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Guest AuntJess

I haven't read allthis thread and I don't know whether anyone will see this as relevant, but a lass I met on a training course, worked as a psychiatric nurse in the Liverpool area, at the place where ONE of these lads was interned. She said that she thought that there was something really odd about him, and that he gave her the creeps.unsure.gif I can't remember which of the two it was though.

As a mother and grandmother I have good feelings about children in general. I am concerned for them and want the best for them in the future. But I am not so blinded by my maternal instinct that I cannot admit that there are genuinely evil people out there, and that they show their true colours early on.

Maybe it is 'bad wiring', maybe it is bad treatment, or an interplay 'twixt the two. I only hope that no further tragedies have to ensue, in order for us to realise that some people just aren't fit to be in circulation.

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Caught tail end, as I'd had decided to abandon QT. Struck me if they could only dig up Lord Adonis (unelected) and Shirley Williams, then the Beeb is really struggling to get guests. At one time, politicians would have clamoured to appear. Only panel member of note, was Will Self.

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The Tories could only send Boris and Carole to rally the troops. Both were cringeworthy. If they are hoping to win a majority in 8 weeks time, they had better start taking the electorate seriously.

Vorderman as anything but a hostess on afternoon tv or seller of loans to the poor??? Channel 4 show they were justified in reducing her salary by some 90%...... ;)

Will self was the only ounce of intellect on the show. Old Shirley has some as well, but she's not got the humour that would appeal to anyone under-40, hence her message rarely comes across.

Interested to hear that Dimbelby was a Bullingdon Club member. Wonder what whizzing pranks he got up to as a youth? :D

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under-40, hence her message rarely comes across.

Interested to hear that Dimbelby was a Bullingdon Club member. Wonder what whizzing pranks he got up to as a youth? :D

Does this have something to do with wearing ladies clothes? ;):ph34r:

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I agree with the sentiment of your post, i.e. that the justice system does seem to work hard at protecting the rights of criminals and I worry about who they really are interested in looking after sometimes. However, I still don't see how releasing the details of the parole breach is in the public interest.

I personally, would love to know the reasons, not least because I'd like to know, firstly, how he turned out and secondly if he lives near me, but to be honest, neither of these reasons give me a right to know about his parole breach!

As for the "next door neighbour" point - i certainly would not like to live next door to a murderer, but then again, have any of us actually asked our neighbours if they have committed a murder or do you just wait for them to breach parole and read about it in the Mirror?!! ;-)

I agree - in that I think the parole issue is a red herring. I don't like the idea of people who do unspeakable things being given new identities and allowed to possibly live next door to you.

As for the 'next door neighbour' point - I grew up in a rough area and the identity of criminals was not protected. I knew my next door neighbour had been to prison for burglary. I knew the father of the family on the other side of the street two doors down had a violent history of assault, gbh etc. Knowing who they were and what they were capable of was, I think, vital information for our safety.

The thing with all the well meaning people in the world is that they speak from ivory towers where these issues never affect them. I wonder how they would feel if there is a headline in the paper one day 'toddler killed by released child killer'. Oops! We made a mistake?

I'd like to say to Jack Straw - 'if you're so sure he's reformed, rehabilitated, normal, not a danger etc - let him live next door to your granchildren'

Edited by Let's get it right

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Will self was the only ounce of intellect on the show.

Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe. Any eegit can do that. Getting into government and finding yourself trying to run a country with the help of 5 million employees is another thing.

I think a lot of politicians go in with the best of intentions but, within a few years, they realise nothing they do is ever going to make a difference. So they just pay lip service and serve their time.

What's Will Self ever done? Written a book? Tricky.

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Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe. Any eegit can do that. Getting into government and finding yourself trying to run a country with the help of 5 million employees is another thing.

I think a lot of politicians go in with the best of intentions but, within a few years, they realise nothing they do is ever going to make a difference. So they just pay lip service and serve their time.

What's Will Self ever done? Written a book? Tricky.

Snipe?He pointed out the shallowness and absurdities of the politcians that were on the show. Easy to do, I'll agree. I don't think he'd have said the same things had he been up against some political heavyweights, or even a half-intelligent politician from the shires. But they are now few and far between and rarely get on QT. Too intelligent for the masses, perhaps?

Judging by the amount of ghost-writers that churn out tomes for today's celebs and politcians, it seems the art of writing a book by one's free hand is indeed "tricky". B)

I'm no fan one way or another of Mr. Self, but the others on QT were Z-list. Easy meat for ayone with half a brain...............

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To be fair to Will, he's able to deploy more brain power than the rest of them put together.

He's ok.

Its Carol thats disappointed me most.

