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Ruffneck

18-30 , No Study , No Job

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I'm 24 going on to 25 and been dropped in the unemployment drink as well. I was a college drop out back in 05', so I've got alot to blame on myself, and to make matters worse I'm mildly autistic. However that said some people I knew who were more on the ball academically than I was are after all these years employed in high-street shops, showing how messed up getting employment is.

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- join the public sector and get on the final salary, union-controlled gravy train. Just like the baby boomers, you can leech off the rest of society.

Think really hard about this. Working in the public sector in most roles outside of being a policeman, a nurse, a doctor, a fireman etc will suck the marrow out of your bones and leave you holding your mind in your hands. A little bit of you dies everyday. I don't know whether it is worth it.

Members of my family work, and have worked, in the public sector for years. They all loathe it. The salary is okay but, unless you get to executive management levels, the climate and environment can be horrendous.

Bauldelaire once said that it was far worse to be a poet than a prostitute . The prostitute sold her body for money, but the poet sold his mind, and in Baudelaire's case, that was a far greater crime. Well, if you go to work in the public sector, specifically local government or the civil service, they will rip your mind out of your body, chew it to bits, stamp on it, flush half of it down the toilet, and then present you with remaining half, all raggy, torn and covered with tea stains, and then have the audacity to ask for a receipt.

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Then ubiquitous internet access happenned ! So now I get the most cash I can for the tedium, and alleviate the tedium by screwing around on the internet.

Lol, I concur - but I get my work done first before I let myself surf!

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Not many IT/Management employers will be that impressed with the fact you've already sold yourself short, and currently working as a shop assistant (ftpov).

I think you are completely wrong with that. I would imagine the vast majority of managers would be impressed with someone who just went out and did any job - because there was nothing else available.

It is the ones who think they are above that who, IMO, are always the laziest and furthest up their own ****.

Give me an ex IT contractor who used to earn £500 per day - who has been working in McDOnalds for the past year - over another who has been sitting on their **** for a year. Any day.

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Thank goodness there are no consequences to having millions of young people with no attachment to their job or the place they rest their head, no sense of belonging to or responsibility towards a community which looks out for its members, no respect for leaders who hang them out to dry at every opportunity, no confidence in their own ability to be reliable providers of food and shelter for themselves or anybody else, no wealth to lose and no hope that tomorrow will be any better. Surely recovery is just around the corner.

That's the thing. No one belongs anywhere. In Limbo between adolescence and adulthood. That is why 18-30 yr olds plug themselves into the x-box, they have no where else to go. House prices are too high.

We can make the real world a better place than reality, if we want to. We should stop being materialistic, and corporations should put people more over profits. The quest for unrealistic geometric increase in profits creates soul destroying jobs. In the old days, people go into shops, and you could have a good old chat. Now you are processed, quickly and efficiently dispatched.

The Wealth Gap. The billionaire business men have more wealth than they could ever spend in 100 lifetimes - perhaps it should be shared around better to make the world a better place.

Nah, it's not going to happen is it? I'll have to keep my money in anti-depressant manufacturers in the meantime.

Edited by Money Spinner

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zombie.jpg

^Some future for him! You can find him slogging it out in some supermarket, coffee shop, fast food joint, or IT position earning £6 per hour. Just dangle the shared ownership carrot, the fabled first step on the property ladder, and this corporate zombie will keep working!

Do you want flies with that sir?

Free our young from debt. And they will come out of their x-box induced trance, to grow and prosper.

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General question: Would you advise someone who is finishing their GCSE's this summer to go to uni now?

Yes, I think if they are academically gifted and want to.

Choose 3 A-Levels, and a then degree -NOT IN A SOFT SUBJECT! Dentistry, Optometry would be my pick etc. Real jobs at the end, that cannot be offshored!

Edited by Money Spinner

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When under the age of 30 - you can go for up to a year to each of Oz, NZ, Canada and US*. For the first 3 it is as simple as applying online and then ******ing off. Any 20 Year old not doing this today needs their head examined. IMO. Why ******ing wouldn't you ?!:blink:

*For a 'gap' year between education.

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2 years A-Levels, 1 year gap year[optional], 3-4 years at University. 2015 The job market should be better by then! and house prices much, much lower :)

Edited by Money Spinner

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I am hopeful that this awful situation will offer the chance for an economic bounce. The young zombies of various kinds - and you can add to these boomers who have no pensions and falling house wealth who have to work another decade or 2 - represent a big bunch of people who would love to aspire to something if only they were not punished by the govt.

