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El_Pirata

Council Housing Scams

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Several years ago I lived in a very nice council flat in Clerkenwell. The supposed tenant was actually a public schoolgirl who had got the flat by pretending to be a homeless lesbian, which apparently got her pushed right up the waiting list and also allowed her to choose the nicest area in Camden borough.

She seemed completely unconcerned about getting caught and fine about me having bank statements etc sent to the address. All those ads about "targeting benefit fraud" are clearly a sham. We even had council workmen round to fix the plumbing who clearly had no idea who the real tenant should be.

Now I know two different people in Islington who are sub-tenants of Moroccan coucil tenants. These are actually living back in Morocco, where the rent they are receiving probably funds a decent lifestyle given exchange rate differences.

I also recently met a guy who had four different council houses in different names and was sub-letting three of them. He was planning to buy all of them as soon as he was eligible, as was my former landlady in Clerkenwell, at the usual discount.

It occurs to me that one of the consequences of HPI is that on the one hand, ordinary working joes remain housing-poor even while they are cash-long, while people who through no hard work of their own have obtained good council accomodation have become housing-rich relative to many of us.

Being a council tenant in a good area like Clerkenwell is extremely cushy - they provide a better and cheaper service than private landlords and you get to buy the flat at a discount after a couple of years.

If you work (no chance of getting a council flat in London unless unemployed), on the other hand, you have to pay through the nose to rent from and amateur BTL muppet who will fix nothing and steal your deposit at the end, and you will probably get booted out soon when interest rates go up and he has to sell cos he can't cover the mortgage payments with your rent.

Hardly fair, is it?

I was wondering if anyone else has any experience of this?

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......the site you are looking for is listed under "BNP" not "HPC".

Your story has so many holes it beggars belief.

If somebody was using several aliases to rent property (which may be possible, never been a council tenant so wouldnt know) but to buy and sell property you need to prove you identity (money laundering act) This also includes buying shares, banking funds into a bank account etc etc....and they do check!

So how would this peson buy these properties in bogus names? One would presume that he would require a mortage, how does he get that in a bogus name? Indeed how would he sell them in a bogus name?

Which bit annoys you - that she said she was 'homeless' or that she said she was a 'lesbian'?......I doubt the fact that she said she was a 'lesbian' counted for very much.

If you felt so rightous on the issue why didnt you report it at the time? You clearly had no problem breaking the law when it suited your own ends so why complain now?

Befuddled thinking......

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What has this got to do with the BNP? Did I make any racist or homophobic comments? Please tell me where. Lazily labelling anyone you disagree with a racist makes it harder to challenge real racism.

I have no problem with homeless lesbians being given council houses. I do have a problem with public schoolgirls pretending to be homeless lesbians being given council houses.

If you are deemed to be in a vulnerable or at risk group, you get priority. As the girl herself explained to me, if you are gay you have the right to keep turning down flats you are offered until you get one in what you deem to be a gay-friendly area. Nothing wrong with this in principle, people shouldn't have to live somewhere they feel uncomfortable, but it seems rather open to exploitation eg you keep turning down flats in the nasty part of the borough until you get one in the nice part of the borough.

As far as the multiple council house guy goes, he used three of his brothers' identities, who were all out the country. (Just so you're in no doubt and don't call me a BNP supporter gain, the guy is white English). No serious checks were done by the council, clearly, and he was confident that he would also be able to get this past the mortgage lenders.

Yes I agree it is rather hypocritical of me to object to the situation while being involved in it, but I don't really care. I wanted to live somewhere nice and close to work, an option that was unavailable to me via any other route as so much of the housing stock in Clerkenwell is council owned.

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If you know about fraud and don't report it then you're as bad as the person doing it...

...So I do myself out of a decent flat and move back to Hackney. Meanwhile in the real world...

I actually don't think the people doing this are bad. They are just behaving in an economically rational way, taking advantage of an arbitrage between council and private rents, so to speak.

