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Us Firm Wins Uk Tank-Making Deal

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8580266.stm

US defence firm General Dynamics has won a contract to build a new light tank for the British Army.

The firm, which plans to manufacture most of the new tank in the UK, beat rival bidder BAE Systems - where 500 under-threat jobs will now be lost.

The news is a blow for BAE's factory in Newcastle, which was earmarked to build the company's tank.

General Dynamics UK claims that the contract will safeguard or create 10,500 jobs in the UK.

The new light tank is designed to replace the Scimitar scout vehicle, providing troops with more protection and firepower.

The contract is reported to be worth £4bn ($6bn).

Jobs blow

BAE had planned to build its contender at its Newcastle plant, protecting or creating 800 jobs in the region.

However following the tank decision 500 job losses, announced last year, will now go ahead across England.

It had hoped to prevent the job losses if the new contract had been secured.

..........

He also said that the majority of manufacturing would take place in the UK, ensuring UK skills and capabilities in the armoured vehicle sector are retained.

Has General Dynamics got a large presence in the UK already? How many people do General Dynamics already employ in the UK?

So the contract is worth around £4bn is it safe to assume that when this new tank doesn't work it will end up costing the taxpayer nearer £10bn as it will need continual refits etc...

Gordon Brown helping to send yet more UK tax money overseas in aid of the global recovery.

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Don't really see your point. Part of the contract is to do some of the work *in the UK* so it'll still keep jobs etc. here.

BAE were probably using those 500 odd jobs as a crude political bargaining stick anyway - they own a number of US tank companies so would probably have done at least some of the work over there. The UK workers would probably just be assembling bits and making customisations - where's the real skill in that?

Plus, which company do you think is running most of the UK defence contracts that keep going over budget? About time they were exposed to some real competition so that the UK can get more for its money.

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Don't really see your point. Part of the contract is to do some of the work *in the UK* so it'll still keep jobs etc. here.

BAE were probably using those 500 odd jobs as a crude political bargaining stick anyway - they own a number of US tank companies so would probably have done at least some of the work over there. The UK workers would probably just be assembling bits and making customisations - where's the real skill in that?

Plus, which company do you think is running most of the UK defence contracts that keep going over budget? About time they were exposed to some real competition so that the UK can get more for its money.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j_kti57Syt1s-eTjZO7_0wVLh8eA

Many major US weapons programs are running over budget and lagging behind promised production schedules, a report by an independent US auditor said Monday.

The cost of the 96 largest defense programs reached 1.6 trillion dollars in fiscal year 2008, 25 percent higher than planned under initial budgets, said the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the investigative arm of Congress.

For these weapons projects, "the average delay in delivering initial capabilities has increased to 22 months," the GAO report said.

The cost overruns and delays were partly due to older weapons programs, with newer projects tending to operate more within planned budgets and production schedules, it said.

The report comes as President Barack Obama's administration seeks to scale back some costly weapons programs in the vast US defense budget, the world's largest.

Obama has proposed 533.7 billion dollars for the main defense budget, which does not include most of the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The president and Defense Secretary Robert Gates have vowed to reform the way the Pentagon funds new weapons amid criticism programs have been rushed ahead without sufficient testing and technology.

Among the projects facing possible budget cuts is a hi-tech network linking US Army soldiers and vehicles, known as Future Combat Systems (FCS), led by defense industry giant Boeing.

The GAO said the cost of the Future Combat Systems' project reached 130 billion at the end of 2007, an increase of 44.5 percent compared to initial estimates in 2003.

The cost of the F-22 Raptor fighter jet program, a Lochkeed Martin aircraft, rose to about 5.9 billion dollars, an increase of 62.7 percent over its initial 2003 budget. And the program is running 33 months behind its promised timeline, according to the GAO.

Thank god US companies are far better at getting things done on time and under budget.

Your point is well made.

Edited by interestrateripoff

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Brits are so gutless. When are you all going to grow a spine?