She tried to make a point stick over Mandelson and just couldnt stitch it

Looks totally at sea out of the "Math" arena.

Yep. She tried to win her argument by shouting over the voices of the other panellists. Somewhat lacking in intellectual substance I thought.

Didn't she get a Third at Cambridge? :P

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The Tories could only send Boris and Carole to rally the troops. Both were cringeworthy. If they are hoping to win a majority in 8 weeks time, they had better start taking the electorate seriously.

Vorderman as anything but a hostess on afternoon tv or seller of loans to the poor??? Channel 4 show they were justified in reducing her salary by some 90%...... ;)

Will self was the only ounce of intellect on the show. Old Shirley has some as well, but she's not got the humour that would appeal to anyone under-40, hence her message rarely comes across.

Interested to hear that Dimbelby was a Bullingdon Club member. Wonder what whizzing pranks he got up to as a youth? :D

Fagging?

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Will Self repeated some think tank statistics about every single government department having to make real cuts of between 14% to 25%. He said that in the case of the MOD, this meant that the country would have practically no defence capability left!

I wonder if the Argies are watching QT on BBC iPlayer?

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Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe. Any eegit can do that. Getting into government and finding yourself trying to run a country with the help of 5 million employees is another thing.

I think a lot of politicians go in with the best of intentions but, within a few years, they realise nothing they do is ever going to make a difference. So they just pay lip service and serve their time.

What's Will Self ever done? Written a book? Tricky.

Well made the only reality based comment about real term cuts whilst everyone else (and seemingly the majority of the audience) made very effort to not address something that will massively effect all our lives in the very near and fast approaching, immediate futures.

“Bite down on that” – the type of jarring sentiment that is needed to show the starkness of the situation.

*owned by Manchgirl’s legalese response – albeit I do not agree with the prevailing media and masses sentiment of sighting the actions of 10 year olds with the same sense of moral outrage that we rightly bestow Sutcliffe et al.

The response of the bootle public is somewhat confusing (and typifies the senselessness of moral majority outrage) given the fact that the children were a product of the their local society, a society that produces gangs of armed teenagers and this type of environment:

http://www.bootletimes.co.uk/news/bootle-news/2010/02/04/gangs-home-attack-nightmare-for-bootle-pensioner-97007-25757369/

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Well made the only reality based comment about real term cuts whilst everyone else (and seemingly the majority of the audience) made very effort to not address something that will massively effect all our lives in the very near and fast approaching, immediate futures.

But, as I said, it's easy to sit on the sidelines and carp.

What does Will Self think he achieves by making everyone in the country think 'We're in serious trouble'. Everyone stop spending and saving 'just in case'. Recipe for a depression.

Maybe the approach of 'let's not go on about the debt and problems the country faces until we have to, then we'll deal with it gradually - the important thing is not to panic people into stopping spending'.

Of course this raises issues about the fact that our economy relies on consumer spending in such a way that it means endless, unnecessary waste, unnecessary use of precious resources etc. but that's another argument.

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But, as I said, it's easy to sit on the sidelines and carp.

What does Will Self think he achieves by making everyone in the country think 'We're in serious trouble'. Everyone stop spending and saving 'just in case'. Recipe for a depression.

Maybe the approach of 'let's not go on about the debt and problems the country faces until we have to, then we'll deal with it gradually - the important thing is not to panic people into stopping spending'.

Of course this raises issues about the fact that our economy relies on consumer spending in such a way that it means endless, unnecessary waste, unnecessary use of precious resources etc. but that's another argument.

But we are ‘in serious trouble’!!!!!!

Yes its easy to do it when everyone else is but no one is.

This same type of situation arose on This Week last night with Tristram Hunt’s piece saying we should confront the markets and not allow them to ruin our currency if they do not like out economic policies! As Andrew Neil and Portillo pointed out we are only in this situation because of the very bad circumstance we are in and the over reliance upon massive borrowing to get by.

It is this type of ‘it’ll all be ok if we defer thinking about it’ culture that is doing far more harm and will cause far more heart ache in the public when they are confronted with inevitable wholesale public cuts and tax rises.

I think your and the general UK’s lack of appetite to face upto reality is actually now damaging the basic fabris of democracy in that none of the parties will tell us how they will ‘manage’ the economy. They are not offering us a mandate on which to vote which is deeply worrying and somewhat sinister.

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But we are ‘in serious trouble’!!!!!!

Yes its easy to do it when everyone else is but no one is.

This same type of situation arose on This Week last night with Tristram Hunt’s piece saying we should confront the markets and not allow them to ruin our currency if they do not like out economic policies! As Andrew Neil and Portillo pointed out we are only in this situation because of the very bad circumstance we are in and the over reliance upon massive borrowing to get by.

