Muslim Council Of Britain Gets A Reality Check

[laurejon]

How Bizzarre

The muslim council of Britain has after many years only just realised that Britain is Pro-Israel.

Did they really believe in all the "Celebrate the diversity" And "Contributions to Society" claptrap peddled out over the last 8 years.

I find this story incredible are they honestly suggesting that the British Public would support the Palastinians?.

[Boom'n'Bust]

Well they should as they are seriously suffering, under the hands of israeli occupation.

[mbga9pgf]

Well they should as they are seriously suffering, under the hands of israeli occupation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats funny, because if you check your history books, you will find "palestinians" were not even recognised as a nation by even their Muslim brothers until very recently.

Our problem was being allowing labour to go soft on the israeli issue post-ww2....

we should have never given in to their demands.

[laurejon]

Well call me misinformed but given the option of passing a gathering of Jewish lads on one side of the pavement in London, and a gang of Moslems I know which path I will be treading.

I'm afraid its time for Blair to say those magic words.

You are either with us, or you are against us.

[Boom'n'Bust]

Thats funny, because if you check your history books, you will find "palestinians" were not even recognised as a nation by even their Muslim brothers until very recently.

Our problem was being allowing labour to go soft on the israeli issue post-ww2....

we should have never given in to their demands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Palestinians are still humans. As for those who commit the terrorist acts on israelis should definately be bought to justice. But they are again in a minority of those people. Lets say a thousand palestinians commit terrorist acts against the israelis, how does that represent the rest of those million palestinians who are getting hurt in this unforgivable battle? What about the protestor "Tom Hurndall" who was trying to protect the palestinian kids and got killed for nothing? Did he deserve it? NO!

At the end of the day, I blame both parties - THE ISRAEL GOVERNMENT AND THE MILITANTS.

So would you agree with the above m8?

Well call me misinformed but given the option of passing a gathering of Jewish lads on one side of the pavement in London, and a gang of Moslems I know which path I will be treading.

I'm afraid its time for Blair to say those magic words.

You are either with us, or you are against us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

laurejon - here's the magic words "GO JOIN THE BNP" - Thats what you are..clearly a racist who has nothing better to say.

In other words, if you don't have any decent arguments, then don't bother replying.

[Boom'n'Bust]

Thats funny.  Until recently, the only people I knew who were pro Israel were American.  Everyone English I knew was pro-palestinian.  And remember we went into the former Yugoslavia on the side of the Muslims against the Christians.

Recently, people have been more pragmatic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice one kitten...majority of the british public as i know DOES support and feel for what the palestinians are going through, but at the same time, they are condemning the terrorist acts that the miltants groups do. This is the decent civilised public whom all the world respect.

Then you get the small-minded, one sided (small minority) people who support BNP-like parties and believe in one RACE that should exist!

[whiterabbit]

Palestinians are still humans.  As for those who commit the terrorist acts on israelis should definately be bought to justice.  But they are again in a minority of those people.  Lets say a thousand palestinians commit terrorist acts against the israelis, how does that represent the rest of those million palestinians who are getting hurt in this unforgivable battle? What about the protestor "Tom Hurndall" who was trying to protect the palestinian kids and got killed for nothing? Did he deserve it? NO!

At the end of the day, I blame both parties - THE ISRAEL GOVERNMENT AND THE MILITANTS.

So would you agree with the above m8?

laurejon - here's the magic words "GO JOIN THE BNP" - Thats what you are..clearly a racist who has nothing better to say.

In other words, if you don't have any decent arguments, then don't bother replying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Call laurejon names if you find it amusing but please don't represent the BNP as rascist because it isn't the case. They are just looking out for England and if you looked at their policies none are rascist........................

[Boom'n'Bust]

Call laurejon names if you find it amusing but please don't represent the BNP as rascist because it isn't the case. They are just looking out for England and if you looked at their policies none are rascist........................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, I can see that your a member of the group..course their bloody racists, thats why they don't believe in multiculturalism...they believe it should be a one race britiain with WHITES-ONLY!!

