Britain Ordered To Bail Out The Euro!

[uptherebels]

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I don't know, personally I've stopped caring over the last few months and more just take a spectator's view. 

Me too. Fascinating and scary at the same time Is this really it? Or will we all be here in a months time talking about mumsnet ?

[R K]

Merkin's an idiot.

She could have prevented all of this months ago if she hadn't tried to deflate the entire Eurozone except Deutscheland into the dust.

What Germany really needs is a housing boom or to stop accumulating assets like a goldbug on acid and start spending some of it.

You can't be the solution if you're the problem and in denial. See Gordon for details.

[South Lorne]

Me too. Fascinating and scary at the same time Is this really it? Or will we all be here in a months time talking about mumsnet ?

...as events outside the UK are bigger then within ...and they affect us ....best to be on guard.....

Edited May 8, 2010 by South Lorne

[Ben from Dover]

Rock meet hard place.

Yes, I can see where this is going. Possibly true but I still think Britain produces far more of value than we realise.

Take that away and these thieves are scuppered.

We need a very quick deflation and a push of the reset button.

Well i can't argue with you Mr Parry since you won my HPC election on the off topic forum.

i think your dead right about riots achieving nothing. When you see them on the tele it does seem very poitless. an excuse for meatheads to have a punch up most of the time, bit like football violence.

On the bbc they had a loop of footage showing the greek riots and one of the bits had a man on the floor and a riot police man kicking him - the guy was already on the floor - totally pointless

[HovelinHove]

Can the Eurozone actually ask the UK to pay money to support a currency which is not our own, I mean surely not...??

If true surely there has to be a tipping point where the Citizens of the UK actually say no and Riot?? or are we all too busy with the nintendo WII???

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

[betterToDo]

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

Not only that, I heard a rumour the IMF loan in this bailout is ranked junior, meaning Greece can pay off its maturing debts to European banks, and when it subsequently collapses amid massive social unrest, will indirectly thereby leave the UK taxpayer suckling on the oh-so-dry teat of default.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Fraccy

[uptherebels]

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

Except it wouldn't be 10 billion would it. It never is.

[Ben from Dover]

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

So in order to not lose exports we are going to give the people we export to tens of billions fo pounds.

nonsensical

Its as if I sold you apples every day and then when you ran out I just give you loads of moeny so you can carry on always buying my apples. fvck it - I might as well just keep my apples and my money. argument doesn't hold.

[South Lorne]

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

...well since the sovereign debt is just under £1 trillion without the public sector pensions...will it make much difference ..?....trust it works both ways ...just like our contribution through the IMF ....

[Jack's Creation]

Big slow hand clap for the bankrupt of england for creating this mess.

No way in hell there would be hung parliament if the electorate had already found out the true scale of the economic problems if they were not papered over with quantitative sleazing.

Once again they have meddled with not only the monetary envirnoment but also the political environment of this country.

+1

Mervin has hamstrung the economy for the next 50 years, merely to save Brown's bacon. Don't forget, he was one of the 364 economists.

original reference

"Those with longer political memories, though, will recall a similar letter of March 1981, when Geoffrey Howe’s monetarist, deflationary budget provoked howls of derision from professional economists. In the depths of a recession and at a time of growing unemployment, Howe and Margaret Thatcher had proposed substantial increases in taxation alongside substantial cuts in public borrowing – precisely the reverse of the counter-cyclical policies advocated by the Keynesian economists who then dominated the profession.

The response to these measures was a letter to The Times, signed by 364 academic economists from universities across Britain, condemning the budget as having ‘no basis in economic theory’ and as posing a significant risk to ‘the industrial basis of our economy and… its social and political stability’. The signatories urged the government to ‘reject monetarist policies and consider urgently which alternative offers the best hope of sustained recovery’.

The letter had been signed by a cross-section of the most eminent names in economics – including James Meade, Amartya Sen, Alec Cairncross, and Nicholas Kaldor, alongside the present Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King (not to mention one of my former tutors) – and appeared to demonstrate the utter intellectual isolation of the government. When challenged, Mrs Thatcher was able to name two economists who supported the measures in the budget – her own advisors, Alan Walters and Patrick Minford – but one civil servant is said to have quipped afterwards that it was a good job she hadn’t been asked to name three.

Nearly thirty years on, however, the conventional wisdom would have it that the 364 economists were wrong and that Howe and Thatcher were right (although some of the signatories continue to defend their position). Although unemployment continued to rise, and would not peak until 1986, the prophesised depression never arrived. Indeed, an economic recovery began within weeks of the letter’s publication and seemed to make a mockery of the economists’ predictions."

[Grayphil]

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

this is really bad

10 billion, now is that euros, pounds or dollars or does nobody care any more?? I mean arent we talking about starting Auserity measures soon, so that 10 billion would mean a lot of jobs, a lot of services, im sure adding to a debt we cannot afford is not a small price to help stabilise a region, we have bigger problems with debt than they do?????????????????