When EADS won the refuelling tanker contract Uncle Sam spat the dummy out and cancelled the tenders. They then rewrote the contracts so that only Boeing could win. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

When the Raptor was cancelled everyone including the UK, OZ and Japan thought 'so what' we'll buy the cheaper Lightning F35, then it became clear that Lockheed Martin wouldn't let anyone, including Britain, have the software codes to the flight and weapons controls. That means sovreign nations can't check to see if there is an off switch built in to prevent use against the USA or whoever it chooses to be an allie on the day. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

When EADS first tried to sell Eurofighter to the Indians and others the US tried to ban the sales on the basis that it would transfer US technologies - all present in the planes they were offering up in competition. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

Now we see we cant build our own tanks. Just roll over guys and put your bum up in the air....... or grow a spine.

As far as I can tell there has only been one successful creation of a non-US corporate megalith in recent history and that's Airbus. 'Manifest Destiny' drives American protectionism and you are about to see what that really means if Krugman holds sway over the House and Senate. A strong Europe is the only counterbalance that can prevent future wars between the USA and rising Asia. Britain needs to grow some balls and start leading from within Europe.

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Don't really see your point. Part of the contract is to do some of the work *in the UK* so it'll still keep jobs etc. here.

BAE were probably using those 500 odd jobs as a crude political bargaining stick anyway - they own a number of US tank companies so would probably have done at least some of the work over there. The UK workers would probably just be assembling bits and making customisations - where's the real skill in that?

Plus, which company do you think is running most of the UK defence contracts that keep going over budget? About time they were exposed to some real competition so that the UK can get more for its money.

"Made in UK" label manufactured and applied in UK, I should think.

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General Dynamics has a large prescence in Wales.

The GD tank is capable of a 45 tonne load whereas the BAE one was only 35 tonnes capable meaning the GD one can lift more and has more future-proofing when they need to add more things like armour, bigger guns, etc, etc.

The GD tank is ready, works and is very good. The BAE one has all the potential to become another Tornado, Merlin, etc, etc, etc.

Knowing the MOD they will have ordered the tanks with tracks and engines and it will take 20 years and billions more to get them added. It will not be Brown's fault.

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"US defence firm General Dynamics has won a contract to build a new light tank for the British Army."

thats cut backs for you. wonder which war they are sending it to?

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BAE is just another heavily subsidised-by-uk-taxpayer inneficient manufacturer. Bottom line is this is all politics and nowt to do with costs. Is it uk treasury sending a message to bae ie stop overspending ?

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BAE is just another heavily subsidised-by-uk-taxpayer inneficient manufacturer. Bottom line is this is all politics and nowt to do with costs. Is it uk treasury sending a message to bae ie stop overspending ?

The BAE tank was basically just a bigger version of the now very old scorpion, scimitar, spartan chasis - I mean, for the all the money they got to develop something they could have done more than just do that!

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Brits are so gutless. When are you all going to grow a spine?

When EADS won the refuelling tanker contract Uncle Sam spat the dummy out and cancelled the tenders. They then rewrote the contracts so that only Boeing could win. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

When the Raptor was cancelled everyone including the UK, OZ and Japan thought 'so what' we'll buy the cheaper Lightning F35, then it became clear that Lockheed Martin wouldn't let anyone, including Britain, have the software codes to the flight and weapons controls. That means sovreign nations can't check to see if there is an off switch built in to prevent use against the USA or whoever it chooses to be an allie on the day. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

When EADS first tried to sell Eurofighter to the Indians and others the US tried to ban the sales on the basis that it would transfer US technologies - all present in the planes they were offering up in competition. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

Now we see we cant build our own tanks. Just roll over guys and put your bum up in the air....... or grow a spine.

As far as I can tell there has only been one successful creation of a non-US corporate megalith in recent history and that's Airbus. 'Manifest Destiny' drives American protectionism and you are about to see what that really means if Krugman holds sway over the House and Senate. A strong Europe is the only counterbalance that can prevent future wars between the USA and rising Asia. Britain needs to grow some balls and start leading from within Europe.