The fecking public sector and tax burden is a disgrace, and it sounds like there are awful problems in education standards.

The only people I know who got some kind of optimistic job satisfaction, between age 25-30, were all upper-middle class kids who could afford to wait for the right do-gooding public sector admin role, and never believe you that there are problems elsewhere in the economy. They are going to be in so much sh*t when they have to apply for real jobs competing with motivated ex-zombies who have nothing to lose but their chains.

Edited by Si1

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I think if you have the academic ability to get a decent degree (say 2:1) from a good uni in a real subject then its still a no-brainer to go to university. The £20k+ of debt you are going to end up with isn't exactly nice but its probably worth it for the opportunities you get.

Having a good degree has clearly been debased badly over the past 20 years but it's probably better than not having one.

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This thread is pi**ing me off. All this talk of "good" degrees, like a 2.1. When will people acknowledge that the currency has been devalued by the greed of universities?

They are LIAR DEGREES! Classifications are meaningless and baseless.

The kids have been conned and are paying severally in consequence.

To be fair, Mandelson has called the universities bluff....

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This thread is pi**ing me off. All this talk of "good" degrees, like a 2.1. When will people acknowledge that the currency has been devalued by the greed of universities?

They are LIAR DEGREES! Classifications are meaningless and baseless.

The kids have been conned and are paying severally in consequence.

To be fair, Mandelson has called the universities bluff....

A degree from a polyversity is worth feck all once one graduates, just as it always has been. Yes it's a scam that people who aren't bright enough to earn a place at a proper university are suckered into taking on huge debts for a useless degree, when said useless degree was at least free or even subsidised in the past. But those useless degrees have always been useless.

Edited by bugged bunny

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A degree from a polyversity is worth feck all once one graduates, just as it always has been. Yes it's a scam that people who aren't bright enough to earn a place at a proper university are suckered into taking on huge debts for a useless degree, when said useless degree was at least free or even subsidised in the past. But those useless degrees have always been useless.

You get out of a course what you put into it, i dont think it matters where you study, unless you want to be in the old boys club, in which case you need to go to Oxford or Cambridge. :)

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Both my degrees are from an "polyversity".........

I've gotta say that employers don't seem to care (at least in IT). In fact, most of the people sitting around me in my office have degrees from similar polyversities.

In my experience....... they are CERTAINLY worth the paper they are printed on....... they got me into the "graduate track" and are responsible for my "well above national average" wage today, 8 years on. Hell, in my "graduate intake" for my first company there was an Oxford Chemistry PhD inthe same intake. Certainly I got better value for money with my degree than she did ! We both ended up on the same wage.

Hell, if I remember right I started above the "national average wage" in my first role as a wet behind the ears graduate with a polyversity degree. So they've clearly paid for themselves and the loans and then some. Without it I would probably only be approaching that aqverage today, instead of starting on it 8 years ago and building from there.

Then again....... I got above a 1:1...... If I'd got a 2:2 or a 3 they wouldn't have been worth sh*t, becaue they wouldn't have got me into the graduate track.

I agree with the above poster....... as long as you get at least a half decent polyversity (not UEL)........ and it's in a "real" subject (not media studies or philosophy)..........and you get a 2:1 or better...... they're worth it. Or at least, they were for me.

Certainly anyone graduating GCSE's/A-Levels this year should be biting peoples arms off for places......... lets face it, you aren't going to earn bugger all over the next 3-5 years in any case. May as well kick back, have a good time, and come out with a degree at the end of it. Hopefully, you'll be lucky enough to get out of academia just as the next leg up gets going.

Yours,

TGP

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Graduated in 2004, got a job three months later and been at the same company ever since with one promotion. Started on £16.5k and it wasn't a "graduate job" but I reasoned it might take me a month to get a better offer and that would be £1k down the drain in opportuntiy cost. Now on £30k+ which is OK for me in a northern town as I have built up over a year's salary savings which is enough to relax and not worry about pissing off the boss etc.

Elder brother graduated in 2001, got made redundant recently with a decent payoff, but found a job straight after so better off for it.

Male cousin graduated 2007, straight into a job, not sure how he's getting on.

Female cousin graduated 2009, decided to stick around in uni but seems now to be coasting but has a lot of money behind her due to inheritance so I'#m not sure if she'll get anywhere in the next few years but doesn't need to anyway. Probably end up sponging of some richer bloke if she's lucky and loses some weight.

