Beano could publish a list that everyone could photocopy? I'll drop a line to the ed now.

We used to put ours in a range. A dirty trick because it really slow baked them and they turned out like lumps of steel. I used it once to smash another kid's conker and it went splat and a lump of conker hit him in the cheek. He lost the plot and tried to punch me in the face. I reacted and used my conker line as a garotte.

I'd like to take back my comments on Health and Safety. Conkers should be banned immediately and because of health and safety all horse chestnut trees should be destroyed.

I think the thread above has finally convinced me I need some time away ... catch you later if I cannot resist the tempation.

[theChuz]

We used to put ours in a range. A dirty trick because it really slow baked them and they turned out like lumps of steel. I used it once to smash another kid's conker and it went splat and a lump of conker hit him in the cheek. He lost the plot and tried to punch me in the face. I reacted and used my conker line as a garotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That actually made me laugh out loud ahhh to be a kid again, getting slightly hurt is all part of being a kid, getting a Noogie off your older brother for not doing exactly what he said... kneeling down behind someone so your mate can push them over... that is what it means to be alive!

[200p]

Dont forget:

1. Witness by 3rd party / solicitor

2. Adequate personal indemity insurance covering both parties incase of injury / damage

3. Pass a nationally accepted test for the game of conquers; regulated by the Royal Conker Society GB.

[Guest growl]

How about a small subject called - "Skills for life" or something like that, which is mandatory when children do GCSEs.

1. Deals with Sex

2. Relationships

3. Morals; Right and Wrong

4. Finances

5. Basic Healthcare/Lifestyle choices

6. First Aid

7. Avoiding Scams

8. Health and Safety

And anything else thats useful....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parents should teach many of the above. Morals from birth. But I fear that many of them don't even see their children enough and it is left to child minders, then the schooling system. This is the problem.

The thing is education should work in partnership with parents with regard to teaching children life skills.

There is too much emphasis by schools to get the children to pass exams, to get them through a long education system, that normally ends in their early twenties. Then they may have lots of facts and figures in their head but no financial or common sense in which to apply what they have learnt.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

There is a board game called cashflow for kids that aims to help children learn about finance and investing - the adult version is called cashflow - see www.richdad.com