The Election Debate

[blankster]

ITV/Comres : Con 36% LibDems 35% Labour 24% + + +: Poll of 4000 voters who had watched the programme.

The Sky poll has the Lib Dems in 1st place! Tories 2nd, Labour 3rd.

Maybe the Clegg / Cable combo is turning into a dream ticket for the Lib Dems - but much too early to say.

The Achilles heel of the Conservatives is their vulnerability to vote erosion by UKIP in seats where the Tory candidate isn't Euroskeptic enough for UKIP to stand aside.

The Achilles heel of Labour is Gordon Brown.

The Achilles heel of the Lib Dems is what to do when people have heard enough of Nick Clegg, Vince Cable and Lord Ashdown.

Edited April 16, 2010 by blankster

[TwoWolves]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7096826.ece

Skelton Eric wrote:

I was impressed by the historian Starkey on 'Question Time' some weeks ago (not normally a fan!). He pointed out to a 'nice' lady in the audience who said basically 'Lets stop punishing young offenders and try to educate/love them' that that is exactly what we HAVE benn doing (with no success) for forty years. Liberals constantly relaunch the tired (and failed) old 'post war consensus'as revolutionary new thinking as if it were once again 1946 and the 'swinging sixties' had never occurred. Men like Clegg HAVE dictated British social thinking for half a century but still cannot stop speaking as if 'the reactionary old blimps' are in charge and a 'new broom' is needed to close the Borstals and get 'Cathy to come home'.

Its high time the British public grew-up.

[Guest Laborrower]

Cameron must be throwing it.

When pushed by Brown 'will you match our commitments on Police and Education spending' - I would have said 'Where are you getting all this money from? Oh yes, you're BORROWING it - you're BORROWING enough money this year to pay the wage bill of the whole public sector - and our children will be lumbered with paying it back. So, NO!, I'm not going to match your spending commitments because your spending commitments are based on dangerous levels of borrowing.

Any fool can borrow and spend money and boast about it. But I won't kid the British people that the madness you are involved in can go on. It can't and the actions you are taking run the real risk of another financial crisis. You keep having a go at us for NOT increasing taxes by £6 billion - not for cutting taxes - but for not increasing taxes - at a time when you are spending 40, thousand, million pounds on debt interest every year - and the more you borrow the higher the amount will have to be paid back.

So, let's do something to get the borrowing down. Let's at least try to cut waste and unnecessary spending instead of burying our heads in the sand and carrying on with the borrowing binge that got us into this mess in the first place.

Cameron looked disinterested to me. We need a bit of passion and he needs to slap Brown down.

Spot on

The ammunition is there to crucify Brown and neither Cameron nor Clegg have used it.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Laborrower

[Guest Laborrower]

Watching whole communities lose their sole source of income (pit closures in Fife). Watching former friends spitting at each other with gargoyle faces (Timex scab workers in Dundee). Reading about miners dropping concrete blocks from motorway flyovers onto passing cars. Watching police officers attack Poll Tax protestors with a zeal not witnessed in the UK in living memory. Seeing night watchmen jobs advertised at 50p an hour. I could go on and on and on....

Not locked out of the housing market for 10 years watching your hard earned savings eroded by artificially low interest rates

Not having school kids carry knives

Not having an enormous debt which may swallow us up.

etc

People talk about the 80's as though it was like a wasteland. Lots of people reamined in work. 3 million unemployed. How many do we have now? Less???? All that's different is that the unemployment now is spread about, rather than concentrated in whole sectors. It was mainly the miners who got it in the neck and some could argue that they were not able to compete with foreign firms (sound familiar?).

If Thatcher had done a Brown (and maybe she should have because Joe public is thick enough to vote for it), all the miners could have stayed on, we could have all been living off debt and it would have been idyllic....until the day of reckoning came.

All that's different is the Tories tried to manage the books at the time whereas Labour is sticking everything on the slate.........to be paid off by some poor gen who will not be of concern to Gordon when he's sitting in his rocking hcair in the Lords, smoking his fat cigar and counting his fat pension.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Laborrower

[robo1968]

People talk about the 80's as though it was like a wasteland. It was mainly the miners who got it in the neck and some could argue that they were not able to compete with foreign firms (sound familiar?).

'Market forces', two words often quoted by people disconnected from the issue and yet cover so much pain and suffering and seem so inadequte if you are one of those involved.

It is not the fault of a political party though, lack of duties and protectionism maybe but that is another subject

[Dorkins]

do you mean a lot of public sector people?

Only 1/5th of full time employees works in the public sector (cue "yes but that's only cos they are always off sick hur hur"). 4/5ths work in the private sector. Tell me where the voting strength lies again?

