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Monkey_Boy

Ot: The Meaning Of The Word "save"

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Listening to the radio this morning on my way into work I heard an advert explaining how much money you could save by buying the advertisers particular car.

Traditionally saving has been seen as a good thing, people who save money by building a nest egg were seen as role models. When I was young poeple were encouraged to open savings accounts for their children.

Over the past ten years the meaning of the word has shifted away from putting money away to getting a discount when you spend. Lets get this straight saving money on a special offer is NOT saving, you are still SPENDING money. The use of the word has shifted in the english language, no doubt by marketeers trying to create positive associations with spending large ammounts of money.

Perhaps it is time for a new word for saving money (in the traditional sense), anyone got any suggestions? - squirreling?

P.S. Sorry for the rant.

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lol,

I had exactly the same experience driving in my car.

Was an advert for Curtains, and it finished with...

"So now you've saved all that money, think of the things you can buy..."

I was shocked, these adverts brainwash people!

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Listening to the radio this morning on my way into work I heard an advert explaining how much money you could save by buying the advertisers particular car.

Traditionally saving has been seen as a good thing, people who save money by building a nest egg were seen as role models. When I was young poeple were encouraged to open savings accounts for their children.

Over the past ten years the meaning of the word has shifted away from putting money away to getting a discount when you spend. Lets get this straight saving money on a special offer is NOT saving, you are still SPENDING money. The use of the word has shifted in the english language, no doubt by marketeers trying to create positive associations with spending large ammounts of money.

Perhaps it is time for a new word for saving money (in the traditional sense), anyone got any suggestions? - squirreling?

P.S. Sorry for the rant.

Verb: ECO (economic conscientious objection)

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Brainwashing, quite. What amazes me is that what starts out as someones great new idea for selling more curtains ends up changing the way people think about money.

Perhaps there will be a new word for buying a house... Mewving?

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Monkey Boy,

That's a nice piece of original thinking. Shame it's somebody elses! :P

This in response to a plug from "MoneySavingExpert's" Martin Lewis:

Martin,

forgive me for speaking plainly. You claim to be the "Uk's ONLY money saving expert."

I see that you intend to show no features on investment. I find this perplexing. Investing is the inflation proofed side of saving, yet as the UK's only money saving expert you ignore it. Indeed, it would appear that your definition of saving revolves entirely around consuming, even when facilitated by debt. Isn't this so obviously the antithesis of saving?

To me this is just so much more of the 1984 speak we have all become so used to. War is peace, occupation is freedom, bubbles & crashes are "no more boom & bust", costs are investmets and now, consuming (all be it more responsibly) is saving.

I forsee a future of finacially illiterate debtors, who when surveyed as to whether they are regular savers reply in the vein of : "Yes, I save 10% everytime I buy with this clubcard."

Surely Martin, if you are the UK's expert on anything it has to be borrowing & spending. C'mon, come clean. The savers here will respect you all the more for it!

Still, great minds and all that!

PS: I suppose we can now look forward to the January Saves?

Edited by Sledgehead

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Great minds think alike. I don't remember reading your original comment, but it could be one of those subliminal things. Perhaps if we keep subliminally posting the idea we can brainwash the masses to think they have been brainwashed and start saving a bit of money again!

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Perhaps if we keep subliminally posting the idea we can brainwash the masses to think they have been brainwashed and start saving a bit of money again!

I didn't really get all that. All I remember is you saying: "You're back in the room."

Now, tell me: how many gadgets, nights out, clothes and cars did you say I should be putting in a pension per month?

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Interesting thoughts...I'm currently saving as much dough as I can (whilst renting).

I have to say that the low-interest rates don't exactly make this a "fun" experience.

Hopefully my time will come and the savers amongst us will be rewarded.

High interest rates + house price falls = bliss.

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thanks for taking the time to post that Doc. First time I've read such an interpretation of the possible consequences of the "one" account.

Always nice to see original stuff.

You've undoubtedly tweaked my mental model for the better.

--------

Less seriously, on a theological note the world's two largest religions have similar approaches to money and credit: Islam forbids borrowing whilst Jesus saves.

:P

Edited by Sledgehead

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The combined mortgage and savings accounts have bothered me in the past. I am suspicious of them. On the surface they look good but I took the view that in practice they are not really worth it. I never really did the calculations but my thinking went like this (in no particular order):

1 I prefer my lender not to know what savings I have.

2 Putting all your savings into paying off the mortgage is putting all your eggs in one basket.

3 The "daily interest calculation" feature is a bit OTT as most people run their finances on a monthly basis. For example, I overpay my mortgage in monthly payments. Daily interest does not really benefit here, as long as I time my monthly payment to best effect. Monthly interest calculation is vital though, as I believe older mortgages were commonly calculated yearly.

