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The Helios 747 Was Shot Down.

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After hearing the blatant lying the media spins over House Prices and now with the cold blooded murder of the innocent Brazillian I am finding it hard to believe anything anyone says. So much so that I now believe the Helios 747 was in fact shot down by the persuing F16s as there is no way governments and military personnel would allow an out of control plane simple fly on auto pilot towards a crowded city like Athens.

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there is no way governments and military personnel would allow an out of control plane simple fly on auto pilot towards a crowded city like Athens.

I think you are probably right - it would have been on autopilot, with plenty of fuel, so why would it crash?

How did the figher pilots, seeing the passengers at the controls and the pilots slumped, be able to judge the situation and identify them as "passengers" as we have been told?

Shooting it down would be the only thing to do.

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After hearing the blatant lying the media spins over House Prices and now with the cold blooded murder of the innocent Brazillian I am finding it hard to believe anything anyone says. So much so that I now believe the Helios 747 was in fact shot down by the persuing F16s as there is no way governments and military personnel would allow an out of control plane simple fly on auto pilot towards a crowded city like Athens.

Apart from the fact that Athens is on the coast and Marathon is 26 miles away (and far further inland).

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I'm not sure about the rumours that the bodies were frozen either. It would take longer than that wouldn't it? Even if they'd all died straight after take-off.

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After hearing the blatant lying the media spins over House Prices and now with the cold blooded murder of the innocent Brazillian I am finding it hard to believe anything anyone says. So much so that I now believe the Helios 747 was in fact shot down by the persuing F16s as there is no way governments and military personnel would allow an out of control plane simple fly on auto pilot towards a crowded city like Athens.

i remember reading every breaking news article the day that brazilian was killed. in amongest them was one eye witness account that said the guy was sitting in his seat and then some guys rushed in and threw him to the ground and shot him.

that one eye witness contradicted all the others who said he ran in and tripped with plain clothes guys right behind him.

RIGHT THEN i knew something was wrong. not long after we have an elderly gentlemen being interviewed giving us all the story..yep looked middle eastern was being chased got shot blah blah. game set and match...everyone believes the story. Scotland Yard runs with that story cos its nice and easy. of course CCTV camera footage that no doubt has been seen by many London Transport 'civilians' means they can not do a complete cover up job...but its better the news comes out later that they botched it up..better yet that they should leak their own investigation..so when the actual report comes out its like well we knew this already.

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Maybe maybe not but if so you can,t blame them for doing so Sept 11 changed goverment policy and public perception in regards to renegade airplanes and as trajic as the circumstances appear this would be (IMO) the action of most goverments.

I flew with Helios about 4 years ago to Cyprus never really noticed anything different accept the stewardess plying my mates and me with loads of alchohol....in fact the flight was great!

RIP all those on board.

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i remember reading every breaking news article the day that brazilian was killed. in amongest them was one eye witness account that said the guy was sitting in his seat and then some guys rushed in and threw him to the ground and shot him.

that one eye witness contradicted all the others who said he ran in and tripped with plain clothes guys right behind him.

RIGHT THEN i knew something was wrong. not long after we have an elderly gentlemen being interviewed giving us all the story..yep looked middle eastern was being chased got shot blah blah. game set and match...everyone believes the story. Scotland Yard runs with that story cos its nice and easy. of course CCTV camera footage that no doubt has been seen by many London Transport 'civilians' means they can not do a complete cover up job...but its better the news comes out later that they botched it up..better yet that they should leak their own investigation..so when the actual report comes out its like well we knew this already.

You know I had exactly the same thought at the time but I did not question it as every media outlet was running with the interview of one particuar guy saying he ran in tripped had a bulky winter coat and wires sticking out.

Apparently the police involved and their immediate families were on all expenses paid holidays the following week too.

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You know I had exactly the same thought at the time but I did not question it as every media outlet was running with the interview of one particuar guy saying he ran in tripped had a bulky winter coat and wires sticking out.

Apparently the police involved and their immediate families were on all expenses paid holidays the following week too.

The question is, where is the CCTV footage? You can't pick your nose on the undergroud without being spotted nowadays.

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The question is, where is the CCTV footage?  You can't pick your nose on the undergroud without being spotted nowadays.

It was in the paper at the weekend, that the CCTV wasn't working due to maintence!! - <_<

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The other plane crash in Venezuela was also in odd circumstances,

Both engines out, yet apartently it was travelling over the Vne (Velocity never exceed, the speed which an aircraft should never exceed because it it could not withstand the stress on the airframe)

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"Earlier Sir Ian Blair, Britain's top police officer, mounted his staunchest defence yet of the firearms officers who shot Mr De Menezes, whom they had mistaken for a suicide bomber.