[Too expensive to trade up]

Call laurejon names if you find it amusing but please don't represent the BNP as rascist because it isn't the case. They are just looking out for England and if you looked at their policies none are rascist........................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bulls**t On Channel four Nick Griffin during the election said the BNP was a white only party. They may present a 'looking out for England' face but anyone seeing the BBC program on the BNP last year would have been left in no doubt how racist and anti-Semitic they are.

[Solvent Celt]

Bulls**t On Channel four Nick Griffin during the election said the BNP was a white only party. They may present a 'looking out for England' face but anyone seeing the BBC program on the BNP last year would have been left in no doubt how racist and anti-Semitic they are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you'll find they are Nationalists. They don't want immigration into Britain regardless of the race of the immigrants. They are as much against immigration of "white" Albanians, Poles etc etc as they are against "Black" Somalis and "Yellow" Malaysians.

If you look at their constitution they specify who they regard as British in terms of "Folk Communities" - not mention of Ukranians or Belorussians.

To me it seems they believe that all Britons are "white" (and as the Britons are an indigenous European people that seems a fairly reasonable view) but that being "white" doesn't make you British.

No doubt some of their individual members are crude racists other are probably "racial realists".

As for anti semitic I believe they have fielded Jewish and half Jewish candidates.

[Boom'n'Bust]

BNP leader nick griffin is a racist PERIOD! He's been charged with "incitement to racial hatred" etc and I don't have to prove it many would have seen his real views when the undercover documentery on BBC was shown. His whole party is made of RACISTS.

[iamconfusedagain]

BNP leader nick griffin is a racist PERIOD!  He's been charged with "incitement to racial hatred" etc and I don't have to prove it many would have seen his real views when the undercover documentery on BBC was shown.  His whole party is made of RACISTS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/uncovered/uncovered.htm

What a bunch of muppets

[Solvent Celt]

BNP leader nick griffin is a racist PERIOD!  He's been charged with "incitement to racial hatred" etc and I don't have to prove it many would have seen his real views when the undercover documentery on BBC was shown.  His whole party is made of RACISTS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lets not prejudge the outcome of the trial (the stress of which has already killed one of his co-defendents).

As far as I can see he predicted the London Bombings and the the likely populations responsible with uncanny accuracy. Problem is under the anti free speech race laws the fact that you are telling the truth is no defence.

I agree that you can make a case that Racism is inherent in Nationalism. However IMHO you'd need to show that the BNP were welcoming mass migration of white immigrants such as Albanians whilst opposing "coloured" migration.

BTW the BBC "documentary" was one of the poorest pieces of investigative journalism I've ever seen. Far from showing a balanced picture they focused on a branch that had been infiltrated and controlled by a searchlight mole. That's like judging the labour party on the conduct of a branch infiltrated and run by the Tory party. Even then it wasn't that shocking that the people filmred ran off their mouth after few pints in the way they did. Many people in this country are embittered and frustrated at the state their country is in.

As I said I've absolutely no doubt that there are individual racists in the BNP but most seem to be genuine nationalists, patriots and simply those white working class voters who have been forgoten by new labour. Don't judge them by a BBC hatchet job.

[iamconfusedagain]

(the stress of which has already killed one of his co-defendents).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At least some good has come out of it then.

[Solvent Celt]

http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/uncovered/uncovered.htm

What a bunch of muppets

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offence but I'd take anything Searchlight say with a pinch of salt.

Searchlight is a British publication which describes itself as an "international anti-fascist magazine", and publishes material critical of far-right political parties. It includes as far-right parties groups such as the UK Independence Party and sections of the Conservative Party, which would not see themselves as far-right. However, its main focus is on fascist groups and those such as the British National Party which it describes as fascist.

Searchlight has frequently published exposés of the National Front, the British National Party and their members. These have been heavily criticised by some in those groups who claim such articles were attempts to encourage physical attacks on the individuals concerned. The magazine has also written about organisations such as Combat 18 and the neo-nazi music scene.

