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I'm trying to find out how much support we would get if I went ahead and actually tried to organize some sort of protest against "the unfair and misguided government support for the high housing costs Ponzi pyramid scheme" (quote from tired of waiting).

If some sort of march or protest was organized, would you turn up?

What form would you suggest that it takes?

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Mmm.............no takers. I think you might need a shorter slogan. My banner would be too big with that one!

Yer - bit disappointed. With all of the frustration and anger expressed on here I though people would be more up for it. Seems not :rolleyes:

Oh well - I guess we will just carry on being a society of property rampers cheering on the miracle economy and the mighty recovery. :angry:

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Yer - bit disappointed.  With all of the frustration and anger expressed on here I though people would be more up for it.  Seems not  :rolleyes:

Oh well - I guess we will just carry on being a society of property rampers cheering on the miracle economy and the mighty recovery.  :angry:

In fairness, we live all over the country. Little point in having a protest where there are only 20 people there. Better to keep sniping away like yesterday. Just keep drip feeding the message.

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I'm out. The government aren't explicitly supporting high housing costs anyway. What exactly are your demands?

What do you mean by housing costs? Council housing and Housing Association housing is relatively cheap isn't it? Or are you not concerned about that? Private rents are generally coming down.

The only change I'd like is to the rental market to make it more like the European model of long-term leases. That way far fewer renters would even want to buy a house and half the problems we currently have would go away.

If you're saying this problem was caused by the move to free-er capital markets and more capitalism in the early-Eighties, and you're looking for a Socialist Revolution then I might be tempted to join, but I suspect that's not what most on HPC believe in.

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Yer - bit disappointed. With all of the frustration and anger expressed on here I though people would be more up for it. Seems not :rolleyes:

Oh well - I guess we will just carry on being a society of property rampers cheering on the miracle economy and the mighty recovery. :angry:

If you can organise some serious weapons and explosives and enough supporters to surround the Square Mile and the Houses of Parliament, I'll sort out my will first, but I'll turn up. FWIW I can shoot a flys gnads off, so I'd be one of the first to die.

Gandhi protests can't work in these days of Strictly and X-factor.

:ph34r:

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Mmm.............no takers. I think you might need a shorter slogan. My banner would be too big with that one!

:lol:

I agree! I didn't mean it as a slogan. I just wrote that in a post, to Ben from Dover.

Has to be much shorter.

Someone has a good signature, like "high house prices poison everything."

That could be a banner, "me thinks". ;)

Edited by Tired of waiting
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:lol:

I agree! I didn't mean it as a slogan. I just wrote that in a post, to Ben from Dover.

Has to be much shorter.

Someone has a good signature, like "high house prices poison everything."

That could be a banner, "me thinks". ;)

How about 'Affordable Housing - WTF!' which could be abbreviated to the accronym 'AH - WTF!' - seems to sum up the general mood around here :)

(That came across as more ascerbic than intended - great banner though)

Edited by Reluctant Heretic
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I'm out. The government aren't explicitly supporting high housing costs anyway. .

Housing benefit is about as explicit as it gets. Fraud on a plate, putting a floor under the price of a property. This is because an owner can almost always find someone willing to defraud the tax payer, claim the benefit, and get paid the benefit, using the money to pay the mortgage.

Take this fraudulent benefit away, and house prices fall.

Put up interest rates, and we would have ourselves a proper housing market in short order.

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I would join you Ben From Dover (I mean this to read as - I will take part if anything gets off the ground) but I suspect that trying to get a protest going that involves people actually gathering in a physical place, etc. will just never get off the ground. It is for this reason that I would suggest a web based campaign as I suggested in another thread today where I said:

"If nothing else a very easy thing for HPC'ers to do would be to raise awareness of the ongoing UK property market Buyers Strike by simply posting about it in readers comments on local and national newspaper websites. This can be reinforced by the Land Registry data which reveals the collapse in property sales/transactions. As shown previously for Worcester:

The Buyers Strike is revealed by the Land Registry data of property transactions. For example in Worcester the number of properties sold each year since 2006 is as follows:

2006 - 2690 properties sold

2007 - 2179 sold

2008 - 1180

2009 - 811 sold by end of October so heading towards about 973 for the complete year.