Great post bpw - It almost amazes me people in the UK whinge about being part of Europe, but there quite happy to ignore or be in denial the fact that there airforce, nuclear weapons, intelligence services are effectively run by the US. That the US will put their self interest first at all times, as you mentioned above do their best to ensure that there companies get contracts, they keep codes locked so that Britain cannot control their own Nuclear Weapons.

You can't blame the US I suppose, there just looking after themselves, they must look at European Goverments and just laugh at us.

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look if you are going to spend yet more borrowed money on some willy waving hardware for christs sake at least spend it on jobs and i.p. in the UK.

the yanks will control absolutely all the i.p. and we will become forever dependent on importing willies.

The MOD of course always cause an overspend because they think we are still living the days of the empire and should be some sort of super power.

Of course you do realise that the 'carriers' are going to use entirely US made aircraft and are probably going to cost 2bn more to fit a fancy US catapult system. All the technology will be US owned so we may as well buy from China. I'm sure they would be a lot cheaper.

Good old Tories, spreadsheet short term economics at its best.

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I was under the impression that tanks are pretty well redundant.

Isn't the future in helicopters?

Helicopters are rubbish for domestic policing... a light tank at the end of the road on the other hand, well, that sends a message.

Edited by RichB

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Brits are so gutless. When are you all going to grow a spine?

When EADS won the refuelling tanker contract Uncle Sam spat the dummy out and cancelled the tenders. They then rewrote the contracts so that only Boeing could win. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

When the Raptor was cancelled everyone including the UK, OZ and Japan thought 'so what' we'll buy the cheaper Lightning F35, then it became clear that Lockheed Martin wouldn't let anyone, including Britain, have the software codes to the flight and weapons controls. That means sovreign nations can't check to see if there is an off switch built in to prevent use against the USA or whoever it chooses to be an allie on the day. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

When EADS first tried to sell Eurofighter to the Indians and others the US tried to ban the sales on the basis that it would transfer US technologies - all present in the planes they were offering up in competition. Brown just rolled over and put your bums up in the air.

Now we see we cant build our own tanks. Just roll over guys and put your bum up in the air....... or grow a spine.

As far as I can tell there has only been one successful creation of a non-US corporate megalith in recent history and that's Airbus. 'Manifest Destiny' drives American protectionism and you are about to see what that really means if Krugman holds sway over the House and Senate. A strong Europe is the only counterbalance that can prevent future wars between the USA and rising Asia. Britain needs to grow some balls and start leading from within Europe.

Spot on. It's sickening and pervades UK society. It comes from the fact that the english hate the english, particularly your lefty / liberal fabian guardian reader type although the tories aren't much better, particularly when the yanks are concerned. Nothing will change, what's left of the country's industry will be hollowed out.

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The firm, which plans to manufacture most of the new tank in the UK, beat rival bidder BAE Systems - where 500 under-threat jobs will now be lost.

BAE did not seen to worry about British jobs when they closed down the Hiatts factory in Birmingham in 2008.

This is the brilliant TCH range. This new thrusting company operates from the old Hiatts factory in Baltimore Road Birmingham, a charming residential area! BAE Systems, an essentially British Company decided to close down Hiatts, having acquired them as part of Armor Holdings. Why they closed down a very well established profitable company employing quite a number of people, God only knows. These accountants are such wonderful people, if only a few of them were human!

http://www.thehandcuffshop.com/index.cfm?category=307&shop_action=view_products

Edited by Take Me Back To London!

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look if you are going to spend yet more borrowed money on some willy waving hardware for christs sake at least spend it on jobs and i.p. in the UK.

the yanks will control absolutely all the i.p. and we will become forever dependent on importing willies.

The MOD of course always cause an overspend because they think we are still living the days of the empire and should be some sort of super power.