[robo1968]

Only 1/5th of full time employees works in the public sector (cue "yes but that's only cos they are always off sick hur hur"). 4/5ths work in the private sector. Tell me where the voting strength lies again?

the means humour?

[Mish Mash]

Reading about miners dropping concrete blocks from motorway flyovers onto passing cars.

Without wishing to downplay the seriousness of what happened.

2 miners, 1 car. 1 instance. Road not motorway(s), bridge not flyover(s).

Link

You make it sound like a 80s national craze.

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Spot on

The ammunition is there to crucify Brown and neither Cameron nor Clegg have used it.

And the reason, people, is because its the LibLabCon party. They are the established political elite. WAKE UP and vote for change.!

[billybong]

For most people both the Cons and the NuLabs have shown themselves to be completely and utterly inept at managing and balancing the economy and even things in general - no matter who they themselves try to attach the blame to i,e, the US, the globe, the unions etc etc etc......soon it will likely be Iceland's ash.

Regarding the Cons claim that they left the economy good in 1997 even if it's true it was at the expense of very very harsh policies and guess what it was the general population that had to bear the brunt of it all.

So for a lot of people giving the LibDems their chance would likely seem a reasonable proposition that does seem to be gaining momentum - a lot of people will likely be deciding they just couldn't possibly do any worse than the Cons and the NuLabs have done.

[jareth]

Spot on

The ammunition is there to crucify Brown and neither Cameron nor Clegg have used it.

I am undecided whether Cameron is trying to throw the election or if he is just boxed in by the focus-group/mumsnet brigade. He fears losing support when he could just as easily be making all the right noises and gaining support. As political parties continue to zero in on a smaller and smaller 'centre ground' (as they have defined it) more and more people don't vote because they don't have anyone to vote for.

If you try to be all things to all men no-one knows where you stand. Nobody can get behind you but perhaps more important from a politician's perspective, no-one can hold anything against you either. Lowest common denominator politics wins again.

[yameesh]

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, just created a facebook event:

"NOT VOTING FOR GORDON BROWN" (search for it if the link doesnt work, it's the one with the picture of Brown with a light above his head)

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=109772062394274

[billybong]

There's opinion that all the recent reckless stimulus of the economy is going to prevent the double dip recession happening in 2010 and there might even be reasonable growth for the remainder of 2010 and a bit beyond before an even more severe double dip in 2011 and 2012 following the cuts that will be necessary to delay the ultimate hyperinflation and bankruptcy of the UK.

If the Tories do get in and actually do keep their promise to cut to avoid the bankruptcy then they must cut a lot more decisively and a lot quicker than they are currently saying otherwise by 2011 and 2012 Brown or whoever will be standing at the Dispatch Box will be repeatedly saying "Look under NuLabour the UK economy was locked in and well on its way to full recovery with strong robust growth through 2010 and expected to continue thereafter but then you took over and you put the UK into recession. That is the same old Tory politics take from the poor to give to the rich that we warned the voters about and just like the 90s, wolves in sheeps clothing, leopards spots" and there will be some truth in it.

They will be saying that at any rate but if there's been a year of reasonable growth after the election it will even sound very very credible and by the time of the next election it might be the governing factor with people thinking yes NuLabour were right, the Tories destroyed the recovery that NuLabour had "locked in" just to line the pockets of their buddies. If only we had listened to Mr Brown and NuLabour the only party that knows how to manage things without boom and bust (except global busts of course).

The last debate on 29 April is on the economy and the GDP figures will already have been announced on 23 April and if the figures confirm the recovery they will obviously be repeatedly crowed about by Brown during the debate along with don't destroy the recovery by voting Tory. How likely is it that the figures will not be reasonable with the government pulling every lever, the figures might not be sufficeient to win NuLabour the general election but if they lose then reasonable figures will be used to spring board future attacks on the Tories.

Edited April 17, 2010 by billybong

[Winston Wolf]

A few genuine questions.

1) When Brown says he has invested in the country by stimulating the economy how has he actually done that? Whats he really done? All I can see he has p1ssed our money up the wall on non jobs.

2) He attacks the Tories by trying to frighten the public constantly going on about a double dip reccesion but how does he think he can make all the promises he has on public services AND pay down the deficit? What is he really going to do?

3) Why doesnt Cameron ask him how he can make those promises AND reduce our deficit. Why doesnt Cameron come out and say he is LYING again to the British public?

I cannot see one iota of truth in anything that Brown says. I'm not partisan but it worries me so many people just cant see it.