The problem lies with the councils that allow this to happen in the first place.

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Bomb suspects 'collected £500,000 of benefits in UK'

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1738422005

ALAN RODEN

POLICE are investigating claims that the four suspected bombers who targeted London on July 21 collected more than £500,000 in benefits while in the UK.

The allegations were made as the Bank of England moved to freeze financial accounts belonging to the men, who are all in custody.

Bank officials also disclosed the financial details of the suspects, Ramzi Mohammad, Yasin Hassan Omar, Muktar Said-Ibrahim and Hussain Osman. The documents showed the men used multiple aliases and addresses.

One of the suspected terrorists, Ibrahim, is said to have had six aliases, while it is believed the other men have claimed several nationalities, ages and national insurance numbers while in Britain. Investigators believe that bogus names were used to make some benefit claims.

Two of the suspects are also alleged to have obtained asylum using bogus passports and false names and nationalities.

The benefit payments are understood to include housing and family allowance as well as income support.

Mohammed, 23, who has been linked to the Oval Tube attack, is said to have used six addresses in south west and west London.

One is said to be on the Peabody Estate in North Kensington where he surrendered to armed police with Ibrahim last Friday.

Ibrahim, alleged to be the Hackney bus bomber, is believed to have used two dates of birth, six aliases, two national insurance numbers and two addresses - both in the Stoke Newington area of North London.

Osman, 27, now fighting extradition from Italy and accused of being the Shepherds Bush attacker, is believed to have gone under five different names and at different times claim he was from Eritrea or Somalia. He is said to have used four different addresses in southwest London.

Omar, 24, who was linked with the attack on a Tube train near Warren Street, had five aliases and lived in New Southgate.

Across Europe, police are thought to be investigating whether any of the suspects or their families are linked to finance networks used by terror groups.

Detectives in Rome have revealed that Osman's brother, Remzi, was already being monitored in relation to al-Qaeda's secret financial network. Meanwhile, three more people were due in court today charged with failing to disclose information to police investigating the failed bombings in London on 21 July.

The men, arrested in Brighton, Sussex, last weekend, were set to appear before Bow Street Magistrates' Court, in London.

The accused are Shadi Sami Abdel Gadir, 22, Omar Nagmeloin Almagboul, 20 - both of Brighton - and Mohamed Kabashi, 23, of no fixed abode. Two women and a man have already appeared in court on similar charges.

Yeshiemebet Girma, 29, the wife of Shepherd's Bush bomb suspect Osman Hussain, and his sister-in-law Mulumebet Girma, 21, appeared before Bow Street magistrates yesterday.

• Metropolitan Police commissioner Sir Ian Blair welcomed proposals outlined by Prime Minister Tony Blair to bring in new anti-terror measures.

He said he was "very pleased" with proposals such as a law to ban condoning or glorifying terrorism, which was something police had wanted for some time.

Edited by brainclamp

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Several years ago I lived in a very nice council flat in Clerkenwell. The supposed tenant was actually a public schoolgirl who had got the flat by pretending to be a homeless lesbian, which apparently got her pushed right up the waiting list and also allowed her to choose the nicest area in Camden borough.

She seemed completely unconcerned about getting caught and fine about me having bank statements etc sent to the address. All those ads about "targeting benefit fraud" are clearly a sham. We even had council workmen round to fix the plumbing who clearly had no idea who the real tenant should be.

Now I know two different people in Islington who are sub-tenants of Moroccan coucil tenants. These are actually living back in Morocco, where the rent they are receiving probably funds a decent lifestyle given exchange rate differences.

I also recently met a guy who had four different council houses in different names and was sub-letting three of them. He was planning to buy all of them as soon as he was eligible, as was my former landlady in Clerkenwell, at the usual discount.

It occurs to me that one of the consequences of HPI is that on the one hand, ordinary working joes remain housing-poor even while they are cash-long, while people who through no hard work of their own have obtained good council accomodation have become housing-rich relative to many of us.