Some on the far right have claimed that there are parallels with Redwatch, a far-right website that lists names and address of far-left activists, and which has been alleged to encourage physical attacks on them. The Redwatch website claims that it was started as a result of similar lists in Searchlight, which, it claims, also resulted in physical attacks on right-wing activists. In fact Searchlight has never published such lists nor encouraged physical attacks on fascists.

A major focus of the magazine is in involving trade unions in anti-fascist action. However, it has been criticised by far-left organisations as well as far-right ones. Anti-Fascist Action and many anarchist groups refuse to work with it due to its alleged links with the British security forces. Searchlight claims that there is no evidence to suggest that it regularly works with the security services. In particular, some on the left accuse it of sharing information with the police and with MI5. Searchlight claims it has only cooperated with the state in a few cases, when laws were being broken. Searchlight is happy to work with any group that opposes the BNP but is critical of those groups whom it perceives as using opposition to the BNP as a means of promoting their own Trotskyist agenda.

Searchlight has been sued by a plethora of organisations on many occasions, but rarely successfully. As a magazine, it has been noted for its attempts to prevent its sources from being revealed. Amongst those sources have been Ray Hill, Tim Hepple, Matthew Collins, Darren Wells and Andy Sykes. Collins in particular, has proven to be an effective mouthpiece and public front for the organisation since returning from years in hiding in Australia. He has been the subject of two BBC documentaries, "Life Etc," and the award nominated "Dead Man Walking" docudrama (details at www.bbc.co.uk).

Like Collins, former C18 leader Darren Wells and BNP organiser Andy Sykes have also defected to Searchlight with considerable effect for the far-right. It is unclear, however, whether Sykes actually defected or was a deliberate infiltrator before he started. Information about both can also be found on the BBC.

Many critics of the Magazine do however question the truth of these types of supposedly "undercover" or "change of faith" conversions. Allegations about an attempted murder by Collins in Australia can be found on google, as can revelations and possible smears about Darren Wells's ongoing criminal activity. Collins, like Sykes, however, has appeared credible on television programmes and appear to be the biggest victims of smear campaigns.

At the insistence of the British National Party, Searchlight was also investigated by the British Charity Commission as a result of a complaint that claimed it had been breaking the rules governing the conduct of a charitable organisation eligible for tax breaks from the Government. The Commission stated that, in its opinion, Searchlight had indeed "overstepped the boundary", but no action was taken against the organisation.

The magazine is published by Gerry Gable, a former member of the Communist Party of Great Britain and militant 62 Group, but has lately moved towards a more centre left / anti-Trotskyist position.

Remember that Communism killed more people than Nazism and Gable was a member of that party (as were many Labour MPs)

[Solvent Celt]

Gerry Gable is a left wing, Zionist political activist in the United Kingdom. He was the first editor of Searchlight magazine in 1975 before handing over to Maurice Ludmer.

He was a supporter of the British militant anti-fascist 62 Group and, though never a member himself, he frequently praised the group in his articles in Searchlight.

After Ludmer's death in 1981 Gable edited Searchlight until 1998 with one or two breaks in between.

As a youth Gable was a member of the Young Communist League and the Communist Party of Great Britain, he worked as a runner on the Communist Party's Daily Worker newspaper.After a year he left this post to become a Communist Party trade union organiser. He stood for the Communist Party on Thursday the 10th of May 1962 at Northfield Ward, Stamford Hill, North London. In 1962, after 10 years unbroken membership, he left the Communist Party to, in his own words, "concentrate on anti-fascist work and because the party had begun to adopt an anti-Israel line".

In November 1963, Gable was arrested and held at Hornsey police station following a burglary attempt. On the 14th of January 1964, Gable admitted breaking into the flat with intent to steal, and was convicted.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Gable"

So he is against British Nationalism but for Jewish Nationalism/Zionism... hmm

double standards me thinks.

[Solvent Celt]

At least some good has come out of it then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you serious? You might not agree with the guys politics but theres no need to gloat over his death ffs. :angry:

[Guest Riser]

I regard myself as middle of the road when it comes to race yet three of my old friends from school who live here in the North voted for the BNP last time around. I suspect there will be a few more next time around as long as the National government panders to the whims of self appointed community leaders, religious nutters, and organisations such as the Muslim Council of Britain. Even the name is designed to cause offence by removing the "Great" out of Great Britain.

