The Masked Tulip Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Well, I'm seeing a dying holiday home market - firstly, cash-strapped Londoners are attempting to rent out their previously 'only for the family' cottages. Secondly, loads are being forced to sell coz they can't afford to maintain their properties/mortgages. Thirdly, the holiday cottage market is dead - there's been a collapse in occupancy this year - people are losing money on their 'investments'. Everybody's moaning about it. I think I am one of the few people in Wales who does not have a holiday home that I rent out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Well, I'm seeing a dying holiday home market - firstly, cash-strapped Londoners are attempting to rent out their previously 'only for the family' cottages. Secondly, loads are being forced to sell coz they can't afford to maintain their properties/mortgages. Thirdly, the holiday cottage market is dead - there's been a collapse in occupancy this year - people are losing money on their 'investments'. Everybody's moaning about it. I remember seeing adverts in EA windows in Newcastle Emlyn in 2000 offering 30-40 acre farms for £170k. A bloke could probably make a living with that kind of price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I know a couple living in rural Wales. One earns £14,000 and the other earns £10,000. After hefty redundancies they both kept their jobs and consider themselves very lucky to be in work. Their salaries are totally average for the area. They should be able to afford an average house for the area as they are both in average paid employment. Their joint income is £24,000, so they could sensibly borrow £84,000. They are in their 40s and have some savings, but not enough to get a decent house. In 2000 you could by semis in this area for £45,000, now they are £150,000, and that's supposed to be after a "crash". These people have no hope and like most people I talk to have a completely different mental landscape now where they do not even consider the idea of home ownership. Trouble is, they're probably not competing with other local workers, there'll be people prepared to "commute" to the SE, people returning from the SE having sold property there, etc. This particular housing problem emerges from the disparity between economic performance between different UK regions. Having said that, the more leverage you allow, the bigger the advantage that accrues to bidders with bigger incomes. And the more HPI you have, the more equity becomes available for house-owners in prosperous regions to apply further leverage in expanding into poorer regions. All in all, I reckon it's going to be a slow unwinding in Wales. I keep looking in EA windows and all I see (still) is overpriced properties, in terms of local wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Good logic, but still connected to that slightly sneering English attitude about the working man not being entitled to a decent house. Like I said upthread, in Australia and Canada it is a given that the average working schlub will live in a detached house. No reason why this could not be the case in Britain, other than the same snobbery that makes automatic cars a luxury in the UK whereas they are standard in the new world, etc. Class signifiers everywhere. Does not compute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/7408756/Chevron-looking-to-sell-Welsh-refinery.html This isn't exactly going to help the local housing market in Pembrokeshire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anteos Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Hi I've been keeping an eye on properties in the north wales area (rhuddlan, dyserth, prestatyn), and nothing appears to be selling. you have some properties which have been in the market for almost two years, with very little price reductions. Also a lot of new properties are starting to appear. I ssupect the lack of reduction is due to the age bracket of the area. A lot of boomers waiting to downsize, who will not accept less for their properties. And they don't mind keeping them on, till someone makes an offer. I agree that the median wages in the area must be very low, and that housing does not reflect this. It will be interesting to see the effect of any public sector cutbacks in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 http://www.telegraph...h-refinery.html This isn't exactly going to help the local housing market in Pembrokeshire! The implications go a lot further than Pembrokeshire... Analysts said that Asian companies are most likely to survive the excess capacity in the refining industry because their costs are lower. Fun fun fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideEdge Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Most normal families live on one low wage, with the woman looking after the kids. Simply because you can exercise the genius of being able to get hold of an interest only mortgage without dribbling, and overpay for a few flats and houses, doesn't mean your gonads are any bigger. This is ****** Most families in 3 bed semis do not live on one low wage. Some people on this site are deluded about what average people earn, clue its not 17-20k! If you earn this much you are a low earner unfortunately and your housing will reflect that. And the single income multiples are rubbish too. You are competing against people with 2 incomes like it or not. It's not as if a women has kids and then gives up work for 20 years either. Most women I know are looking to get back