Being a council tenant in a good area like Clerkenwell is extremely cushy - they provide a better and cheaper service than private landlords and you get to buy the flat at a discount after a couple of years.

If you work (no chance of getting a council flat in London unless unemployed), on the other hand, you have to pay through the nose to rent from and amateur BTL muppet who will fix nothing and steal your deposit at the end, and you will probably get booted out soon when interest rates go up and he has to sell cos he can't cover the mortgage payments with your rent.

Hardly fair, is it?

I was wondering if anyone else has any experience of this?

i agree with you - note also how someone called you a 'racist' for stating some home truths, but thats probably part of the whole problem of our new 'victim' society.

i cannot find any affordable rent as a working person in the NW, while all around i see very nicley homed chavs, lags and non english speaking immigrants who dont work getting housing priority.

the priority should be on the min wage earner - not the claimant.

claimants should get council hostel accomodation with a temporary taste.

this country treats core workers like crap while the claimants of ALL TYPES take the piss out of them, while they also pay tax to fund such lazy people.

id shake up benefits big time. working age males and childless females - you want a handout. you come collect 1 weeks benefit it in person on tuesday, the day after you worked all of monday 9am - 5pm in the community picking up litter/cutting grass/painting ect.

if you didnt show up monday for com work - dont bother coming tuesday for the benefit.

id pay sickness benefit to anyone in ill health with state appointed doctors to fully confirm each case was genuine - not just a note about depression from the local prozac quacks.

workers first - claimants/immigrants 2nd.

if your an immigrant and think this is discriminatory - get a job.

**i also would like to see stormtroopers on each street corner rounding up undesirables.

Edited by right_freds_dead

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Coincidently I was told only yeaterday about a 40 ish Middle Eastern woman who is a friend of someone in the office in a similar set up.

Years ago she somehow blagged herself a nice housing trust flat and still lives there today paying a tiny rent. A few years ago her father stumped up a hefty deposit for a 250K flat (all properties in London) and she now rents that out and uses any profits to enjoy at her leisure. Nothing that unusual about that you may say.

Here's the punch line, the sponging bitch doesnt work and her father supports her completely with a large monthly allowance.

Call me a racist if you like but this sort of thing has to be clamped down on.

If I was to find out that she was also claiming benefits it could just push me over the edge.

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'The problem lies with the councils that allow this to happen in the first place.'

No it is you that is allowing it to happen, the council does not know about it.

Get real. She'd easily have found another tenant if I'd passed up the opportunity.

It's the whole damn system that stinks.

And the council SHOULD know about it, that's its job. Unfortunately they're all too busy lining their own pockets.

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I'm South African living and working in the UK on the back of my wife's British Ancestry. For the first 4 years here, we had absolutley no 'recourse to public funds' as stated on our visas. Which is fine, we came here for a better quality of life and want (and do) work full time and pay our way.

It pi$$es me off to read about these benefit fraudsters. In SA there is no Social Security to speak of. If you're out of work, you better make a plan, or you'll end up on the street.

Same for healthcare, you need a doctor - you pay. Or you queue up in an AIDS riddled state hospital, and mind you step when you stroll past the gunshot & stabbing victims.

Now admittedly, that's an extreme situation. No Social Services is not the ideal.

But the situation here beggars belief. Social Services are being raped.

I firmly believe the NHS should not be free, but patients should pay a subsidised fee. Maybe that way the NHS could retain quality Doctors.

And the unemployed, they should be put to work at minimum wage. If they refuse work, they get nothing.

And like one of the former posters said, council housing should be temporary, so as to motivate the lazy bums to look after their own.

And the councils should stop selling council property to greedy landlords and then rent it back from them for guaranteed rentals.

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we all know the solutions to the problems and we definately all know the problems.

But which fast moving Government is going to do something about it.

Probably take about 15 years for them to actually put some policys in place.

The state should only support the first 2 children for any given mother.