It is this type of ‘it’ll all be ok if we defer thinking about it’ culture that is doing far more harm and will cause far more heart ache in the public when they are confronted with inevitable wholesale public cuts and tax rises.

I think your and the general UK’s lack of appetite to face upto reality is actually now damaging the basic fabris of democracy in that none of the parties will tell us how they will ‘manage’ the economy. They are not offering us a mandate on which to vote which is deeply worrying and somewhat sinister.

true but you cant effectively manage the economy - the fact the people think that you can is one of the reasons we are in this mess

Government can help create an environment that does not hinder wealth creation, productivity, savings or it can create an environment that encourages cronyism, welfare dependancy, control by the elite and debt servitude. Unfortunately, due to the very nature of Governments they create the latter.

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But, as I said, it's easy to sit on the sidelines and carp.

What does Will Self think he achieves by making everyone in the country think 'We're in serious trouble'. Everyone stop spending and saving 'just in case'. Recipe for a depression.

Maybe the approach of 'let's not go on about the debt and problems the country faces until we have to, then we'll deal with it gradually - the important thing is not to panic people into stopping spending'.

Of course this raises issues about the fact that our economy relies on consumer spending in such a way that it means endless, unnecessary waste, unnecessary use of precious resources etc. but that's another argument.

So basically you advocate lies and manipulation?

You should be in government.

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The Tories could only send Boris and Carole to rally the troops. Both were cringeworthy. If they are hoping to win a majority in 8 weeks time, they had better start taking the electorate seriously.

Vorderman as anything but a hostess on afternoon tv or seller of loans to the poor??? Channel 4 show they were

Couldn't agree more, Boris the bankers mouth piece and Carole the afternoon debt ramper. Pathetic.

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Self also made the pertinent point that the government these days, due to external constraints, merely acts as a manager so all you are doing at the election is deciding who you think will be the best at administration.

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Self also made the pertinent point that the government these days, due to external constraints, merely acts as a manager so all you are doing at the election is deciding who you think will be the best at administration.

..or best at going into administration, given the budget deficit!

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7. This man had a massive input of therapy and intense help over the years , prior to his release , they did not just open the doors after keeping him for 8 years and wave him goodbye.

Looks like we may have wasted our money?

I wonder when a society just says "we just cannot afford to pay for this kind of stuff anymore" and the "lock them up and throw away the key" become the only cost effective solution. Well that and just having them put down.

The £100s of thousands that must have been wasted on this no-mark.

Yeah I know, at the other end of the social spectrum, like the £200bn wasted on another bunch of no-marks.

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It's also quite interesting that most sociopaths (back to the Bulger case) are identifiable as being bullies - yet recently when the PM was identified as coming into this category many of the voting public saw this as a positive factor and began to see him as a 'strong' individual.

For me it just confirmed what I'd always thought ...

(PS - I'm with D'oh on the Venables issue)

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How many of those who have killed humans as children have gone on to kill as adults?

Who knows? Lets face it if one of these two went on to kill again I suspect the publice would never get to know. These two also were no ordinary child killers. These two set out on th day in question to find a child to kill. They stole items to use to shove in any and every part of the childs body. They managed to convince a number of adults who saw them with the child that they were either related or were doing the right thing by the child even though the child was in clear distress. They then even tried to cover their tracks by placing the child on a railway line in an attempt to make it look like an accident proving that they knew right from wrong. its also been suggested that at least one of the two showed no remorse for his actions.

I suspect few if any other child killer or killers could match what these 2 did. The chances I suspect of them ever being rehabilitated is remote and the fact they were both let out at the same time and only let out because no one really knew what to do with them shows that its highly unlikely these 2 were really safe to be in general public.

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Who knows? Lets face it if one of these two went on to kill again I suspect the publice would never get to know. These two also were no ordinary child killers. These two set out on th day in question to find a child to kill. They stole items to use to shove in any and every part of the childs body. They managed to convince a number of adults who saw them with the child that they were either related or were doing the right thing by the child even though the child was in clear distress. They then even tried to cover their tracks by placing the child on a railway line in an attempt to make it look like an accident proving that they knew right from wrong. its also been suggested that at least one of the two showed no remorse for his actions.

I suspect few if any other child killer or killers could match what these 2 did. The chances I suspect of them ever being rehabilitated is remote and the fact they were both let out at the same time and only let out because no one really knew what to do with them shows that its highly unlikely these 2 were really safe to be in general public.

+1. IMHO they were born evil. Social background has nowt to do with. Could have been born with silver spoons in their mouths and ended up hurting someone anyway.

Linky gives update on Venables:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2881233/Jon-Venables-faces-a-sex-charge.html

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  • 225 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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