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apom

Lie To Buy.

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Okay.

I have discussed that the economy can't support house prices and the burden of debt sucking away at the rest of the countries financies.

also that the debt burden is crippling the people, but that the increased cost of homes have been allowed by the debt bubble..

but how are people affording the loans..?

Surely sensible borrowing limits would also have capped prices...? at the end of the day a £190,000 flat would be out of reach to all but the fantastically well paid..

over £54,000 if 3.5 times the salary was all that was available.

so what happened..?

Read this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3478635.stm

figures released for 2004 showed that !/3rd of all mortage lending was "income non verified" and 1/5 of all mortgage debt had never had income verified against the borrowing.

So, we are all competing in a market where there is no cap on the amount you can borrow.

Should this be stopped?

report it on this site.

http://www.sfo.gov.uk/cases/guidance.asp

after all this fraud has been reported to have allowed the boom to continue for the last three years..

with £600,000,000,000 more overal debt in this time it is likely that this could be called serious.

have it stopped and protect those who may be about to make a massive mistake.

the crash now seems innevitable. some are not aware of this.

Edited by apom

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Okay.

I have discussed that the economy can't support house prices and the burden of debt sucking away at the rest of the countries financies.

also that the debt burden is crippling the people, but that the increased cost of homes have been allowed by the debt bubble..

but how are people affording the loans..?

Surely sensible borrowing limits would also have capped prices...? at the end of the day a £190,000 flat would be out of reach to all but the fantastically well paid..

over £54,000 if 3.5 times the salary was all that was available.

so what happened..?

Read this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3478635.stm

figures released for 2004 showed that !/3rd of all mortage lending was "income non verified" and 1/5 of all mortgage debt had never had income verified against the borrowing.

So, we are all competing in a market where there is no cap on the amount you can borrow.

Should this be stopped?

report it on this site.

http://www.sfo.gov.uk/cases/guidance.asp

after all this fraud has been reported to have allowed the boom to continue for the last three years..

with £600,000,000,000 more overal debt in this time it is likely that this could be called serious.

have it stopped and protect those who may be about to make a massive mistake.

the crash now seems innevitable. some are not aware of this.

Short term sadly the government may not want it stopped because of the effects on retailers, feelgood factor etc...

S.

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Short term sadly the government may not want it stopped because of the effects on retailers, feelgood factor etc...

S.

we could stop it... here and now..

if it was stopped it would remove the affordability of current house prices.

you want a crash?

it is now possible.

the government may not want it stopped.

but they also don't want a crash and will do all they can to avoid it.

don't give them the time..

If all of us here reported this crime and just supplied a link then the weight may force the hands of those in power..

Remember, this is illegal and the goverment is still governed by their own laws.

and if those making the decision not to investigate own a property then they are complicit to a fraud that they are profiting from.

They are breaking the law.

this is the power of the crash in our hands.. could we please use the power..

you are aware of the fraud now. although you are not profiting from it, you are guilty of being complicit.

you are breaking the law in not getting exactly what you claim to want.

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we could stop it... here and now..

if it was stopped it would remove the affordability of current house prices.

you want a crash?

it is now possible.

the government may not want it stopped.

but they also don't want a crash and will do all they can to avoid it.

don't give them the time..

If all of us here reported this crime and just supplied a link then the weight may force the hands of those in power..

Remember, this is illegal and the goverment is still governed by their own laws.

and if those making the decision not to investigate own a property then they are complicit to a fraud that they are profiting from.

They are breaking the law.

this is the power of the crash in our hands.. could we please use the power..

you are aware of the fraud now. although you are not profiting from it, you are guilty of being complicit.

you are breaking the law in not getting exactly what you claim to want.

I know of no cases personally, although I have read about lying mortgage applicants, enough to believe it happens a lot. As a cynic, if the figures became embarrassing then the government would change the basis of monitoring, smear the monitors or otherwise bury them.

S.

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Cool.

we claim to want a crash..

To be able to afford a home..