4 Having savings lumped in with mortgage debt muddies the water. It also perhaps leads to less liquidity (it is always good to have emergency funds for immediate access). I feel that this muddying is deliberate so as to get people confused about their overall picture. I also suspect that they provide this easy overpayment method to disguise the fact that it's also easy to essentially MEW and they would prefer you to do that. Perhaps I'm wrong about the last point.

5 If the banks are pushing these then there must be something in it for them.

In the end, I have taken the simple repayment route with a flexible (i.e. no penalties) overpayment facility. I overpay once a month with a standing order, that I can change or cancel how I see fit.

Alongside this, I have savings with other providers. However, my emphasis is on paying off the debt first.

Once my debt is paid off, my overpayment standing order will be cancelled and changed to point to some sort of savings vehicle. This way, there will be no change in my outgoings. Only the destination will change.

I feel that a combined mortgage and savings vehicle would simply confuse this situation.

Edited by aclwalker

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I feel that a combined mortgage and savings vehicle would simply confuse this situation.

I see you point. Just pay it off early. You don't need a combined account. The only advantage of a One Account is that you can pull money out of your house at a moments notice, which does add value.

The government wants you to spend, not save. So they tax your savings. By not 'saving' and making extra repayments on your mortgage you make 6% or so tax free. If you're a top rate taxpayer that's like receiving 10% on your savings guaranteed. Try getting that return in today's low yield environment!

Seems like a no-brainer tax dodge to me. If property crashes down 40% like 1989, then yes, you're back to square one.

Thinking about it, I'm amazed anyone with a mortgage should have any traditional savings, why risk your capital (a bond yielding 10% is very risky!) and pay tax when you don't have to?

Whoa! I'm turning in a bull!

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Over the past ten years the meaning of the word has shifted away from putting money away to getting a discount when you spend.

Perhaps this is why people aren't spending so much in the retail sector these days.

They can no longer afford to "save" any more money. :lol:

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The combined mortgage and savings accounts have bothered me in the past.  I am suspicious of them.  On the surface they look good but I took the view that in practice they are not really worth it.  I never really did the calculations but my thinking went like this (in no particular order):

1  I prefer my lender not to know what savings I have.

2  Putting all your savings into paying off the mortgage is putting all your eggs in one basket.

3  The "daily interest calculation" feature is a bit OTT as most people run their finances on a monthly basis.  For example, I overpay my mortgage in monthly payments.  Daily interest does not really benefit here, as long as I time my monthly payment to best effect.  Monthly interest calculation is vital though, as I believe older mortgages were commonly calculated yearly.

4  Having savings lumped in with mortgage debt muddies the water.  It also perhaps leads to less liquidity (it is always good to have emergency funds for immediate access).  I feel that this muddying is deliberate so as to get people confused about their overall picture.  I also suspect that they provide this easy overpayment method to disguise the fact that it's also easy to essentially MEW and they would prefer you to do that.  Perhaps I'm wrong about the last point.

5  If the banks are pushing these then there must be something in it for them.

In the end, I have taken the simple repayment route with a flexible (i.e. no penalties) overpayment facility.  I overpay once a month with a standing order, that I can change or cancel how I see fit.

Alongside this, I have savings with other providers.  However, my emphasis is on paying off the debt first.

Once my debt is paid off, my overpayment standing order will be cancelled and changed to point to some sort of savings vehicle.  This way, there will be no change in my outgoings.  Only the destination will change.

I feel that a combined mortgage and savings vehicle would simply confuse this situation.

I believe the One Account is a good idea for the finacially disciplined, but the APR you pay is far higher than other mortgages. I think the One Account is 7%APR (last time I looked) but you can get a mortgage for 5-5.5%APR easy!

The banks will win big time on this, as it is much more easy to MEW. And as the masses don't have a clue about real 'saving' they will spend that money paying more on the mortgage.

If the rate was more like the BoE rate (plus say 0.25%) I would definately go for it. Until then I shall be getting a fixed morgage (If I could afford a house :unsure: ) which you can get at around the BoE interest rate.

Edited by Jason

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I believe the One Account is a good idea for the finacially disciplined, but the APR you pay is far higher than other mortgages.  I think the One Account is 7%APR (last time I looked) but you can get a mortgage for 5-5.5%APR easy!