So, compared to 2006, 2009 witnessed a 64% collapse in property sales or if you like 64% of the buying population withdrew from the market to take part in a Buyers Strike.

The stats for different towns and cities, postcodes can be found on websites such as Home.co.uk

From what I have seen the stats and the concept of a Buyers Strike (which isn't organised but is happening in effect) generates a lot of reaction and discussion and anxiety and panic from Estate Agents and others who are pro high/rising house prices.

I don't think it would take much time or effort to spread the word. Posting a readers comment takes no longer than doing a posting here on HPC. "

Such a web based campaign would not require any extra effort (except sacrificing the time and effort to post a couple comments on HPC to Newspaper websites instead), or resources (people can do this from their desk at work and/or home).

HPC'ers could commit to finding one local newspaper article per week or fortnight to add comments about the 'Buyers Strike' (which I think is a phrase/concept that could catch on and is media friendly) as well as one national newspaper website. With the national papers your comments are potentially read by thousands of people and with local papers potentially a few hundred. It wouldn't take many HPC'ers, if they did this on a regular basis to reach many thousands of people across the country.

In adding to readers comments about house prices, the Buyers Strike, etc. people would be posting their honest opinions so I can't see anything wrong with it.

Well, that's my suggestion.

Edited by Alfie Moon
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I can't see much point in protesting. 70% of people in the UK own their own house and 20% live in socially provided accommodation so don't have much reason to care. Whenever somebody who doesn't own a house complains that they are too expensive, the 70% who do own houses are inclined to shrug their shoulders and say "well you would say that, wouldn't you?" This thing is going to play out through market forces.

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I'm trying to find out how much support we would get if I went ahead and actually tried to organize some sort of protest against "the unfair and misguided government support for the high housing costs Ponzi pyramid scheme" (quote from tired of waiting).

If some sort of march or protest was organized, would you turn up?

What form would you suggest that it takes?

If someone is interested, I think this idea started in the thread about yesterday's Radio 4 phone in, post 176 onwards.

Link: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=138845&view=findpost&p=2432857 , post 176.

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+1. Awareness comes before protest.

Well... sometimes public demonstrations are actually a tool for a group to talk to the nation, trying to convince more people, to increase the awareness of the majority, via the press.

I think the idea has many problems (main one: stop "bailing out families" is a very hard sell...), but I don't think this is one.

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I can't see much point in protesting. 70% of people in the UK own their own house and 20% live in socially provided accommodation so don't have much reason to care. Whenever somebody who doesn't own a house complains that they are too expensive, the 70% who do own houses are inclined to shrug their shoulders and say "well you would say that, wouldn't you?" This thing is going to play out through market forces.

Yes, but ... a very significant part of the 'market' is its discourse environment and we can have an impact on that. I argued this a long time ago ... that there are theoretical and empirical grounds for believing that a small group could impact on the discourse environment of the property market (and the discourse environment impacts significantly on economic fiundamentals -see economic theory and discourse from the last 15 odd years). See from a very old thread I started:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=30244

Also look at the readers comments for Daily Mail property related articles for the last few months to see the kind of response that can be generated ... including from some very annoyed and anxious Estate Agents ... for examples.

I agree with the comments about awareness raising before protest .... and my idea of a web based, readers comments (Buyers Strike) action is about that really.

Edited by Alfie Moon
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If 1m people couldn;t stop a war........ I don't think 30 assorted STR's/FTB's is going to cut it.

Better off starting a whispering campaign........ the market is largely propped up by sentiment.

If we keep inserting the idea into that "Get out now, it's all going to come tumbling down" into that......... then, like a bank run, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably any HPC'ers best move is to attempt to start just such a panic "run on the bank of housing".

On the other hand.......... it's going to be very hard to get someone to beleive that when their pension pot relies on them not beleiving that (paraphrasing someone or other).

Yours,

TGP

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I can't see much point in protesting. 70% of people in the UK own their own house and 20% live in socially provided accommodation so don't have much reason to care. Whenever somebody who doesn't own a house complains that they are too expensive, the 70% who do own houses are inclined to shrug their shoulders and say "well you would say that, wouldn't you?"

I think you are right here.