We are running against fraud when we try to enter the market.

why does no one want this stopped.

??????????

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Cool.

we claim to want a crash..

To be able to afford a home..

We are running against fraud when we try to enter the market.

why does no one want this stopped.

??????????

The people who do want it stopped are less powerful than the people who don't I suspect...

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okay..

35,000 have now seen that video..

(superb....)

if 35,000 approached the authorities..

do the maths..

here is morehttp://www.alansteel.com/archives/articles_quotes.aspx?id=67

don't be a bunch of slackers..

get on it.

I have already been asked for more information from the serious fraud squad.

I have supplied the two links.

asked them to get the NI numbers from "income non verified" lenders and asked them to compare this against taxable income.

Go on.. take a chance.

Just need a couple of replies and the BBC is still intersted

Edited by apom

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This housing bubble could not have happened without connivance between the government and the lending industry.

This New Labour government is even more corrupt than the Conservatives were. Legislating to stop irrisponsible lending was and is possible, indeed it is only the lacked lending criteria that enabled this boom to happen in the first place.

Seven bullets in the back of the head, or a life time in debt to the "money lenders" Welcome to Blairs Britain

Edited by Catch22

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Profound comments and whistfull speculation aside I have supplied an actual route toward what we want..

I am fed up with being in a market where I have to compete with people prepared to commit fraud.

I honestly think that for the most part those who read this don't actually care.

youare only as powerless as you allow yourself to be.

waiting has saved you 10% of previous costs as offers are now being accepted.

that is over £10,000..

Imagine what would happend if you actually did something and people could only borrow 3.5 times again..

its your dream.. sometimes you have to earn it.

one link, fill in the form.. add the two links I supplied and if enough do it.

we are where we want to be

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Profound comments and whistfull speculation aside I have supplied an actual route toward what we want..

I am fed up with being in a market where I have to compete with people prepared to commit fraud.

I honestly think that for the most part those who read this don't actually care.

youare only as powerless as you allow yourself to be.

waiting has saved you 10% of previous costs as offers are now being accepted.

that is over £10,000..

Imagine what would happend if you actually did something and people could only borrow 3.5 times again..

its your dream.. sometimes you have to earn it.

one link, fill in the form.. add the two links I supplied and if enough do it.

we are where we want to be

It's possible that the lack of feedback on this is due to many forum members waiting for prices to drop so they can buy the place of their dreams on a fraudulent self-cert mortgage.

They are just waiting to get a property that makes the fraud worthwhile.

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Profound comments and whistfull speculation aside I have supplied an actual route toward what we want..

I am fed up with being in a market where I have to compete with people prepared to commit fraud.

I honestly think that for the most part those who read this don't actually care.

youare only as powerless as you allow yourself to be.

waiting has saved you 10% of previous costs as offers are now being accepted.

that is over £10,000..

Imagine what would happend if you actually did something and people could only borrow 3.5 times again..

its your dream.. sometimes you have to earn it.

one link, fill in the form.. add the two links I supplied and if enough do it.

we are where we want to be

apom

when i read the report it became much clearer what has been happening and how some people have manged to afford such expensive properties.

i am not fussed about reporting people.

i believe that this will self correct with lenders becoming nervous and borrowers realising that there is no point over paying for assets declining in value.

yes it is irrespsonsible but where there is a profit to be made some wil epxloit it and others will get suckered.

i have similar reservations about IO mortgaes . the borrowers in most cases will never repay the debt and after the crash will have negative equity for eons.

again , when the message hits home it will come to an end.

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Well I tried...

If lie to buy was stopped then the market would be full of people only able to afford normal multiples..

Its a lot of good trying to sell your ine bed flat in stabsville for £130,000 if you need someone on about £37,000 a year to buy it..

you want normalised house prices

do something about it.

you want house prices to drop without a massive recession..

This may give that a possibility.

if all of the members onthis site who claimed to want lower house prices did as I suggested then we would have lower house prices.

you think you are powerless.. there are tens of thousands who read this site..

