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Ruffneck

18-30 , No Study , No Job

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How many of these people are out there?

Anecdotals please

Well not many doing 0% of either I would suggest based on friends of my 19yr old son. The son of one of my friends was 0%/0% for about 2 years but he had mental health issues (and parents worth millions) and is now working aged 20.

Perhaps in a year or 2 when some graduates give up looking for work?

There is already a lot of under employment though - part time jobs beneath their capablity.

My suspicion is that a lot of 30+ people who know they have no special talents beyond knowledge of the organisation are clinging limpet like to their jobs...the selfish gene is alive & well.

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yeah true , my ex girlfriends brother was 19 and was 0/0 , played video games all day or something.cannot be good for the health.

spend god knows how much on a degree thats worthless and not be able to find a job with it whilst needing to pay it off in the end.welcome to new labours britain.

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yeah true , my ex girlfriends brother was 19 and was 0/0 , played video games all day or something.cannot be good for the health.

spend god knows how much on a degree thats worthless and not be able to find a job with it whilst needing to pay it off in the end.welcome to new labours britain.

If idiots like Blair, Brown, Adam Johnson etc still insist that University Education is the be all and end all, then how about not having to pay your loan back until you hit the 40% tax bracket?!

Seems fair to me, as if a graduate never gets to that level of salary then they were obviously miss-sold an education and career path in the first place.

They may think twice about this 50% Graduates nonsense then.

There's also the issue of delaying retirement until 68, when there's already so many over 50s on the scrapheap.

Madness

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Well my bro took a cleaner job £7 hr 3 hours a day, pays double weekends when he was 20 for the last 12 years. Does not want a big house, fast car, girl/boy/beastfriend, education. His time is his own, making music, playing games, goes out plants some crops when he feels like it.

This could be quite a problem when the old try and downsize, add in the fact that the impressionable offspring bought 200k worth of terraced housing for a life time of debt in the hope no doubt that wage inflation will take place over the next 5-10 years.

Edited by pathfinder

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This could be quite a problem when the old try and downsize, add in the fact that the impressionable offspring bought 200k worth of terraced housing for a life time of debt in the hope no doubt that wage inflation will take place over the next 5-10 years.

This will be the killer move when knocking out the end of level boss. The retiring downsizers are planning for a life in a certain type of world that no longer exists.

Of course, they won't blame something so alien to them as wage deflation/stagnation. No it will because everyone else didn't work hard enough/spent all their money on 5hit etc, and now can’t afford their £300k family home (which in real terms is worth feck all).

The smarter ones however will twig early on as to what’s happening around them, and will be prepared for it.

Edited by PopGun

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All too familiar.

Eldest son, now 30, is teaching English in Korea after a series of dead-end jobs and unemployment.

He had graduated just in time for 9/11. Jobs, if you remember, froze for a while. The effect was that he missed out on the critical first appointment. The knock-on effect has continued.

Youngest son, now 28 is finally a Civil Servant. Prior to that he had less than six months work in total.

This was the result of the University of Liverpool not having the statutory provisions in place to meet the consequences of his disability related illness. Despite getting an MSc subsequently, recruitment processes, especially in the NHS, are entirely based on the first, LIAR DEGREE, classification.

He seems to be doing well.

Daughter, 29, has been unemployed for the last six months but now has a two year academic appointment. She turned down a number of part time university jobs which did not pay for the holidays and which barely paid more than benefits.

So from personal experience I can agree with the picyure painted. Their generation is suffering from a combination of a lack of jobs and Human Resources policies which are tick-box driven. Conform or die.

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Friend of mine from school hasn't worked or studied a day since he graduated in 2004. Serious mental health issues, diagnosed as clinically depressed, just stays in and plays on the computer now. Nobody knows what to do. Another friend of mine was in the same situation for about a year after graduating, then got a supermarket job and later a shop job but still lives with his parents as he doesn't think it's sensible to pay over half his take home on rent alone (south of England on slightly more than minimum wage). The second friend is happier than he was but still in a bit of a rut.

This kind of thing is happening to so many people now, I don't think you can just blame it on the individuals involved, it must be something to do with the social/economic/technological environment. Almost everybody I know in their 20s hates their job no matter what it is (shop/finance/office/academic research/teaching) and many just decide to quit without having another job lined up. I think subconsciously many young people feel unhappy about being asked to take on adult working responsibilities without being paid enough for an adult lifestyle. Even teachers and nurses in their late 20s are still living at home or paying over a third of take-home to live in student-style shared rentals, plus of course council tax, high fares to get to work, etc etc. When you are just working to survive rather than working to make a better life for yourself in the future, you are a slave. Slaves are generally not the most productive workers.