to work when the kids go to school/nursery. Add to that all the maternity benefits/tax credits etc the absurdity of saying 3.5 x 20k should get me a 3bed semi should become clear. In reality on just a 20k income you'll get a flat. Thats it. Edited March 10, 2010 by InsideEdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggggy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 number of detached house < number of plebs ergo.... .. eat the rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 This is ****** Most families in 3 bed semis do not live on one low wage. Some people on this site are deluded about what average people earn, clue its not 17-20k! If you earn this much you are a low earner unfortunately and your housing will reflect that. And the single income multiples are rubbish too. You are competing against people with 2 incomes like it or not. It's not as if a women has kids and then gives up work for 20 years either. Most women I know are looking to get back to work when the kids go to school/nursery. Add to that all the maternity benefits/tax credits etc the absurdity of saying 3.5 x 20k should get me a 3bed semi should become clear. In reality on just a 20k income you'll get a flat. Thats it. Are you just pissed because I think your debt burden is bigger than your assets, and you have only yourself to blame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 This is ****** Most families in 3 bed semis do not live on one low wage. Some people on this site are deluded about what average people earn, clue its not 17-20k! If you earn this much you are a low earner unfortunately and your housing will reflect that. And the single income multiples are rubbish too. You are competing against people with 2 incomes like it or not. It's not as if a women has kids and then gives up work for 20 years either. Most women I know are looking to get back to work when the kids go to school/nursery. Add to that all the maternity benefits/tax credits etc the absurdity of saying 3.5 x 20k should get me a 3bed semi should become clear. In reality on just a 20k income you'll get a flat. Thats it. get back to your free milk. its time to go out into the playground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 In Swansea, Agents are still wildly over valuing. Small example. 3 bed dormer bungalow in Three Crosses, valued at £160k, sold last week at auction for £120k. Ex LA house spent all 2009 on the market at £130k, no buyers and withdrawn. A mile away, another ex LA house in need of extensive works, c£10-15k, new on sale at £137k. There seem to be plenty of realistic buyers, just no realistic sellers. Or is it the Agents competing with each other for business? We all know that the public services have had their budgets for post April 2010 and by all reports its not a pretty picture. There is gossip of redundancies in NHS, Education, Local Authority, DVLA, which of course will knock on into the private sector. Personally, I am reminded of the parties in the Fuhrerbunker in the last days of the fall of Berlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Not regardless, but central. Arguing that a man on an average wage should be able to afford an average house is central to this whole debate. I make the case that even a detached property can be considered "average" so long as it is not too large and not in an upmarket area. In the US, Canada, Australia and NZ the average house is detached, full stop. Going back to that very interesting class/entitlement thing again, but in Britain the plebs shouldn't expect to live in a detached house! A good gracious no, the plebs should be happy with a sty. How dare they presume detached is average? We should all have enough food to eat, clothes to wear be treated with respect and dignity by other humans. Alas in the real world it doesn't happen. Was there ever a time in modern history when someone on about half the national average wage (14k cf about 26k) could easily afford a UK detatched house? Comparisons with Canada and Australia (which have vast tracts of empty land) or NZ (which has very few people) don't seem all that relevant. And why should a nice, tidy, terraced or semi be regarded as a "sty"? Years ago people took great pride in their houses, regardless of the size. Having a mansion suitable for Hello magazine is not a basic human right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideEdge Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Are you just pissed because I think your debt burden is bigger than your assets, and you have only yourself to blame? lol I dont own a house but thanks for your concern. I would not expect to own one if I earnt less than £20k. Edited March 10, 2010 by InsideEdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) The implications go a lot further than Pembrokeshire... Fun fun fun. "First Minister Carwyn Jones understands how vital the refinery is to Pembrokeshires economy and is committed to maintaining the plant." Saved by the Assembly! Edited March 10, 2010 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 In Swansea, Agents are still wildly over valuing. Small example. 