That is not powerless.

we would only be insisting that the police do as they are obligated under the law to do.

I tried, and I will keep pushing.

It appears that I have only one other voice with me, according to this thread.

If you see in the news that this was stopped and that it was anything to do with one guy standing alone I would say that you do not deserve a home.

you are for the most part sheep, bleating about how unfair it all is, but too lasy to take an interest in helping fix it.

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Apom : you are to be congratulated for making the effort you have done with this.If I knew of someone to report, I would!!!I identify massively with your principles i.e. the current state of apathy, with an 'every man/woman for himself' and 'at any cost' mentality that has led to this situation in the first place.

It is clear that wholescale fraud is going on to support the market - there's no way hardly anyone I know could afford a 130,000k mortgage, let alone anything more.Whenever I speculate about who is paying these prices to friends/family, I usually get a shrug but no appraisal of how/why people are able to do so is offered, and no views on whether people think this is an acceptable situation.Seems there's a lot of ostriches as well as sheep out there....

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Whilst agreeing that enforced credit controls are essential in a properly managed economy, there is no real evidence yet that people, en-masse, have been taking out mortgages they cannot afford.

Those that have have taken a risk - something most people entering the housing market have done over the years. Maybe they are taking a bit more of a risk than my generation used to - though mortgage fraud is as old as the hills.

Maybe there are enough people earning high wages who can afford the limited supply of property on the market at any one time.

When I was young I worked with a sikh. He owned a number of houses in East London. Saw him one Monday morning and asked what he had been up to at the weekend. 'Bought another house' was the answer. 'How did you manage that?' I asked. In those days there were strict mortgage lending controls in place.

'First time buyer!' he replied, laughing.

'But you own half a dozen houses already - how do you get a mortgage?'

'There are a lot of people called Singh in this country - no-one ever checks.'

My point being that even in a credit regulated environment, people always find a way around the regulations.

Often think about Singh, I knew him in the late 70s. Bet he owns 50 houses now, set up for life, driving around in a big Merc. Wonder why I didn't do it as well.

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The people I know who have bought recently as FTBs are either joining up with other FTBs and buyng a share in a property each taking out a mortgage 3.5 times their income or sole purchasers buying crap properties in places where they would not otherwise want to live at prices which are double what they were in 2002.

I am not aware of anyone using a self certification mortgage.

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Unfortunately, I have seen this with my own eyes. Someone I know self-certed as an "IT consultant" with an annual income of 50K. Even with this an inheritence of 40K was needed to buy the house they were interested in (3 bed semi). The ironic thing is at the time **they did not even have a job**. At the present time they have an income, but because they are not a graduate (and based on real job description) I would expect it to be around 15K (certainly less than 20K). The amazing thing is what comes next. In order to pay the mortgage they let the house out (I asked if this is okay with mortgage lender and they said, noone can find out) and after a year had it revalued. Based on thisequity they were allowed to buy-to-let another two bed flat. And of course they have a BMW X4 parked on the drive :o Had to get this off my chest. The interesting thing is that other than this the person has reasonable moral values.

Now their best friend saw all this happening and saw how easy it was. They have now done the same thing, and I have reason to believe that this persons income is even less than 15K. I think an inheretence is also involved here, but couldn't be sure.

:ph34r:

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The point is that for the most part the BOE has always striven to limit lending to less then 4 times the salary.

this is an amount that they see suportable by the economy and also re-payable across interest rates fluctuation. They do not want you to owe any more.. they want enough of your salary left to remain circulating in the economy.

Currently although interest rates are low, fixed rate lenders are moving their base fixed rate upwards as an increase in innevitable IN THE EYES OF THE LENDERS

we don't need to report individual cases, Clobbering one poor sap is not the way forward.

Stopping it from continuing is.

We don't need patsys to sacrifice to make it look like it is being stopped. We just need it stopped.

As simple as that..

If no one could use this route who was not actually self employed..

house prices would drop over night..