These people who have 14 kids and £50g a year is barmy - then in the next generation no doubt we are supporting her 14 kids + what ever they manage to bring into this world!

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All these stories are from councils controlled by new labour.

These people dont care as along as we pay their wages.

Death to new labour!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Get real. She'd easily have found another tenant if I'd passed up the opportunity.

It's the whole damn system that stinks.

And the council SHOULD know about it, that's its job. Unfortunately they're all too busy lining their own pockets.

No it doesn't. You complain to ensure that your name not hers appears on the rental book.

Then yes the system would stink but it would be you getting that discounted house not the original con artist.

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Here's the punch line, the sponging bitch doesnt work and her father supports her completely with a large monthly allowance.

But she's sponging off her dad. What's that got to do with anyone else? There are plenty of people who have never HAD to work, because of inherited wealth - always has been always will be.

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No it doesn't. You complain to ensure that your name not hers appears on the rental book.

Then yes the system would stink but it would be you getting that discounted house not the original con artist.

Errr no, I had no right to have my name on the rent book would not get the house. I would just get booted out and told what a naughty boy I am.

I told my friends living in one of the flats supposedly occupied by Moroccans to stop paying the Moroccans and change the locks. But they didn't want to because they were also immigrants (on student visas) and were worried about getting deported if the council got involved. And they were also afraid that the Moroccans would send someone nasty round to deal with them.

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The supposed Now I know two different people in Islington who are sub-tenants of Moroccan coucil tenants. These are actually living back in Morocco, where the rent they are receiving probably funds a decent lifestyle given exchange rate differences.

This is common place with West Africans in my (work) area as well as some white chavs.

The chavs are lazy scum - bags who bleed the system for all its worth. At least the Africans have business sense and jobs! In fact 2 of them I know have more than one council home and use the rents to fund there kids private education.

The chavs simply waste thier proceeds on cars which I find quantatively more dis - tasteful.

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The classic approach in W Wales is move in to a council house for a few years, buy it, sell it, hide the money, move in with relations - oh dear - overcrowding - get another council house, buy it, sell it..........and on..........and on.......

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Not exactly a scam, but this pisses me of...

Anyone who is a descendant of a European can apply to get a passport from their anscestors country of origin (I don't know how far back but I definitely know it can be done as far back as grandparents). Once the Passport is granted, the recepient wings hi way to 'old blarney & goes to the council of his/her choice & puts their name on the waiting list...normally a sob story about lots of kids, husband left me "I'm destitue"...council finds them somewhere to live - benefits start accruing.

A few years down the line all of a sudden they are so destituete & they buy the place!

I see this happening a LOT...my wife is Brazilian & most of her Brazilian workmates are up to this one. There's nothing illegal happening...it's a loophole on the system. THE EU has a lot to answer for.

Same problem with the health service. If you're ill, catch a plane here &once you've cleared immigartion you bimble down your local GP surgery & voila you're then in the system!!!

As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of "So you want a council house/heathcare? Ok then let's see where you were born &/or how much NI contributions you've made...oh, I'm sorry sir we're not accepting BRAND new customers at this time!"

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Not exactly a scam, but this pisses me of...

Anyone who is a descendant of a European can apply to get a passport from their anscestors country of origin (I don't know how far back but I definitely know it can be done as far back as grandparents). Once the Passport is granted, the recepient wings hi way to 'old blarney & goes to the council of his/her choice & puts their name on the waiting list...normally a sob story about lots of kids, husband left me "I'm destitue"...council finds them somewhere to live - benefits start accruing.

A few years down the line all of a sudden they are so destituete & they buy the place!

I see this happening a LOT...my wife is Brazilian & most of her Brazilian workmates are up to this one. There's nothing illegal happening...it's a loophole on the system. THE EU has a lot to answer for.

Same problem with the health service. If you're ill, catch a plane here &once you've cleared immigartion you bimble down your local GP surgery & voila you're then in the system!!!