[Guest Noodle]

Well i can't argue with you Mr Parry since you won my HPC election on the off topic forum.

i think your dead right about riots achieving nothing. When you see them on the tele it does seem very poitless. an excuse for meatheads to have a punch up most of the time, bit like football violence.

On the bbc they had a loop of footage showing the greek riots and one of the bits had a man on the floor and a riot police man kicking him - the guy was already on the floor - totally pointless

Makes wicked telly though.

Wot poll off-topic? Should I be scared?

[Ben from Dover]

Makes wicked telly though.

Wot poll off-topic? Should I be scared?

You won my HPC election (at during election night) for the most popular poster.

Whole thing didn't get many votes though as the mods quickly put it off topic and it currently buried somewhere there. sounds like a cover up to me (not unlike the real world)

Congrats

[Guest Noodle]

You won my HPC election (at during election night) for the most popular poster.

Whole thing didn't get many votes though as the mods quickly put it off topic and it currently buried somewhere there. sounds like a cover up to me (not unlike the real world)

Congrats

Oh ignore that result, they're all on drugs.

It's like an opium den in that off-topic.

[Ben from Dover]

Oh ignore that result, they're all on drugs.

It's like an opium den in that off-topic.

I do try to stay away

[Guest Noodle]

I do try to stay away

Don't it's great fun.

Did you include my mate Wario in the list? Wario's the finest on t'internet.

[Ben from Dover]

Don't it's great fun.

Did you include my mate Wario in the list? Wario's the finest on t'internet.

No - I'm not aware of him??

It was basically you vs Injin with a few wackey 'others' thrown in it make it look like a real democracy - just like in real life

[Woot]

That Telegraph story is ******

The bailout money comes from the eurozone. It needs all 27 to agree the mechanism, but the money just comes from the 16

Shockingly poor/biased reporting.

Thanks for this... do you have a linky, or can you be a little more specific pls?

[Woot]

Rioting makes no difference. They just run you down with horses, water cannon and tear gas.

Stopping works. Stop everything. Mass walk out. Shut the whole place down. Refuse.

Reminiscent of Ghandi's march to the sea... certainly has its appeals right now - I'm stressed to snapping point and could do with a little chill time.

[Guest Noodle]

No - I'm not aware of him??

It was basically you vs Injin with a few wackey 'others' thrown in it make it look like a real democracy - just like in real life

Injin's a God to me.

Anyway, I can deal with this Euro bailout thing for you.

I'll do the same as I do with the Thai 'family' here when they come scrounging.

'Bank finit. All money gone!'

I'll need video conferencing facilities coz it requires Blair fashion hand gestures.

[huw]

One word (or acronym)...IMF...we already bail out currencies which are not our own, we're already helping with the Greek bailout. The Eurozone is our biggest market, if the Euro collapses, so will our exports. 10 billion is a small price to pay to help stabilise an economic area that is vital to our wellbeing.

Hardly, we exported to those countries before the euro was born and we'll export to them after it's dead ... they'll have some means of exchange, after all

The prosperity of our trading partners is a lot more important to us than the question of whether they share a currency.

[_w_]

the prophesised depression never arrived. Indeed, an economic recovery began within weeks of the letter's publication and seemed to make a mockery of the economists' predictions."

That's because both Thatcher and Reagan reversed their monetarist policies ahead of time once they realised they were taking their respective economies to the ground without any results. Friedman's Monetarism was the problem if I recall correctly, not the budgetary constraints.

[OnlyMe]

That's because both Thatcher and Reagan reversed their monetarist policies ahead of time once they realised they were taking their respective economies to the ground without any results. Friedman's Monetarism was the problem if I recall correctly, not the budgetary constraints.

And that created another bubble that resulted in the '87 collapse.

Every one of these bubble/burst episodes resulted in more destruction of the economic and industrial base.

[okaycuckoo]

Hold your horses, that doesn't seem to be quite right either. The Greek bailout is, as you say, coming entirely from the Eurozone countries. What's being discussed now is some new stabilization pact potentially covering the whole of the EU. There are no concrete details about what's being proposed so the Telegraph is speculating on what it might involve. The bit about whatever it turns out to be going through on a qualified majority vote is accurate though.

So the Telegraph is speculating and at the same time saying it's locked in by certain provisions of Lisbon?

Time to step back and consider what's really going on. We've already had a mountain of ******** information heaped on us by the financial services industry - don't need more.

[huw]

If true (and I can't find anything except in the Telegraph) then I suggest we simply don't pay.

Firstly, Article 122 was never intended for this purpose (and its use would surely be subject to legal challenge).

Secondly, these EU treaties aren't actually binding, are they?