It pretty simple; we in the UK have such a small requirement for tanks that it would be very expensive to design and build our own (the development cost being amortised over a very small number of units). Add in the risk that the UK design wouldn't work very well (being designed on the cheap) and the fact that the genuinely high tech equipment (what you call the IP) in each vehicle will probably need to be brought in from the US anyway, this decision makes a lot of sense.

Good old Tories, spreadsheet short term economics at its best.

I am afraid it is you that lacks economic knowledge. The Yanks are going to produce a tank whatever we do. Knowing them they will throw money at the design until it works, then build them in large numbers. This will make them cheap.

If we buy them we get a cheap good quality tank and have money left over to spend on other more useful stuff. Win win.

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It pretty simple; we in the UK have such a small requirement for tanks that it would be very expensive to design and build our own (the development cost being amortised over a very small number of units). Add in the risk that the UK design wouldn't work very well (being designed on the cheap) and the fact that the genuinely high tech equipment (what you call the IP) in each vehicle will probably need to be brought in from the US anyway, this decision makes a lot of sense.

I am afraid it is you that lacks economic knowledge. The Yanks are going to produce a tank whatever we do. Knowing them they will throw money at the design until it works, then build them in large numbers. This will make them cheap.

If we buy them we get a cheap good quality tank and have money left over to spend on other more useful stuff. Win win.

no lose lose lose

exactly what I was talking about, ok let me explain, it's called investing for the long term and accepting a longer term pay back.

You invest up front, make a good product keep what you want and export a shed load more around the world which was what we used to do before the short term Thatcherite economics. The products end up costing the UK nothing. Also you have a load of I.P. which you can use and adapt to other products you can also sell around the world. I know this is a very difficult concept to grasp, it's called working and being smart by investing long term in the future.

But thats too complicated for tory ****** wits. What they want is loads of free money supplied by everyone else and for other people to shut up and work for nothing while they piss it all away on 'financial products' which don't actually exist.

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I was under the impression that tanks are pretty well redundant.

Isn't the future in helicopters?

Nope, helicopters cant hold ground, modern battlefields need both.

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So the US got the UK tank contract for the British Army and the eu got the Indian contract for the Indian Air Force combat aircraft.

UK contractors must all be busy building windmill farms.

Edited by billybong

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What do we need these tanks for?

Knowing the MOD they will have ordered the tanks with tracks and engines and it will take 20 years and billions more to get them added. It will not be Brown's fault.

I was under the impression that tanks are pretty well redundant.

Isn't the future in helicopters?

Tanks are not much use on the battlefield anymore since infantry carry anti tank missiles and smarter enemies merely don't fight toe to toe and go into urban environments where tanks are weak.

However tanks are excellent for internal security and suppression.

A police man is just a man and a sharpened stick/pitch fork can quickly dispatch such internal security forces. But what have you got in your house that can take out a tank? RPG29s aren't really civilian issue.

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It pretty simple; we in the UK have such a small requirement for tanks that it would be very expensive to design and build our own (the development cost being amortised over a very small number of units). Add in the risk that the UK design wouldn't work very well (being designed on the cheap) and the fact that the genuinely high tech equipment (what you call the IP) in each vehicle will probably need to be brought in from the US anyway, this decision makes a lot of sense.

I am afraid it is you that lacks economic knowledge. The Yanks are going to produce a tank whatever we do. Knowing them they will throw money at the design until it works, then build them in large numbers. This will make them cheap.

If we buy them we get a cheap good quality tank and have money left over to spend on other more useful stuff. Win win.

Why wouldnt the uk design work very well? Challenger2 is one of the best mbt's around and there has been no problem selling the export version. You ever seen one of those fine yankee abrahams - total pile of shyte. Throwing money at it didnt produce a good tank.....

actually, thinking about it, chally2 is a pile of crap. There are tonnes of problems with it. And given the record of uk defense procurement and production then I dont see as we have anything to lose. There is a long list of fked up rubbish knocked out over here that spans everything from SA80's that fall apart to saxon vehicles that fall over.

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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