As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of "So you want a council house/heathcare? Ok then let's see where you were born &/or how much NI contributions you've made...oh, I'm sorry sir we're not accepting BRAND new customers at this time!"

My girlfriend is Argentinian and knows a lot of people who have done this too.

For many countries (including UK) it is quite difficult to get a passport based on ancestry. If your relative is any further back than your grandparents then you will have a really tough time.

But Italy has a very interesting legal concept. If your father or mother is Italian you are born Italian in the eyes of the law, wherever you are born and even if you are not registered as such. Then your children will also be born Italian, and their children and so on. So what Italy does is recognise your Italian nationality rather than grant it.

This means that even if it was only your great-great-great grandfather that was born in Italy, you can still get an Italian passport.

Now given that Argentina was a massive recipient of Italian immigration, over 50pc of Argentinian have some kind of Italian ancestry.

The only thing preventing them all getting passports is the massive backlog in applications that the Italians have deliberately engineered. My girlfriend has been on the waiting list for 4 years.

Most people that get EU passports just want to come to here to work and wouldn't dream of sponging. Spain is probably the favoured destination because of the language, closely followed by here. Italians are apparently very hostile to their own kith and kin, and anyway their economy is a basket case.

But even so, I do know of a few cases - council house, incapacity benefits for debilitating conditions that only started after they got off the place etc etc

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If I was to find out that she was also claiming benefits it could just push me over the edge.

I'm prepared to bet she is claiming benefits.

Find out if you can and report her. Or just report her anyway on suspicion - the benefits people will know if she is claiming.

As a hard-working immigrant to this country, nothing hacks me off more than the benefit culture. It is great that this society provides a safety net for people who are in genuine need, but the scale of the abuse is horrific. Sub-letting council flats is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

To accuse anyone of being racist just because they point this out, is ridiculous.

I have some friends (white English btw) who are looking to rent a cottage in a picture-postcard Somerset village. The full rent will be paid in housing benefits. They will land up in a better house than millions who are struggling to pay the mortgage or pay the rent out of their hard-earned money. Of course the cottage is not particularly close to employment opportunities, but that obviously doesn't worry them as they have no intention of getting a job. The really pathetic thing is, it's all completely legal.

You can't easily stop people from breaking the law, but what beggars belief is that the law empowers people to live like this - while you and I pay for it.

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[Dont be dense, I sold my gaff 2 years ago to a Nigerian, the sale went Ars* up, but the funny thing is he had re directed his mail to my place, he goes under several aliases.

Thats what happens

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I think people who receive benefits should be on an open system so people can enquire to what other people are receiving and therefore make it hellavalot easier to report these fraudsters.

Failing that - bin the whole system and get these bums out to work and get a fricken education!

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Not a Council house scam........ Wrong thread

11 August 2005

The landlord of a Beckenham property was fined £3,500 and ordered to pay £769.20 costs to the Council.  Mr Timothy Bennett was charged with failing to comply with the requirements of a Legal Notice in respect of a house in multiple occupation (HMO). The Beckenham High Street landlord failed to appear last week at Bromley Magistrate's Court and was found guilty in his absence.   

"The safety of our residents is a priority for us. We will continue to inspect this type of accommodation. Prosecution is a last resort and we value the co-operation that most landlords give us. However, we will not hesitate to take action against those that disregard the law and compromise on safety." said Martin Parsons, Head of Residential Services for the Council.

Approximately 2,000 Houses in Multiple Occupation, (HMO's), exist in the borough. These are converted residential properties which contain multiple flats or bedsits. Landlords of these houses must ensure that the properties are fit for human habitation. Following a complaint by one of the tenants who rented the accommodation, a Council inspection found the property to be unsuitable for the number of occupants due to the lack of fire safety measures.

As part of the investigation Mr Bennett was issued with a Requisition for Information, which required details as to the ownership and his interest in the property. He failed to provide the Council with the requested information.

Edited by Kam

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