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mbga9pgf

Panorama Sunday Night

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Did anyone else watch this and just see the political correctness lobby just get blown out of the water? I think I just did. It was brilliant, frank and hitting. Something I am very unused to coming from a frankly communist broadcasting service in recent times.

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Didn't watch it, but having read the transcript I see similarities with the "tough at the top" series of programmes a couple of years ago. It's always interesting to take a peek inside a mysterious organisation, even more so one where there is neither a consistent internal nor external message.

While I don't believe a programme constructed in this manner could ever accurately represent the views of the average British Muslim, I came away with little reassurement about the peaceful intentions of some of the interviewees.

Despite all the recent talk of economic doom and gloom, house prices crashing, unemployment rising, record personal debt, failing schools with bogus exam results, etc., I can safely say I am privileged to live in a country with a high degree of seperation between church and state.

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An incredible program. There's no way this program could have been done before the London bombings.

What was interesting was the Muslims who were attacking the Muslim Council of Britain for politising everything.

Sir Iqbal Sacranie doesn't seem to the moderate Muslim that I thought he was. His comments in the past regarding Salman Rushdie and his apparent difficulty in condemning all terrorist attacks made me nervous.

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I saw this programme and have to say it was a very interesting piece of journalism.

It appeared to me to give a well balanced take on the current running of the MCB.

Don't often hear this on here very often but, well done BBC!

NDL

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I saw this programme and have to say it was a very interesting piece of journalism.

It appeared to me to give a well balanced take on the current running of the MCB.

Don't often hear this on here very often but, well done BBC!

NDL

I agree with you for once :)

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I found it extremely disturbing that the Saudi's are flooding the world with their own 'updated' translations of the Koran.

Imagine what would happen if somebody started to hand out books with a similar anti-islamic message.

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I found it extremely disturbing that the Saudi's are flooding the world with their own 'updated' translations of the Koran.

Imagine what would happen if somebody started to hand out books with a similar anti-islamic message.

Even the more traditional translations are heinous enough.

Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29).

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Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29).

Well thats totally wrong as I know plenty of muslim friends who believe that in islam ALL FAITHS are to be respected and you are to live side-by-side in harmony and peace.

One thing that comes to mind is how long has the conflict between jewish & muslims been going on? and I'm not just talking about recent israeli conflict, but the past history since islamic/jewish religions began. Have there been other major conflicts? etc

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Well thats totally wrong as I know plenty of muslim friends who believe that in islam ALL FAITHS are to be respected and you are to live side-by-side in harmony and peace.

One thing that comes to mind is how long has the conflict between jewish & muslims been going on? and I'm not just talking about recent israeli conflict, but the past history since islamic/jewish religions began. Have there been other major conflicts? etc

Well I know for a fact that Mohammed considered the Israelis as brothers; so much is written in the Koran. The israeli conflict I must say is definately rooted around the late 19th and early 20th century, mostly as a result of poor decision making by the newly formed UN and the UK government in power post-WW2.

I also have close Muslim friends I would trust with my life; I however consider them completely seperate from what has been described as a signficant minority by said friends that want to see the UK transformed into an Islamist state such as Iran. Such individuals in my view are traitors and as such should be given the appropriate treatment, namely, dispatch to their home countries that have, shall we say, have more "local" customs which deal with troublemakers. The scum that I refer to are not true Muslims; they simply show no compassion to anyone other than their own ilk. They simply interpret the crap they are sold by so called spiritual leaders who have their own home rooted "foreigh policy" within the UK. This, I find, deeply disturbing.

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The info you've provided mbga9pgf, is correct. After doing a bit of research, I found a popular website which discusses all aspects of islam. Here someone asks the question "What is the concept of first aid and healing and its position in Islam?: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli.../AskAboutIslamE

I have taken a small amount of the following info and highlighted some words:

Concept of the Human Body & Human Rights in Islam

Islam invokes respect for the body as a gift from Allah; a Muslim does not assume absolute “ownership” of his or her body, but only cares for it as a precious gift while he/she lives until it is returned to its Creator upon death. Muslims are required to take good care of their health and that of other Muslims as much as humanly possible. They’re also required to respect nature, the environment, and the physical well being of all living things, including humans of other faiths. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) conveyed to Muslims that they will be asked in front of Allah on Judgment Day about how they used the gift of healthy bodies in life. Contrary to some other faiths, a Muslim is prohibited from terminating his own life, is not allowed to abuse or destroy his body, nor is he required to humiliate it to achieve excellence in worship or closeness to the Creator.

The Qur’an says what means:

*{And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to [your] destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:195)

Islam teaches that every living being has an equal right to life-sustaining elements, and humans get the greatest share of respect as the deputies of Allah on earth. Muslims are instructed to study the functions of their own bodies in order to appreciate Allah’s magnificence and to be able to save precious lives. The Qur’an says what means:

*{As also in your own selves: will ye not then see?}* (Adh-Dhariyat 51:21)

Hope that helps.