'Islamic radicals run brainwashing camps in Lake District'

'Islamic radicals run brainwashing camps in Lake District' By Times Online and PA News

Islamic extremists are running "indoctrination" camps in Britain’s national parks, a senior police officer has warned.

Colin Cramphorn, the Chief Constable of West Yorkshire, says that the police need greater powers to combat the extremists’ efforts to radicalise young Muslims.

Mr Cramphorn, whose force has played a leading role in the investigation into the July 7 bombings of London - the suicide bomber team was based on his patch - made his comments in an interview for The Spectator magazine.

He said: "Consider the training camps run in this country by the extremists. They’re not like IRA camps in Donegal where people are learning how to fire mortars. They’re actually pure indoctrination camps.

"It’s much more than just a few white-water-rafting trips in Wales such as the bombers took. Wherever there’s a national park, you’ll find them - the Yorkshire Dales, the Lake District, the West Highlands."

Mr Cramphorn, a former deputy chief constable of the RUC, voiced frustration at the extent of the authorities’ powers to combat such activities. He said that there might be lessons to be learned from the security and legal system evolved to tackle terrorism in Ulster.

Mr Cramphorn said: "All we can do now is track them, rather than disrupt them. We should learn from our experience in Ulster and reintroduce elements of the old Emergency Provisions Acts over here."

He said that he would like to see Northern Ireland-style holding centres for the detention of terrorist suspects. At the moment they can be held without charge for 14 days, but Mr Cramphorn argued that that period should be extended to 90 days to give police the chance to conduct meaningful inquiries ahead of interviewing suspects.

He told the magazine that his greatest fear is of a young suicide bomber seizing a chlorine tanker on the M1 and driving it into the middle of Leeds.

He argued that such threats required major changes in how people lead their day to day lives. They could, he argued, include greater use of congestion-charge technology, with automatic number-plate recognition. The threat could also require, he suggested, Eurostar-style check-ins for long-haul rail journeys and the reintroduction of conductors on buses.

Mr Cramphorn added that he has reservations about the Government’s controversial Racial and Religious Hatred Bill. The Bill would extend current offences on incitement to racial hatred under the 1986 Public Order Act to cover the stirring up of hatred against people of any religious faith. The Government argues that it will prevent people being victimised for their beliefs, but critics argue that it would undermine freedom of speech.

Mr Cramphorn cautioned: "There are tremendous practical difficulties in proving a particular motivation, a state of mind. And it would aggravate tensions on the other side of the divide. I have also to think of 33,000 BNP voters locally. There would be a lot more of them if this went ahead."

Mr Cramphorn also warned about the possible dangers of a growth in the number of Muslim schools. "Segregated education makes me shudder when I think of Northern Ireland," he said. "It entrenches an ‘us’ and ‘them’ mindset and reinforces ‘foreignness’."

[Solvent Celt]

I regard myself as middle of the road when it comes to race yet three of my old friends from school who live here in the North voted for the BNP last time around. I suspect there will be a few more next time around as long as the National government panders to the whims of self appointed community leaders, religious nutters, and organisations such as the Muslim Council of Britain. Even the name is designed to cause offence by removing the "Great" out of Great Britain.

'Islamic radicals run brainwashing camps in Lake District'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The MCB are a disgrace ... if Sir Iqbal is the best "moderate" they can come up with we are in deep doo...

Just how moderate is Iqbal Sacranie?

Iqbal Sacranie, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), is a fascinating bundle of contradictions. On the one hand, the recently knighted Sir Iqbal likes to present himself as the moderate, caring, cuddly face of Islam. This version of Iqbal is concerned about peace and tolerance and building good community relations. Sacranie has spoken of the importance of:

… championing justice and promoting tolerance through constructive engagement with society as a whole …

Dig a little further into his background, however, and things get more complex.

