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http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/749155/Family-pubs-facing-quotfun-amp-gamesquot-tax-bombshell-which-could-drive-them-out-of-business.html

Struggling family pubs are facing a "fun & games" tax bombshell which could drive many more out of business.

Landlords will be CLOBBERED by crippling new charges if they have a pool table, dartboard, kids' play area or show Sky Sports on TV.

Even those with a QUIZ machine will be hit with an extra £2,500 bill. Popular games based on TV hits like The Weakest Link will face the same levy as one-armed bandits.

The move will cost the industry £85million a year and could finish off quiz games - enjoyed in 35,000 pubs - as landlords opt for profitable fruit machines.

Publicans last night warned next month's business rate hikes, plus a Budget rise in beer tax, will be the final straw for many boozers. Already about 40 a week are closing - and 24,000 jobs have gone in the last year.

Shadow housing minister Grant Shapps said: "Gordon Brown has pushed local community pubs to the wall. Nice pubs are getting a kicking while nothing is done about the binge-drinking dens that have wrecked our town centres."

Brigid Simmons, of the British Beer & Pub Association, warned: "There will be more people gambling, as quiz machines vanish."

The parasite is moving to kill the host. Tax tax tax it's all the govt can do to try and meet it's commitments but there isn't the money to pay for it all. Default appears the only option as they won't cut spending.

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The parasite is moving to kill the host. Tax tax tax it's all the govt can do to try and meet it's commitments but there isn't the money to pay for it all. Default appears the only option as they won't cut spending.

Oh dear. That sub-literate prose makes me want to go and listen to an honest pub bore over a pint.

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http://www.newsofthe...f-business.html

The parasite is moving to kill the host. Tax tax tax it's all the govt can do to try and meet it's commitments but there isn't the money to pay for it all. Default appears the only option as they won't cut spending.

Tax them while they can.

No need for pubs or recreation when all your post tax income goes on mortgage costs, insurance of your pledge, your council tax, your energy bills and bread with beans.

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the govt wants to destroy pubs

there is no other explanation for their behaviour over the past 10 years

Pubs are finished anyway.

No one seems to go to pubs to get drunk these days.

The pubs that actually are busy tend to serve crap, overpriced food and are filled to the brim with baby boomers, and no one else. Probably because boomers are the only people that can afford the extortionate prices, and you cant have a ciggie in a pub anymore and enjoy yourself.

For me there is no need for pubs. I can have a few drinks, a smoke and can play my music as loud as i like at home.

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Most of the pubs in my town have removed their pool tables / dart boards etc a long time ago to make more space for punters. Many pubs are also struggling to pay for sky sports licences - this may be the final straw for some pubs wrt sky tv

I can 't actually see the rationale for a 'fun' tax anyway - there doesn't seem to be an explanation in the report. Is it BBC :P

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I can 't actually see the rationale for a 'fun' tax anyway - there doesn't seem to be an explanation in the report. Is it BBC :P

Well we need more tax to pay for more CCTV's to keep us at bay incase we get tired with MP's ripping us all off.

Cons will Taxs us to death and so will Zen-Labour so feel free to vote for the party that will make a difrence and thats the UKIP or BNP as i see it.

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Shadow housing minister Grant Shapps said: "Gordon Brown has pushed local community pubs to the wall. Nice pubs are getting a kicking while nothing is done about the binge-drinking dens that have wrecked our town centres."

I liked that quote.

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Pubs are finished anyway.

No one seems to go to pubs to get drunk these days.

The pubs that actually are busy tend to serve crap, overpriced food and are filled to the brim with baby boomers, and no one else. Probably because boomers are the only people that can afford the extortionate prices, and you cant have a ciggie in a pub anymore and enjoy yourself.

For me there is no need for pubs. I can have a few drinks, a smoke and can play my music as loud as i like at home.