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I know three people who are now in their early 30s who have had next to no job experience in the last ten years. I also know about four or five people in their early 30s who are significantly under-employed. I also, as a matter of course, hear about mid-twenty-somethings who have not been able to find any kind of work outside MacJobs since they graduated.

A lot of this graduate employment problem, to my mind, started back in the late 90s with the dot.com crash, and has just continued for the last twelve years with another smash around 9/11 and now again in 09/10. I think the situation is far worse than the MSM actually represents. A lot of graduates have no idea just how hard it is now to find any kind of work, even with years of experience under their belt.

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I am almost 0/0. I would work but there is either nothing available or I am vastly overqualified. I would study but I cannot really afford to do another 3 years having already done 6 previously.

And on top of it all.... my years of saving don't even make me any money. Now I am just eating into them. Silly situation.

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Does it matter that they aren't studying and don't have a job, are they happy?

I doubt they're happy mate

This thing is big in Japan , they call them 'Grass Eaters' over there :lol:

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Their generation is suffering from a combination of a lack of jobs and Human Resources policies which are tick-box driven.

What other outcome would rafts of socialist agenda employment legislation produce?

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What other outcome would rafts of socialist agenda employment legislation produce?

maybe they should come out and say 'we were wrong to say you can do/be anything you want to be' - what was the statistic ; there were more photography graduates in the UK alone then there were jobs for them in the whole of Europe?

Maybe it was better with the old system

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A levels since the 90s have been way too easy so I don't blame employers offering so called graduates crap jobs, half the time they don't know what they are getting as everyone has three A's!

Which is why you look at what their degree is and how they did in it. Instead employers often seem to almost not care as long as you have 'something'. Then a few years on, they forget entirely about the education and focus singularly on niche experience - then wonder why they end up with either no options or people who have no broader skill set.

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I read with surprise the posts above concerning "graduates just at/after 9/11" not being able to find work at all, especially including MSc graduates....... as thats exactly when I graduated.

Let me see..... this would have been Sept '01. I got a BSc in Economics and Intelligent Systems 1:1 (think Econ + IT). I went for the "milkround" jobs in a half assed kind of way and got a couple of interviews that went nowhere....... kept getting rejected because my degree was half -and-half and I was going up against "full IT degree grads" so I signed on for an Msc in Web Technologies.

Graduated that in Sept. 2002...... about 3 months after the .com bust.

So, clearly not the best time (although better than now I assume).. again, graduate milkround didn't really get me anywhere (although this time I took it seriously)...... so I got a temp contract at Lewisham Social Services doing data input and sorting their electronic records out (meeting govt. standards and so on).

During THAT 12 months went through the milkround a 3rd time....... and landed 3 entry level IT roles, took the best paid one at a large software company, and went on from there, through entry-level, standard and now senior level (looking to move up into jnr. mgmt).

Don't get me wrong..... as you can see it was hard...... but when I got that first graduate role I was in an intake of about 12, and a fair portion of that intake were people who were on their first time on the milkround. One of them, it was the first job he'd even applied for !

My experience was...... you need a 2:1 at least. But if you have that and just keep plugging away, you can get in...... particularly if you are willing to take a "temp" job to indicate willingness while looking. I must have sent 100-150 applications and done 20-25 interviews over the 3 years (with maybe 20 of them in the last 2 years) but I never expected it to be anything but constantly plugging away to get in. I think it also helped that, previuous to univeristy, I'd spent a couple of years working dead end office/factory jobs........so I knew what the alternative was. Beleive me, that kept the motivation up to just keep plugging away.

All I can say is....... don't give up.......... learn from the mistakes you made in previous interviews/applications (always get feedback) and incrementally improve your application/interview technique. In my experience... if you keep plugging away you get there in the end.

I assumed I'd done poorly to take so long to get in...... particularly as the intake I eventually joined was so full of "first time out of the blocks" guys....... sounds like my experience was more typical than I thought, but still........ you HAVE to keep going. You get 3 years after graduation before you are no longer eligable for the graduate entry schemes at most places. You HAVE to go full tilt at it...... complete every application you can find....... and make sure you fully use all 3 years, don't give up before that 3 year deadline.

(although had I missed that deadline I'd have gone back for a PhD to give me another 3 years)

Yours,

TGP

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I read with surprise the posts above concerning "graduates just at/after 9/11" not being able to find work at all, especially including MSc graduates....... as thats exactly when I graduated.