Back in the pre-MCB days of1989, Iqbal Sacranie was involved with the UK Action Committee on Islamic Affairs. In response to Salman Rushdie’s controversial book The Satanic Verses, which resulted in a call from Iran for Rushdie’s execution, Sacranie chose to eschew justice, tolerance and construction and said of Rushdie:

Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him? His mind must be tormented for the rest of his life unless he asks for forgiveness to Almighty Allah.

Note in particular the lack of argumentation. Sacranie does not engage, does not explain what is wrong with Rushdie or his arguments — no, Rushdie had insulted the prophet and thus death was too good for him.

The words of a moderate?

This was, to be fair, sixteen years ago. Perhaps this was the impetuosity of youth, maybe now Sacranie has mellowed with age and experience.

Alas, no. This same theme of suppressing any criticism or questioning of Muhammad arose again more recently. On BBC Radio 4’s Moral Maze program, on 14 July 2004, Sacranie said that he believed that any defamation of Muhammad’s character should be illegal under the proposed law banning incitement to religious hatred that the MCB have been campaigning for.

This willingness to curse or prosecute those who are perceived to have insulted Muhammad is a reflection of an Islamist mindset; indeed, under shari'a law, such a crime would be punishable by death. It is deeply worrying that Sacranie wants to see UK law go down the same path as, say, Pakistan.

Sacranie’s more radical nature comes out at other moments too, notably in his willingness to defend militant Islamists and to extend to them the freedom and courtesy they would deny to others. For example, in 1996, the radical Islamist group Al-Muhajiroun, led by Omar Bakri Mohammed, was planning a rally in London. As controversy mounted over the event, especially when some of Omar Bakri’s more “colourful” statements made it into the press, the Board of Deputies of British Jews asked the Home Secretary to ban some particular foreign speakers coming to the conference, in particular members of Hamas and Hizbullah. In Muslim News (30 Aug 1996), Sacranie was quoted as saying:

The Board of Deputies of British Jews should seriously consider what action they take on this matter because of the detrimental effect on community relations which could result. Taking a hostile view towards scholars who wish to come to this country to present their points of view at a conference will not serve good community relations.

There are two things to note here. First, we can observe how the language of “community relations” has been twisted to support the entry of Islamist radicals into the UK. Second, there is an inherent double-standard; those who criticise Muhammad should be silenced, killed, or worse, whereas those who advocate violence against civilians should be invited to conferences.

One looks in vain for anything approaching a coherent epistemology in Sacranie’s various pronouncements and one wonders if, post 7/7, an older, wiser Sir Iqbal will pick his words more carefully … somehow we doubt it.

[whiterabbit]

BNP leader nick griffin is a racist PERIOD!  He's been charged with "incitement to racial hatred" etc and I don't have to prove it many would have seen his real views when the undercover documentery on BBC was shown.  His whole party is made of RACISTS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If anyone is this country doesn't want immigration and multiculturalism then they are racist I guess That makes most of the country or anyone who disagrees with Labours policies by your definition................

Is so easy to call the BNP racist because they challenge what is happening in the UK right now. Of course they have racist members, so does Labour and UKIP etc.

The fact is their policies are not anti race and as mentioned before they have black, jewish and hindu members.

As for the BBC documentary that was some of the worst biased reporting I have ever seen just like their reporting of the housing market.

[whiterabbit]

At least some good has come out of it then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you read searchlight for unbiased news stories and make comments like that.

Shows you ignorance mate....................................

[Solvent Celt]

Shock Horror...Labour Supporters... Racist

Traditional Labour racist, says Hodge

Patrick Wintour

Monday September 27, 2004

The Guardian

Many traditional Labour supporters are racist and the government must no longer send mixed messages out of fear of losing their support, the children's minister, Margaret Hodge, said yesterday.

Calling for an open debate on the spread of racism, she said the government's problems in managing the asylum system had made openly intolerant views legitimate. She was speaking at a fringe meeting organised by Progress magazine.

She was driven to speak out in the wake of the BNP winning a council seat in Barking, east London, on a turnout of 28%.

She said: "In some parts of Barking the fact is racism has become open and widespread."