The Scotland Yard commissioner refused to discuss the death in detail as it was now the subject of the IPCC inquiry.

He described the shooting as a tragedy for which the Metropolitan police took full responsibility but commended the officers involved for their bravery, saying they had rushed towards what could have been their deaths.

"Whatever else they were doing, they clearly thought they were faced with a suicide bomber and they were running towards him," he told the Metropolitan police authority. "Had that person been a suicide bomber, and had the officers not fired and the tube doors closed, and 25 yards up the track the bomb had exploded with terrible loss of life, the officers would be in a worse situation than they are now."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/s...1538540,00.html

At the time I assumed that whatever Sir Ian told us must be what actually happened - you'd think he'd know. As it turns out he was wrong and I've been made to look like an idiot for supporting the original account. The way this has been handled by the police and media is unbelieveable (literally).

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/s...1538540,00.html

At the time I assumed that whatever Sir Ian told us must be what actually happened - you'd think he'd know. As it turns out he was wrong and I've been made to look like an idiot for supporting the original account. The way this has been handled by the police and media is unbelieveable (literally).

To anyone of us all with sense it just clearly highlights how easily we can and/or are lied to daily. It makes me mad. :angry:

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Regarding the Brazilian I don,t know what you expect?

Lets face it the guy was in the country living illegaly in the same place as one of the suspects going to a tube station and was shot. Very sad agreed and I am not suggesting we should shoot all illegal imigrants but at the same time mistakes are made when people carry guns no matter how well trained people are.......they are f*cking dangerous!

You guys don,t know if the Helios jet was blown up the Brazilin shot sitting down any more than I do but whats your alternative solution to this scenario & the Brazilian scenario as all I see here is a anti-everything whinge and no alternate ideas?

For instance why not focus on the fact that the real suspect (after the second failed bombing occurance) was apprehended using a tazer gun which is extremly dangerous practice when bombs are around as the lazer is likely to set of any electrical device and BOOOM!

Or....focus on how well the emergency services coped after the appalling mass murder that day?

Or....how would you fare if you were in the situation carrying the gun?

I find it a bit much that you people are sitting in front of a computer screen banging on when you have no idea of the frightening stark realities and responsibilitys of such split second decisions.

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To anyone of us all with sense it just clearly highlights how easily we can and/or are lied to daily. It makes me mad.  :angry:

I wonder how many other lies we are told to benefit the government's interests?

Iraq had propaganda, other past enemies had propaganda - How come the UK only ever has "SPIN"???!!

Maybe I am naive/ uneducated/ am ignorant to a subtle difference, but I had never heard this word until I arrived in the UK.

Why can't we call this phenomenon by its real name - or better and more simply still, "lies"?

It seems that even the obvious euphemism, "spin" is propaganda in itself!

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You will recall at the time that I said the guy was basically executed. I was criticised for jumping to conclusions. I was told to wait. Wait for what? Wait for everyone to get their story "straight" presumably.

I watch a lot of rolling news (trading allows / requires it) and I have to tell you, from experience, that it is those moments when the camers first arrive and people haven't had time to talk to the PR dept or spin doctors that you get the real story.

Do yourselves a favour and take on eday of your hols to watch rolling news all day. Then compare it to "The Six." Someday's you'd swear you were living in a parallel universe.

As for the shot down plane ShakerB. Very interesting indeed.

Conspiracy theories really are not my thing: you won't find a single Dan Brown in my fiction collection, so please, less of the Kennedy jibes.

As for FernandoMorientes, I of course acknowledge your very valid points. I make fairly heavy decisions all day trading, and I believe the Pentagon had the military visit Wall St traders to help them make decisions under pressure. To my mind that is a gross insult to the military: how can money decisions come close to the pressures of life or death ones?

Nonetheless, there are ALWAYS witnesses to such "collateral damage" and the truth will always come out, be it as a rumour or enquiry. It is the injustices perpetrated during these errors of judgement that allow angry and vulnerable minds to be twisted. I'm sure you can see this. Fo rthis reason alone we should do all we can to behave in a measured manner and when mistakes occur, stop at nothing to root out the truth and take any corrective action we can.

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this happened to the small private jet for the american golfer a couple of years ago. anyone remember ? the cabin de-pressurized slowly and all the crew and the passenger (a known pro golfer) all died quietly in their seats. the plane flew on over several states before running out of fuel. this was pre sept 11th. the following plane said all crew could be seen slumped as in this case.

when a plane is at altitude it requires oxygen for people to breathe. if this malfunctions everyone gets drowsy and groggy and passes out.

though the plane should have continued on auto pilot until fuel ran out. not sure why it would go down. unless it gradually flew lower and lower on a set downward course.

either way, the slumpy jet pilots were not simply grabbing some extra shuteye, or kipping on the job. they probably died of asphyxiation without realising it, slowly drifiting off to sleep forever.