Let me see..... this would have been Sept '01. I got a BSc in Economics and Intelligent Systems 1:1 (think Econ + IT). I went for the "milkround" jobs in a half assed kind of way and got a couple of interviews that went nowhere....... kept getting rejected because my degree was half -and-half and I was going up against "full IT degree grads" so I signed on for an Msc in Web Technologies.

Graduated that in Sept. 2002...... about 3 months after the .com bust.

So, clearly not the best time (although better than now I assume).. again, graduate milkround didn't really get me anywhere (although this time I took it seriously)...... so I got a temp contract at Lewisham Social Services doing data input and sorting their electronic records out (meeting govt. standards and so on).

During THAT 12 months went through the milkround a 3rd time....... and landed 3 entry level IT roles, took the best paid one at a large software company, and went on from there, through entry-level, standard and now senior level (looking to move up into jnr. mgmt).

Don't get me wrong..... as you can see it was hard...... but when I got that first graduate role I was in an intake of about 12, and a fair portion of that intake were people who were on their first time on the milkround. One of them, it was the first job he'd even applied for !

My experience was...... you need a 2:1 at least. But if you have that and just keep plugging away, you can get in...... particularly if you are willing to take a "temp" job to indicate willingness while looking. I must have sent 100-150 applications and done 20-25 interviews over the 3 years (with maybe 20 of them in the last 2 years) but I never expected it to be anything but constantly plugging away to get in. I think it also helped that, previuous to univeristy, I'd spent a couple of years working dead end office/factory jobs........so I knew what the alternative was. Beleive me, that kept the motivation up to just keep plugging away.

All I can say is....... don't give up.......... learn from the mistakes you made in previous interviews/applications (always get feedback) and incrementally improve your application/interview technique. In my experience... if you keep plugging away you get there in the end.

I assumed I'd done poorly to take so long to get in...... particularly as the intake I eventually joined was so full of "first time out of the blocks" guys....... sounds like my experience was more typical than I thought, but still........ you HAVE to keep going. You get 3 years after graduation before you are no longer eligable for the graduate entry schemes at most places. You HAVE to go full tilt at it...... complete every application you can find....... and make sure you fully use all 3 years, don't give up before that 3 year deadline.

(although had I missed that deadline I'd have gone back for a PhD to give me another 3 years)

Yours,

TGP

Problem with Temping is it has to have some attachment to the work you wish to move into. Not many IT/Management employers will be that impressed with the fact you've already sold yourself short, and currently working as a shop assistant (ftpov).

Seen too many people trapped for years in these so called temporary jobs. However they can sometines lead to other avenues.

Edited by PopGun

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Problem with Temping is it has to have some attachment to the work you wish to move into. Not many IT/Management employers will be that impressed with the fact you've already sold yourself short, and currently working as a shop assistant (ftpov).

Seen too many people trapped for years in these so called temporary jobs. However they can sometines lead to other avenues.

Well I wasn't taking it to build my CV...... I had bills to pay, and it paid them.

To be honest I don't think the temp job experience was a major factor.

In the year before this job, and the year of this job, I got about the same amount of interviews........ what DID make a difference was that I'd improved my interview technique so much that I turned a 0/10 joboffer/interview ratio in the previous year to about 3/10 ratio in the 2nd (post temp job) year.

If I hadn't got he Lewisham job...... I'd have gone back to the factories I worked in pre-uni/during-uni and just plugged away at the milround as I had been doing.

Yours,

TGP

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I lost a lot of faith in the system.

Graduated in 2000 from a good university. Scraped into a graduate role that was not my first preference but could be a foot in the door.

Earning about 30K in 2001.

Got bored of the job. Spreadsheets are nothing more than counting beans but using a computer to help you.

Also by now was already priced out of the housing market (in London). Didn't feel like I wanted to do 4x earnings in London just to get a boxroom, didn't want to be chained to the job either.

Retrained and changed career and took a temporary cut in salary but got it back to a similar level within two to three years.

Again, just realised that working in an office is the same old cr@p:

- gossip, politicking, people getting ahead by (figuratively) suc king c 0ck, oh and the work is still the same even though a different career - office work never changes IMO.

Quit career again. btw I worked at 2-3 companies in each career. Also tried management and it stressed me out, affected my health

Luckily I'm now making money online. It's really not much at all, but I'm happier.

What does the future hold for anyone 30 or younger who has missed out on getting on the gravy train housing ladder?