Pubs are dying IMO for 2 reasons:

  1. Restrictive beer ties that push up costs (identified by both CAMRA and the publicans themselves as the major issue).

  2. Poor management. I've been involved several times in organising special events that take over (for example) an upstairs room in a pub. Some landlords are great, but many couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. They are either middle-management blame-shifting career-building types installed by a PubCo, or dreamers who've invested their retirement/redundancy fund into "their very own pub", thinking that they'll just sit at the bar and chat to their mates while the money rolls in.

My £0.02 anyway :)

PS Some pubs are finding it hard, I agree, especially in rural areas.

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Pubs are dying IMO for 2 reasons:

  1. Restrictive beer ties that push up costs (identified by both CAMRA and the publicans themselves as the major issue).

  2. Poor management. I've been involved several times in organising special events that take over (for example) an upstairs room in a pub. Some landlords are great, but many couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. They are either middle-management blame-shifting career-building types installed by a PubCo, or dreamers who've invested their retirement/redundancy fund into "their very own pub", thinking that they'll just sit at the bar and chat to their mates while the money rolls in.

My £0.02 anyway :)

PS Some pubs are finding it hard, I agree, especially in rural areas.

Agreed,

Anyone who has lived near a Sam Smiths pub will tell you that you can run a pub, have a community and charge £1.40 a pint.

Our local 'Jennings' pub charges £3 a pint for worse beer.

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Pubs are finished anyway.

and are filled to the brim with ........................................................baby boomers, ............................................and no one else. Probably because ............................................................................b]boomers [/b].......................................................are the only people that can afford the extortionate prices,

.

.

.

.

.

.

Do's every genuine post have to end up being hijacked by the young and foolish boomer bashers?

Our generation lived within our means, only bought when we could afford, unlike the later generations (who bought what they could NOT afford).

I love HPC, but rarely contribute now due to these hijackers.

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Tax everything and anything.

It's a shame those who fought in WW2 for liberty and freedom, are living long enough to see the whole cycle come round again.

---

Tax the internet, why not?

Edited by Money Spinner
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I can buy bottles of beer in the supermarket for ~50-75p... yet they charge £3.50 in the pub

I can buy a litre of Vodka (or anything else) for a tenner in the supermarket.....thats £10 for 1000ml so £25p for 25ml...and I know the coke syrup they use in the machines costs next to nothing (probably around 1-2p a glass)....yet they charge around £4 for a vodka/coke in the pub.

500-1000%+ markup and they still go out of business....I've just never understood how there is never more competition on pricing between pubs. Maybe we need the supermarkets to start opening pubs...anyone fancy a pint down the local Tesco Value?

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I love HPC, but rarely contribute now due to these hijackers.

I rarely reply becuase since they upgraded the version its pretty much impossibly to go back and find your previous posts to see how people have replied...anyone got any tips?

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500-1000%+ markup and they still go out of business....I've just never understood how there is never more competition on pricing between pubs. Maybe we need the supermarkets to start opening pubs...anyone fancy a pint down the local Tesco Value?

It's not mostly about competition between individual pubs but between pub chains (e.g. Punch, M&B etc). When you consider that they're all mortgaged up to the hilt and have to charge their tenants enough to cover the interest payments, it's not hard to see why pub prices are as they are.

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[*]Restrictive beer ties that push up costs (identified by both CAMRA and the publicans themselves as the major issue).

It's both a real issue and a scapegoat for poor management.

Fortunately the worst of the big pubcos are in trouble: Punch Taverns in particular are selling up at distressed prices. I have a few grand in a fund that helps publicans buy out pubs like these to become free houses, and I expect some of those to make a good business of it.

[*]Poor management. I've been involved several times in organising special events that take over (for example) an upstairs room in a pub. Some landlords are great, but many couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. They are either middle-management blame-shifting career-building types installed by a PubCo, or dreamers who've invested their retirement/redundancy fund into "their very own pub", thinking that they'll just sit at the bar and chat to their mates while the money rolls in.