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@ Solvent Celt

To me, that passage could be translated as "You're either with us or against us".

You either

1. convert,

2. live as second class "protected" Dhimmis whilst paying protection money

3. or are to be slain

There is no peaceful co-existance based on mutual respect.

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Quoting myself earlier, "a mysterious organisation, even more so one where there is neither a consistent internal nor external message". How can people place so much trust in a religion issuing the following contradictory instructions:

1) [Muslims are] required to respect nature, the environment, and the physical well being of all living things, including humans of other faiths.

2) Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day...

I'm not specifically targeting Islam, I'm certain the other major religions exhibit glaringly incompatible commandments.

I'm also perplexed that the old religious texts have survived unchanged as teaching and human conditioning tools, centuries after they were written. Scientific books don't last this long, would we today take a book seriously that suggested the earth was flat?

Kevin Smith's film Dogma sums it up pretty well for me, in that it's having faith that's important but that organised religion is a dangerous weapon, "there is no 'right' religion."

Paul

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Muslims bear no responsibilty for anything they have done, anywhere, ever. They have carte blanche. They are the toddlers of the world. Running around causing havoc & when they are caught out just shrugging their shoulders and saying "it wasn't me." World Trade Centre? - "...he made me do it", Beslan? - "...I didn't start it", Hamas leader killed? - "...it's not fair!", Madrid? - "...you were warned", London? - "...it's your fault!" Bali? - "...the music was too loud." An excuse for every atrocity. That's quite a religion you've got there. Always the victim. Impervious to all criticism. Blaming others for your own failings. Finding fault in others (often justified) but not seeing fault in yourselves.

And God forbid any who seek answers for your behaviour. That is strictly off limits. For that you can shout "bigot", "zionist", "racist", "infidel", "neo-con." Fantastic! Both defence and attack in just one word! No need to question your own role at all. Who needs a suicide belt when you can roast yourselves in your own indignation? You have invented a perpetual motion self-flagellation machine with which to torture yourselves. It is called the Koran. The biggest "get out of jail free" card in human history. (Only spiritual jail fortunately.) All deviant behaviour justified. Come one, come all. Beat your wife? Kill a Jew? Drugs trafficking? "Yep, we can do that for you, sir." Don't agree with a verse? "Don't worry, our scholars can reinterpret it for you. You can pick it up tomorrow afternoon." The rest of the world left this nonsense behind centuries ago.

You claim to belong to a greater Muslim brotherhood and to all be connected through Islam. Except when something goes wrong and then you hide under your beds or make a run for Rome or Beirut. So much for the Ummah. A word presumably derived from "umm...errr...." as you decide whether to believe in it that day or not. How convienient.

Then suddenly we can't move for those whose self preservation instinct suddenly outweighs the teachings of the great book. Islam doesn't seem quite so important when you might not get to take your kids to see Fantastic Four or sneak off to visit a brothel at the weekend, eh? The Koran doesn't seem such a good read if you have to leave you fruit pastilles behind and read it in Kandahar by candlelight. But feet up in front of Strictly Come Dancing? Cup of tea and a biccy? Result. "That Natasha Kaplinsky's not jewish is she? Nice @rse though!" Frauds. You love it here and you just can't bear to hear it. Western culture is abhorrant to you but it is so damn comfortable. This is your inner conflict. This is your achilles heel. You have been seduced. So...

Let's slag the west off until it looks like they might turn against us. We can always tell them they misunderstood us! When our leaders go too far we can blame the "sensationalist" media like, errr..., Panorama. Oops. Or the Today programme. Oh dear. We can tell them that just because a leading scholar says on TV in front of millions of people "kill all jews" it doesn't mean he "actually" said it. We can claim black is white 'til the cows come home. Hypocrites. Cowards. Iqbal Sacranie take a bow. Devious. Frightened. Little. Man. He must be a source of great pride.

We are left with a religion slowly mutating into fascism with most proponents too lily livered to rescue it, too cowardly to do anything but pay lip-service to moderate thinking. Politicians of all stripes gather round to support you. They have no idea of the truth behind the facade. It's a photo-op for them. Another box ticked off their demographic. Ken Livingstone, leader, man of the people, dupe. There are dozens more, and they reach the very top. Luckily some of us have principles that don't change with the weather. Lucky for us that is, if not for you.

Mohammed must be spinning. For a religion that is always going on about its scholars you show little evidence of enlightenment. Thanks Mohammed, you did a really great job there, pal. If he had known how his teachings would be perverted in such a grotesque manner he wouldn't have bothered. The world would have been better off if he had been smothered at birth.

Of course, if you were really that big and brave you would get yourselves over to the middle east and meet your "oppressors" on the battlefield. Like men. Face to face, leave the balaclavas at home. Ah, but then you would lose. Like before. So that's no good. That'd be why you love shouting from the wings so vociferously & getting others to do your dirty work for you. Revolting. You treat your religion like a fashion statement. You can shout Allah Akbar as much as you want. You are unlikely to meet Him in this life or the next.

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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