[robo1968]

A few genuine questions.

1) When Brown says he has invested in the country by stimulating the economy how has he actually done that? Whats he really done? All I can see he has p1ssed our money up the wall on non jobs.

2) He attacks the Tories by trying to frighten the public constantly going on about a double dip reccesion but how does he think he can make all the promises he has on public services AND pay down the deficit? What is he really going to do?

3) Why doesnt Cameron ask him how he can make those promises AND reduce our deficit. Why doesnt Cameron come out and say he is LYING again to the British public?

I cannot see one iota of truth in anything that Brown says. I'm not partisan but it worries me so many people just cant see it.

I share in your sentiment but think that somewhere along the way Cameron has sat down with his advisers and asked:-

'How many voters will vote for me if I tell the truth about cuts? '

'an extra 3%' they reply

'How many voters will I lose if I tell the truth?'

'about 10%' they reply

Hence the reason he is just staying tight lipped, I don't care about some fluffy debate and who looked/sounded the best, it is not f**king X factor, this is the country we are talking about.... it is the policies and intentions that mean more for me.

[thecrashingisles]

New Mail on Sunday poll has the Lib Dems in the lead with Labour third...

[Errol]

[tinker]

New Mail on Sunday poll has the Lib Dems in the lead with Labour third...

It's getting quite surreal now.

[billybong]

Marr just finished interviewing Brown on BBC1.

Somehow they managed to completely skirt around the huge housing elephant without mentioning it or seeing it standing trumpeting and bellowing right there right in front of their faces. It waved its trunk about, stood on its hind legs and did a complete twirl more than once and then dumped a really huge pile of dung right there in the middle of the room but no they still didn't notice it.

One of the other other elephants, that is the one called £trillions and £trillions of debt, deficit and total liabilities, they managed to shrink right down to only a £6 billion problem again in an "I shrank the kids" sort of way.

Yes it's all likely going to shrink the kids future right down but not a single objection from "interviewer" Marr.

Apart from that lots and lots of promises even the promise of a referendum on something. No it wasn't a referendum on the EU

Edited April 18, 2010 by billybong

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

cant decide who to vote for?

try this!

http://www.votematch.org.uk/

[Winston Wolf]

cant decide who to vote for?

try this!

http://www.votematch.org.uk/

Or not .... it matches according to thier policies and takes no account of thier integrity or thier likleyhood of delivery.

We know Brown promises a lot .... no more boom and bust and I will not let house prices get out of control.

I put it to you votematch is flawed.

Vote LibDems. More Genuine at least. Dr Vince as chancellor wouldnt be too bad at all.

Vince is our man to control house prices.

[dances with sheeple]

Marr just finished interviewing Brown on BBC1.

Somehow they managed to completely skirt around the huge housing elephant without mentioning it or seeing it standing trumpeting and bellowing right there right in front of their faces. It waved its trunk about, stood on its hind legs and did a complete twirl more than once and then dumped a really huge pile of dung right there in the middle of the room but no they still didn't notice it.

One of the other other elephants, that is the one called £trillions and £trillions of debt, deficit and total liabilities, they managed to shrink right down to only a £6 billion problem again in an "I shrank the kids" sort of way.

Yes it's all likely going to shrink the kids future right down but not a single objection from "interviewer" Marr.

Apart from that lots and lots of promises even the promise of a referendum on something. No it wasn't a referendum on the EU

The elephant needs to take out it`s nob (if it`s got one) and have a pish all over both of them, that might bring them to their senses? Gordon is a clown no doubt and a liar, but I think this election is going to slip away from him. All good.

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Or not .... it matches according to thier policies and takes no account of thier integrity or thier likleyhood of delivery.

We know Brown promises a lot .... no more boom and bust and I will not let house prices get out of control.

I put it to you votematch is flawed.

Vote LibDems. More Genuine at least. Dr Vince as chancellor wouldnt be too bad at all.

Vince is our man to control house prices.

Votematch is flawed, it gave Labour as my second choice

LibDem? Just a touchy-feely yoghurt-knitting, middle class version of Labour. Their policies are a complete pie-in-the-sky wish list of everything that would be nice if there was such a thing as a magic wand. I find them laughable.

[billybong]

At the moment I can't remember all the best bits in the Marr "interview" but Brown did say on Iceland's volcanic ash that there were "flights taking place to see if it was safe to fly". That'll be "learning lessons" from Japanese pilots at the end of World War 2.

Edited April 18, 2010 by billybong

[tricksters]

Vince is our man to control house prices.

Really? I thought he wanted the banks to start lending more liberally to would be homebuyers.