The banks will win big time on this, as it is much more easy to MEW. And as the masses don't have a clue about real 'saving' they will spend that money paying more on the mortgage.

If the rate was more like the BoE rate (plus say 0.25%) I would definately go for it. Until then I shall be getting a fixed morgage (If I could afford a house  :unsure: ) which you can get at around the BoE interest rate.

For a standard 10% deposit in the early years, and ordinary sort of savings (say 300 quid a month) unless the interest rate is no more than .25 or so, then a one account of any sort doesn't make sense. (Abbey was advertising one that did recently but I don't know how long that will last) I did the calculations. Unless you have a huge deposit, your better off putting the money in an interest bearing account at the highest rate available and paying the 20% tax. You wil still be better off! Assuming a standard morgage rate of 4.75 which is quite reasonable for a first time buyer and a mortgage of 120K. Even if you "get" 5.7 % on your £10k odd (£570), you are paying .95 on the other £110K (£1,045). Now add to that the £240 interest you would get (at a miserly 3% once the tax is taken out as a demonstration only - I hope you would find a better deal) and I am seeing a saving of negative £615! Of course the loss reduces over time...

Once you have around 40/60 savings to mortgage it may well make sense and do the numbers again!

This mortgage otherwise known as the Aussie mortgage, really needs to be looked at a bit deeper before diving in!

And don't forget that the higher the interest rate on the one facility deal the greater benefit of your negative savings gain!!!

Edited by Elizabeth

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didnt the government say that 'savers would save the economy' back in 2000 ?

(after the dot com crash.)

we were promised that those hell raisers at the post office national saving account desks will kick the economies ass......

only savers are generally very borning and not likley to rush out and buy stacks of plasmas or plain v neck t-shirts 3x per pack from matalan. £1.97p.

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Does anyone here have a one account. I'm interested to know what the statement says each month. something like "your account is now only -£145000" would sh1t the life out of me !

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
didnt the government say that 'savers would save the economy' back in 2000 ?

(after the dot com crash.)

Well they did, every £8 they saved allowed the banks to lend out a £100.

How do you think this massive debt bubble was created, it was those b****y stupid savers. :P

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I see you point. Just pay it off early. You don't need a combined account. The only advantage of a One Account is that you can pull money out of your house at a moments notice, which does add value.

The main advantage as I saw it was that my steadily swelling current account was essentially earning me interest at the full mortage rate, tax free. Perhaps not such a big deal for a basic rate taxpayer like myself, but a pretty big deal for higher rate taxpayers.

Of course you have to balance that with the slightly higher interest rate on the mortgage (usually) and the fact that there's usually a fairly chunky fee to transfer in.

Having said all that, I think it's safe to say that banks/BSs didn't introduce these things for our benefit, no matter what the smiley folk in the adverts might say. They did it because they know if you put temptation in people's way, sooner or later many will bite.

You can't blame the banks though, they're businesses after all, not charities, and exploiting human weaknesses is what capitalism is all about... at least, so it says in my Ladybird Book of Marxism. :-)

Andrew McP

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The main advantage as I saw it was that my steadily swelling current account was essentially earning me interest at the full mortage rate, tax free. Perhaps not such a big deal for a basic rate taxpayer like myself, but a pretty big deal for higher rate taxpayers.

Andrew McP

Another big plus of a One account is if your a credit card stoozer, then big chunks of debt can be offset (even if only for short period) against 'stoozed' savings. - Reducing total interest owed, and allowing faster repayment of the capital :D

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The main advantage as I saw it was that my steadily swelling current account was essentially earning me interest at the full mortage rate, tax free. Perhaps not such a big deal for a basic rate taxpayer like myself, but a pretty big deal for higher rate taxpayers.

Of course you have to balance that with the slightly higher interest rate on the mortgage (usually) and the fact that there's usually a fairly chunky fee to transfer in.

Having said all that, I think it's safe to say that banks/BSs didn't introduce these things for our benefit, no matter what the smiley folk in the adverts might say. They did it because they know if you put temptation in people's way, sooner or later many will bite.

You can't blame the banks though, they're businesses after all, not charities, and exploiting human weaknesses is what capitalism is all about...  at least, so it says in my Ladybird Book of Marxism. :-)

Andrew McP

Andrew. Mate. Iit not about temptation. It about that balancing off of the interest rate. Its about taking advantage of people who can't do maths.

It seems so great to get such high interest on your miniscule savings. What nobody works out is how much you end up spending on your substantial debt. Unless you have a LOT of savings, your better off with a normal morgage at 1% less and putting your savings in an account with 0% interest. See my previous posting for an example.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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