Edited by Pick It Down

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Graduated in 2004, got a job three months later and been at the same company ever since with one promotion. Started on £16.5k and it wasn't a "graduate job" but I reasoned it might take me a month to get a better offer and that would be £1k down the drain in opportuntiy cost. Now on £30k+ which is OK for me in a northern town as I have built up over a year's salary savings which is enough to relax and not worry about pissing off the boss etc.

what industry is that in?

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in my "graduate intake" for my first company there was an Oxford Chemistry PhD inthe same intake. Certainly I got better value for money with my degree than she did ! We both ended up on the same wage.

Science PhDs are almost always fully funded and involve no student loans, fees etc. It's just like having a salaried job, except you're entitled to a lot more holidays if you can get away with it with your supervisor (up to 8 weeks a year). The pay can be okay too, something like £14-20k tax free, payable quarterly, guaranteed for three or four years. It beats a £6/hour McJob if there's nothing else going, if I was advising a 21/22 year old with a science 2.1 having trouble getting a job right now I'd suggest it, could be a good way of sitting out a nasty recession. Don't get me wrong though, a PhD is bast4rd hard work!

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Science PhDs are almost always fully funded and involve no student loans, fees etc. It's just like having a salaried job, except you're entitled to a lot more holidays if you can get away with it with your supervisor (up to 8 weeks a year). The pay can be okay too, something like £14-20k tax free, payable quarterly, guaranteed for three or four years. It beats a £6/hour McJob if there's nothing else going, if I was advising a 21/22 year old with a science 2.1 having trouble getting a job right now I'd suggest it, could be a good way of sitting out a nasty recession. Don't get me wrong though, a PhD is bast4rd hard work!

Well, well that explains a lot - no wonder some people become perpetual students.

Bright people prefer working on unlocking the secrets of the universe to doing the pointless bidding of corporate fvckwits or being shouted at by disgusting, depraved city traders.

Who'd have thought?

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Both my degrees are from an "polyversity".........

I've gotta say that employers don't seem to care (at least in IT). In fact, most of the people sitting around me in my office have degrees from similar polyversities.

In my experience....... they are CERTAINLY worth the paper they are printed on....... they got me into the "graduate track" and are responsible for my "well above national average" wage today, 8 years on. Hell, in my "graduate intake" for my first company there was an Oxford Chemistry PhD inthe same intake. Certainly I got better value for money with my degree than she did ! We both ended up on the same wage.

Hell, if I remember right I started above the "national average wage" in my first role as a wet behind the ears graduate with a polyversity degree. So they've clearly paid for themselves and the loans and then some. Without it I would probably only be approaching that aqverage today, instead of starting on it 8 years ago and building from there.

Then again....... I got above a 1:1...... If I'd got a 2:2 or a 3 they wouldn't have been worth sh*t, becaue they wouldn't have got me into the graduate track.

I agree with the above poster....... as long as you get at least a half decent polyversity (not UEL)........ and it's in a "real" subject (not media studies or philosophy)..........and you get a 2:1 or better...... they're worth it. Or at least, they were for me.

Certainly anyone graduating GCSE's/A-Levels this year should be biting peoples arms off for places......... lets face it, you aren't going to earn bugger all over the next 3-5 years in any case. May as well kick back, have a good time, and come out with a degree at the end of it. Hopefully, you'll be lucky enough to get out of academia just as the next leg up gets going.

Yours,

TGP

I have a 2:2. The course I did was interesting - Geography, Glaciology etc.. - but not much to do with my present work.

I reckon when it comes to getting into graduate programmes your grade is very important. They will just filter for a certain level. Why wouldn't they. However for the general jist of just 'having a degree' - I don't think it matters much. Some people would be more impressed by a 2:2 from a 'good' Uni like Edinburgh - than a 2:1 from an 'ex college'. Others would think the opposite.

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I have a 2:2. The course I did was interesting - Geography, Glaciology etc.. - but not much to do with my present work.

I reckon when it comes to getting into graduate programmes your grade is very important. They will just filter for a certain level. Why wouldn't they. However for the general jist of just 'having a degree' - I don't think it matters much. Some people would be more impressed by a 2:2 from a 'good' Uni like Edinburgh - than a 2:1 from an 'ex college'. Others would think the opposite.

Yes, they are important because employers have yet to wake up to the fact that degree classifications are meaningless.

The Government has recognised that, so from next year graduated will get a subsidiary piece of paper with their degree certificate called a Higher Education Academic Record.

Of course, it will be a while before employers realise that the old certainties of grades are pointless, but they have been meaningless for some years.

A sad case of the Emperor's clothes.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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