3 bed dormer bungalow in Three Crosses, valued at £160k, sold last week at auction for £120k. Ex LA house spent all 2009 on the market at £130k, no buyers and withdrawn. A mile away, another ex LA house in need of extensive works, c£10-15k, new on sale at £137k. There seem to be plenty of realistic buyers, just no realistic sellers. Or is it the Agents competing with each other for business? We all know that the public services have had their budgets for post April 2010 and by all reports its not a pretty picture. There is gossip of redundancies in NHS, Education, Local Authority, DVLA, which of course will knock on into the private sector. Personally, I am reminded of the parties in the Fuhrerbunker in the last days of the fall of Berlin. I spoke a few weeks ago with a couple of EAs in Swansea who were commenting about the ludicrous asking prices their competitors were quoting clients, felt they could not justify such prices themselves but, perhaps, they would be forced to to compete. Gave an example of a terraced house in an area where the most expensive had gone for 250Kish, they too valued it at 250K but one of their competitors had valued it at 375K and, of course, the seller went with that valuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideEdge Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) get back to your free milk. its time to go out into the playground. Seems like you find it difficult to counter the points I made so have to attack me with a hillarious one liner. A true HPC trait if ever I saw it. Edited March 10, 2010 by InsideEdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Seems like you find it difficult to counter the points I made so have to attack me with a hillarious one liner. A true HPC trait if ever I saw it. I didnt see any points..just schoolboy myth. Im sure everyone really does earn 40K as the MSM love to portray. in reality...MOST people earn less that 25K Gross. the drop off above this level is very steep indeed. the drop off below this level is not so steep. yes there are 2 income families, but these also are supported with their mortgages by very generous benefits....benefits that Gordon Brown has pledged to cut.....he said so again today...he said the structural deficit is going to be cut by one third in 4 years...and theyve introduced a law to ensure it happens. this is going to affect your oh so well off average both working 2 kids families. Mortgages are for life...not just for a boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I spoke a few weeks ago with a couple of EAs in Swansea who were commenting about the ludicrous asking prices their competitors were quoting clients, felt they could not justify such prices themselves but, perhaps, they would be forced to to compete. Gave an example of a terraced house in an area where the most expensive had gone for 250Kish, they too valued it at 250K but one of their competitors had valued it at 375K and, of course, the seller went with that valuation. Holy ******ing-******-******. I can't believe you used the words Swansea, terraced and £375K in the same post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Holy ******ing-******-******. I can't believe you used the words Swansea, terraced and £375K in the same post. Too cheap, you think? Might be putting off buyers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Holy ******ing-******-******. I can't believe you used the words Swansea, terraced and £375K in the same post. It's the Abu Dhabi effect see... http://www.paulinek.com/job-list.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Or perhaps it's the home furnishings boom? Recruiter Harveys Furnishing Group Location Swansea, West Glamorgan Salary £9,250 per annum, OTE Sector Retail - Sales Assistant Job Type Permanent Date 10 MarApplications 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Or, if you are ACA or ACCA qualified accountant, with your own transport, how about making it big as an External Auditor? You'll be rolling in it! Recruiter Reed FinanceLocation Swansea, Swansea Salary £20,000 - £25,000 per annum Sector Accountancy (Qualified) - Accountancy Practice -Experience of managing a portfolio of audit clients within an accountancy practice required. Edited March 10, 2010 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideEdge Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) I didnt see any points..just schoolboy myth. Im sure everyone really does earn 40K as the MSM love to portray. in reality...MOST people earn less that 25K Gross. the drop off above this level is very steep indeed. the drop off below this level is not so steep. yes there are 2 income families, but these also are supported with their mortgages by very generous benefits....benefits that Gordon Brown has pledged to cut.....he said so again today...he said the structural deficit is going to be cut by one third in 4 years...and theyve introduced a law to ensure it happens. this is going to affect your oh so well off average both working 2 kids families. Mortgages are for life...not just for a boom. Who said anything about the average wage being £40k? Nice strawman argument there. The official median wage is £25k so if you earn £17-20k you are a low earner, simples. Also women do not want to stay at home anymore and be a housewife for 20 years. My mum did it but how many young people are doing it this way now, unless ther are a single mum on benefits. The vast majority of young people service their mortgage with two incomes like it or not. But of course everyone is entitled to a 3 bed semi so carry on. Edited March 10, 2010 by InsideEdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Holy ******ing-******-******. I can't believe you used the words Swansea, terraced and £375K in the same post. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the phrase 'entire street of' is in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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