She warned some estates were dubbed Kosovo Towers and her constituents frequently said "asylum seekers are taking our houses, mugging our neighbours, seducing our daughters and bleeding the public services dry. 

"Unless we address the growing anger of some of our traditional supporters then we will fail in our ambition of achieving an open society."

She admitted the nature of her community was changing and the pace of change was going to quicken since the birthrate of immigrant communities is higher. 

[Solvent Celt]

And I don't believe that the BNP has been found guilty of Racism ....guess what? Labour has!

The Labour Party has been found guilty of racial discrimination and victimisation against a former Birmingham City Councillor, the CRE announced today.

Raghib Ahsan, a Pakistani Muslim, was Councillor for the Sparkhill ward of Birmingham during the 1990s. The Employment Tribunal in Birmingham has ruled that the Labour Party discriminated against him between 1997 and 2000.

The Tribunal unanimously decided that:

· Mr Ahsan was discriminated against when Labour declined, in 1997, to select him as a prospective candidate for election to Birmingham City Council;

· The Labour Party victimised Mr Ahsan when it declined, in 1998, to include his name on a list of prospective candidates for local government elections;

· The Labour Party both discriminated against Mr Ahsan and victimised him when it declined, in 2000, to shortlist or select him as its candidate for the Sparkhill ward, or any other ward.

The Tribunal found that the approach to candidate selection taken by the Labour Party's West Midlands Regional Executive Committee in 1997 was 'haphazard in the extreme'.

None of the notes made by individual members of the selection panel were retained, something the Tribunal found to be 'extremely unsatisfactory', and the panel members were inconsistent in their evidence as to how they marked the various candidates.

None of them were able to tell the Tribunal with any certainty what the number of marks available was. In addition, the successful candidate in the 1997 selection had not verified his membership of the Party as required and therefore had not been a party member for the requisite 12 month period when he submitted his application.

When Mr Ahsan tried to appeal the decision, he was told there was no right of appeal and was given no reason for the decision.

It took the regional Labour Party two years and three months to reply to the special questionnaire served by the CRE on behalf of Mr Ahsan under the Race Relations Act when he applied for assistance with his complaint of discrimination. These questionnaires, covered by section 65 of the Act, can form a key part of evidence put before tribunals.

In 1998, Mr Ahsan's name was omitted from a list of candidates approved for selection by branch Labour parties for the forthcoming local government election.

The Labour Party argued that this 'arose from a misunderstanding and by mistake'. However, the Tribunal decided that the action of the regional Labour Party, in authorising branches to use the draft list excluding the applicant's name and in failing to correct the position as soon as was reasonably practicable could 'be attributed only to the respondent's intention to allow the damage done to persist, to the disadvantage of the applicant'.

The Tribunal was 'quite satisfied' that the Labour Party 'would not have similarly treated a person whose name had been accidentally omitted from the panel list but who had not brought proceedings [against the Labour Party under the Race Relations Act 1976]'.

LOL you couldn't make it up!

[homeless]

there are no black bnp members

im a member of the bnp and it strictly states membership is only open to indiginous people of the uk

go check out there website.

There are elements to detest in any group of people, it depends on your viewpoint what you find distastefull.

but have you ever listened in the street or a pub or a workplace, people are sick of immigration and labour has encouraged immigration.

So what actually happens when immigrants come and join this so called multi cultural society?

Well they go into towns and areas where they can be with there own kind, the last thing they want to do is have multi-culturism.Funny how its ok for incomers to do this but if white people did there would be serious implications.

[whiterabbit]

there are no black bnp members

im a member of the bnp and it strictly states membership is only open to indiginous people of the uk

go check out there website.

There are elements to detest in any group of people, it depends on your viewpoint what you find distastefull.

but have you ever listened in the street or a pub or a workplace, people are sick of immigration and labour has encouraged immigration.

So what actually happens when immigrants come and join this so called multi cultural society?

Well they go into towns and areas where they can be with there own kind, the last thing they want to do is have multi-culturism.Funny how its ok for incomers to do this but if white people did there would be serious implications.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure there are no black members? I thought there were black, jewish and indian members? Didn't they also run a jewish councillor in one area?