This thing is going to play out through market forces.

Market forces?! The government has intervened with everything they had! Then with freshly printed 200 billion pounds! And now they are maxing their credit card, will go up to 100% of GDP in less than 3 years, and will leave the bill to our children!

Market forces? I wish! We all wish. That was actually the main point of the political complaint: please stop using our tax-money to price us out of the housing market. :(

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I would join you Ben From Dover but I suspect that trying to get a protest going that involves people actually gathering in a physical place, etc. will just never get off the ground. It is for this reason that I would suggest a web based campaign as I suggested in another thread today where I said:

"If nothing else a very easy thing for HPC'ers to do would be to raise awareness of the ongoing UK property market Buyers Strike by simply posting about it in readers comments on local and national newspaper websites. This can be reinforced by the Land Registry data which reveals the collapse in property sales/transactions. As shown previously for Worcester:

The Buyers Strike is revealed by the Land Registry data of property transactions. For example in Worcester the number of properties sold each year since 2006 is as follows:

2006 - 2690 properties sold

2007 - 2179 sold

2008 - 1180

2009 - 811 sold by end of October so heading towards about 973 for the complete year.

So, compared to 2006, 2009 witnessed a 64% collapse in property sales or if you like 64% of the buying population withdrew from the market to take part in a Buyers Strike.

The stats for different towns and cities, postcodes can be found on websites such as Home.co.uk

From what I have seen the stats and the concept of a Buyers Strike (which isn't organised but is happening in effect) generates a lot of reaction and discussion and anxiety and panic from Estate Agents and others who are pro high/rising house prices.

I don't think it would take much time or effort to spread the word. Posting a readers comment takes no longer than doing a posting here on HPC. "

Such a web based campaign would not require any extra effort (except sacrificing the time and effort to post a couple comments on HPC to Newspaper websites instead), or resources (people can do this from their desk at work and/or home).

HPC'ers could commit to finding one local newspaper article per week or fortnight to add comments about the 'Buyers Strike' (which I think is a phrase/concept that could catch on and is media friendly) as well as one national newspaper website. With the national papers your comments are potentially read by thousands of people and with local papers potentially a few hundred. It wouldn't take many HPC'ers, if they did this on a regular basis to reach many thousands of people across the country.

In adding to readers comments about house prices, the Buyers Strike, etc. people would be posting their honest opinions so I can't see anything wrong with it.

Well, that's my suggestion.

I think this is very workable and could start very effective meme.

Where from the Land Registry homepage to access the year by year sales figures?

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Market forces?! The government has intervened with everything they had! Then with freshly printed 200 billion pounds! And now they are maxing their credit card, will go up to 100% of GDP in less than 3 years, and will leave the bill to our children!

Market forces? I wish! We all wish. That was actually the main point of the political complaint: please stop using our tax-money to price us out of the housing market. :(

Spot on

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I think this is very workable and could start very effective meme.

Where from the Land Registry homepage to access the year by year sales figures?

Thanks.

The website I use to collate Land Registry data about the number of property sales in a particular locality is here:

http://www.home.co.uk/

On the webpage that the above link takes you to you need to set the seach box for 'house prices' (see the tabs along the top of the search box), put your location (name of town, city or postcode) in the search box and click 'search'.

You will then be taken to a webpage where you will need to click the 'Selling Prices in (location) since 2000'

e,g. for Worcester see:

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_menu.htm?location=worcester

This will then take you to another webpage with which you will need to scroll down to the bottom of. Here you will find a bar chart for the Number of Properties Sold in (location - e.g. Worcester). You will also see below the bar chart a numerical table for the number of properties sold in the location + the facilities to change the year/month. I then use this to collate the number of properties sold each month for each year from 2006 till 2009.

See example webpage here:

http://www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_report.htm?location=worcester&all=1

This then, allows me to generate a set of statistics as follows (in this instance for Worcester):

2006 - 2690 properties sold

2007 - 2179 sold

2008 - 1180

2009 - 811 sold by end of October so heading towards about 973 for the complete year.

So, compared to 2006, 2009 witnessed a 64% collapse in property sales or if you like 64% of the buying population withdrew from the market to take part in a Buyers Strike.

Hope the above helps.

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