Yep, fully agreed. It's a seductive dream, but will remain a pipedream for most of us, a nightmare for a few, and a realised dream only for those who have the right business sense, management ability and social skills.

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I can buy bottles of beer in the supermarket for ~50-75p... yet they charge £3.50 in the pub

I can buy a litre of Vodka (or anything else) for a tenner in the supermarket.....thats £10 for 1000ml so £25p for 25ml...and I know the coke syrup they use in the machines costs next to nothing (probably around 1-2p a glass)....yet they charge around £4 for a vodka/coke in the pub.

500-1000%+ markup and they still go out of business....I've just never understood how there is never more competition on pricing between pubs. Maybe we need the supermarkets to start opening pubs...anyone fancy a pint down the local Tesco Value?

Sorry if I sound like I'm banging on about the one subject... here's a quote from the front page of this month's "What's Brewing", the CAMRA newspaper:

CAMRA's super-complaint argues that anti-competitive practices are inflating pub beer prices by around 50 pence a pint.

This is taken from an article about CAMRA's on-going battle to get the OFT (Office of Fair Trading) to investigate anti-competitive behaviours in the pub industry.

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What about having a get together time to time at various homes in the village, taste some decent home brew or the leftovers from the booze cruise to France, also can have the freedom to smoke in the warm if that is what the majority want ..... ;)

Edited by winkie
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What about having a get together time to time at various homes in the village, taste some decent home brew or the leftovers from the booze cruise to France, also can have the freedom to smoke in the warm if that is what the majority want ..... ;)

yeah, and you could all vote on who dun the bestist dinner, even have a prize maybe...any TV producers out there????

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I can buy a litre of Vodka (or anything else) for a tenner in the supermarket.....thats £10 for 1000ml so £25p for 25ml...and I know the coke syrup they use in the machines costs next to nothing (probably around 1-2p a glass)....yet they charge around £4 for a vodka/coke in the pub.

The soft drinks markup in pubs is scandalous and I'm surprised its legal. It's not quite as low as you make out (I last did ordering in 2002 for a bar under the NUSSL deal. Syrup for 60 litres product was around £16 ex vat, or just over 15p/pint.

Edit to add: and on soft drinks, I've seen a bar management booklet issued by one of the country's largest brewers (some of the very popular beer brands) advising on how much ice to add so that you're only serving around 2/3 of the volume of soft drink.

Like another poster, I'd certainly choose a Sam Smith's pub over most else. None in Reading sadly.

Edited by surfcat
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No more smokers poisoning the air, music blaring out of speakers, girls dancing in groups in front of the

awful live band, darts competitions, quiz nights on a dull Wednesday, no terrible themed nights or World cup

fever.

Just a nice quiet clean and odour free area to get some food with the kids. and maybe a coffee on Fridays.

The provision of regulated entertainment covers the provision of entertainment or of entertainment facilities:

the performance of a play

an exhibition of a film

an indoor sporting event

boxing or wrestling entertainment

a performance of live music

any playing of recorded music

a performance of dance

or entertainment of a similar description to live music, recorded music or dance

Entertainment facilities are facilities for enabling people to take part in entertainment:

making music

dancing

entertainment of a similar description to making music or dancing

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No more smokers poisoning the air, music blaring out of speakers, girls dancing in groups in front of the

awful live band, darts competitions, quiz nights on a dull Wednesday, no terrible themed nights or World cup

fever.

Just a nice quiet clean and odour free area to get some food with the kids. and maybe a coffee on Fridays.

The provision of regulated entertainment covers the provision of entertainment or of entertainment facilities:

the performance of a play

an exhibition of a film

an indoor sporting event

boxing or wrestling entertainment

a performance of live music

any playing of recorded music

a performance of dance

or entertainment of a similar description to live music, recorded music or dance

Entertainment facilities are facilities for enabling people to take part in entertainment:

making music

dancing

entertainment of a similar description to making music or dancing

You sound like fun.

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