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I watch a lot of rolling news (trading allows / requires it) and I have to tell you, from experience, that it is those moments when the camers first arrive and people haven't had time to talk to the PR dept or spin doctors that you get the real story.

so true. in a similar situation.

you hit the nail on the head. when a story is breaking thats when you get the real news. whenever theres a huge story breaking. I read and watch everything. so often stuff gets on air that later they will not show footage of or refer to. This simply because in the inital stage its a camera man and a street reporter and he is beaming back in live to the studio and theres no time to filter it. after the first hour then you get your star "that face we all know and trust" reporter and story starts to get shaped and presented.

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Regarding the Brazilian I don,t know what you expect?

Lets face it  the guy was in the country living illegaly in the same place as one of the suspects going to a tube station and was shot. Very sad agreed and I am not suggesting we should shoot all illegal imigrants but at the same time mistakes are made when people carry guns no matter how well trained people are.......they are f*cking dangerous!

You guys don,t know if the Helios jet was blown up the Brazilin shot sitting down any more than I do but whats your alternative solution to this scenario & the Brazilian scenario as all I see here is a anti-everything whinge and no alternate ideas?

For instance  why not focus on the fact that the real suspect (after the second failed bombing occurance) was apprehended using a tazer gun which is extremly dangerous practice when bombs are around as the lazer is likely to set of any electrical device and BOOOM!

Or....focus on how well the emergency services coped after the appalling mass murder that day?

Or....how would you fare if you were in the situation carrying the gun?

I find it a bit much that you people are sitting in front of a computer screen banging on when you have no idea of the frightening stark realities and responsibilitys of such split second decisions.

We've been misled for weeks. First by 'eye witnesses' , then by the police and then the national press/media. In the mean time we've formed and expressed opinions based on untruths. Are you surprised today's papers have made some people a little cynical? How would you feel about the taser incident if it was announced that he'd been taken down by an attack dog, or the backpacks of the bombers were filled with flour after-all? You'd feel like a right idiot for believing the original story, and that's what happened in the case of De Menezes. Infact, who knows what really happened, who do we believe now?

Also, what does his immigration status have to do with anything? I don't know why you even mentioned it. And what are you talking about "anti-everything whinge and no alternate ideas". Could you be more specific?

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We've been misled for weeks. First by 'eye witnesses' , then by the police and then the national press/media. In the mean time we've formed and expressed opinions based on untruths. Are you surprised today's papers have made some people a little cynical? How would you feel about the taser incident if it was announced that he'd been taken down by an attack dog, or the backpacks of the bombers were filled with flour after-all? You'd feel like a right idiot for believing the original story, and that's what happened in the case of De Menezes. Infact, who knows what really happened, who do we believe now?

The trouble is for everyone who has a brain and actually uses it they will realise that we have now very publicly been lied to on mass from the disheveled and shocked 'eye witnesses' on the ground to the nicely turned out news anchorman. I dont know who to believe now because when they have lied to you once what can you believe. :unsure:

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You will recall at the time that I said the guy was basically executed. I was criticised for jumping to conclusions. I was told to wait.

Sledge,

yes I do recall this. The site [HPC] was down a lot over the following week so I didn't get a chance to say "you were right". I'm still not sure how you reached your conclusion so quickly though - were you certain, or just at 55%?

I am pretty shocked at the revelations from the Brazilian-going-about-his-daily-business-in-London-has-head-blown-off case.

We have been lied to (again). :angry:

JY

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We've been misled for weeks. First by 'eye witnesses' , then by the police and then the national press/media. In the mean time we've formed and expressed opinions based on untruths. Are you surprised today's papers have made some people a little cynical? How would you feel about the taser incident if it was announced that he'd been taken down by an attack dog, or the backpacks of the bombers were filled with flour after-all? You'd feel like a right idiot for believing the original story, and that's what happened in the case of De Menezes. Infact, who knows what really happened, who do we believe now?

Also, what does his immigration status have to do with anything? I don't know why you even mentioned it. And what are you talking about "anti-everything whinge and no alternate ideas". Could you be more specific?

I would say that the immigration status is a big thing. Which is why he might have tried to shake the police.

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I would say that the immigration status is a big thing.  Which is why he might have tried to shake the police.

But he didnt try to shake the police as he was sitting on the tube so his immigration status has nothing to do with it.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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