(well quickly... anyway.)

You want cheaper houses.

Go to the Police serious fraud link supplied in my first post to report the BBC link and Alan Steel link.

This fraud is stopping you from being able to go home tonight.. Close your own door behind you.. settle down in your sofa and plan a future.

7 years ago you could afford a small flat in Devon if you worked in a supermarket.. now I can just about afforst it as a technical consultant.

STOP THE FRAUD.

if 300 people pushed this.. could it be ignored..? If we all did.. could it be ignored..?

Just do it..

This could be the answer.. this could mean you could have a home.

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The point is that for the most part the BOE has always striven to limit lending to less then 4 times the salary.

this is an amount that they see suportable by the economy and also re-payable across interest rates fluctuation. They do not want you to owe any more.. they want enough of your salary left to remain circulating in the economy.

Currently although interest rates are low, fixed rate lenders are moving their base fixed rate upwards as an increase in innevitable IN THE EYES OF THE LENDERS

we don't need to report individual cases, Clobbering one poor sap is not the way forward.

Stopping it from continuing is.

We don't need patsys to sacrifice to make it look like it is being stopped. We just need it stopped.

As simple as that..

If no one could use this route who was not actually self employed..

house prices would drop over night..

(well quickly... anyway.)

You want cheaper houses.

Go to the Police serious fraud link supplied in my first post to report the BBC link and Alan Steel link.

This fraud is stopping you from being able to go home tonight.. Close your own door behind you.. settle down in your sofa and plan a future.

7 years ago you could afford a small flat in Devon if you worked in a supermarket.. now I can just about afforst it as a technical consultant.

STOP THE FRAUD.

if 300 people pushed this.. could it be ignored..? If we all did.. could it be ignored..?

Just do it..

This could be the answer.. this could mean you could have a home.

Have you considered going to the press with this? I'm sure there is an investigative journalist out there willing to put in the work and come up with some evidence.

Maybe a covert operation with hidden cameras to trap BTLers in the pub bragging about their empires and the fraud they used to get them?

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I think this is much more common than we might think. Especially down here in Cornwall with lots of self employed earning a pittance... We've often been told by well meaning friends etc. to 'Why don't you just do a self-cert' everybody does it! We've also been advised to take out IO mortgage.. Madness...

PS. My partner is self employed, so we could have done, but we know what we can afford to pay and refuse to get sucked into debts we cannot afford to pay back.

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Its a criminal offense to lie about your income to obtain a mortgage.

Just wonder if we are going to see people investigated and taken to court over obtaining money in this way.

It could turn nasty if criminal prosecutions start on people who are defaulting on mortgages and have obtained mortgages in this manner.

This may be how the banks will retaliate to people defaulting on loans/mortgages.

:unsure:

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Its a criminal offense to lie about your income to obtain a mortgage.

Just wonder if we are going to see people investigated and taken to court over obtaining money in this way.

It could turn nasty if criminal prosecutions start on people who are defaulting on mortgages and have obtained mortgages in this manner.

This may be how the banks will retaliate to people defaulting on loans/mortgages.

:unsure:

I can't see it happening. The banks are complicit in all of this. They are fully aware of the "nudge and a wink" that goes with self-cert. Its just there way of loan sharking without taking any responsibility for it. They get to lend money at a higher interest rate, and are taking a punt that it will pay off.

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I can't see it happening. The banks are complicit in all of this. They are fully aware of the "nudge and a wink" that goes with self-cert. Its just there way of loan sharking without taking any responsibility for it. They get to lend money at a higher interest rate, and are taking a punt that it will pay off.

It happened last time - I remember a bloke got 18 months - made the front page of the papers - judge said it was fraud and, as we all know, if you sin against God (money) you get a severe sentence. All he did was lie to get a foot on the ladder.

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If its against the law and they get caught , they should get jailed, its fraud

I think the goverment better start investing in a few more prisons then, oooohhhh more goverment debt.....

If it does happen theres going to be a very large number of convictions.

:huh:

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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