- do a soul-sucking higher rate job. If you're lucky, you might actually enjoy it (e.g. you do well at office politics, you are valued and love your job like some programmers)

- join the public sector and get on the final salary, union-controlled gravy train. Just like the baby boomers, you can leech off the rest of society.

- do a regular job (e.g. bar work). More social, less (but still some) bullsh1t. It pays cr@p so you need a separate longer term plan i.e. self-employment.

Also, I never forget that most people feel "plugged into" the matrix. You don't have to live and work near where you were born or where your friends are. You don't even need to stay in the same country.

I had wanted to go to Korea or elsewhere in Asia to do English teaching but there are some personal circumstances that prevent this at the moment. IMO, China will be kicking in 10 years time and that is where I plan to be. Bye-bye USA.

Whatever you do, don't get sucked into the soul destroying, useless, office-based service sector economy. Especially call centres and the like. I would rather be an overnight supermarket shelf stacker than have some twerp "team leader" tell me that I'm not closing enough calls.

So my 3rd bullet above. If you don't make a packet then you'll end up with nothing in your later years. Hence why I suggest self-employment income. But just look at the crash - Brown bailed everyone out who screwed up. I'm extremely tempted to not bother saving for retirement. Potentially, I could have nothing to lose if this track record continues.

Edited by rolf

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My brother and sister have been unemployed 3 years - no job. I'm sure they don't want one - sis always going to some guy's/friend's and bro sits and plays games all day. I'd do the same if it weren't for my decent job - there's no hope for people like them. Doing some crap job for £12k+, what's the point? As somebody says, they're encouraged to become adults but aren't compensated as adults should be.

Have you ever seen the film 'Them'? It's about alien invaders... but do you remember the main guy, worked on-site etc. I'd love to work in decent climes doing outdoor graft - think it would be awesome, if poorly paid. I know a good guy from another forum who was an accountant for years but then went into forestry later in life!!

I graduated 2007 in electronics, got a first, many job offers. Now in my second job, doing ok. Engineering doesn't pay the world but I took it as I knew there would always be the chance of a decent job (at least for now).

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I lost a lot of faith in the system.

Graduated in 2000 from a good university. Scraped into a graduate role that was not my first preference but could be a foot in the door.

Earning about 30K in 2001.

Got bored of the job. Spreadsheets are nothing more than counting beans but using a computer to help you.

Also by now was already priced out of the housing market (in London). Didn't feel like I wanted to do 4x earnings in London just to get a boxroom, didn't want to be chained to the job either.

Retrained and changed career and took a temporary cut in salary but got it back to a similar level within two to three years.

Again, just realised that working in an office is the same old cr@p:

- gossip, politicking, people getting ahead by (figuratively) suc king c 0ck, oh and the work is still the same even though a different career - office work never changes IMO.

Quit career again. btw I worked at 2-3 companies in each career. Also tried management and it stressed me out, affected my health

Luckily I'm now making money online. It's really not much at all, but I'm happier.

What does the future hold for anyone 30 or younger who has missed out on getting on the gravy train housing ladder?

- do a soul-sucking higher rate job. If you're lucky, you might actually enjoy it (e.g. you do well at office politics, you are valued and love your job like some programmers)

- join the public sector and get on the final salary, union-controlled gravy train. Just like the baby boomers, you can leech off the rest of society.

- do a regular job (e.g. bar work). More social, less (but still some) bullsh1t. It pays cr@p so you need a separate longer term plan i.e. self-employment.

Also, I never forget that most people feel "plugged into" the matrix. You don't have to live and work near where you were born or where your friends are. You don't even need to stay in the same country.

I had wanted to go to Korea or elsewhere in Asia to do English teaching but there are some personal circumstances that prevent this at the moment. IMO, China will be kicking in 10 years time and that is where I plan to be. Bye-bye USA.

Whatever you do, don't get sucked into the soul destroying, useless, office-based service sector economy. Especially call centres and the like. I would rather be an overnight supermarket shelf stacker than have some twerp "team leader" tell me that I'm not closing enough calls.

So my 3rd bullet above. If you don't make a packet then you'll end up with nothing in your later years. Hence why I suggest self-employment income. But just look at the crash - Brown bailed everyone out who screwed up. I'm extremely tempted to not bother saving for retirement. Potentially, I could have nothing to lose if this track record continues.

I suppose I'm lucky in a sense. In that I never expected any job to be anything other than soul-sucking tedium.

I've never had a job I "enjoyed" ......... so I always aimed for a job that paid the most cash for the soul-sucking tedium 8 hours a day.

Then ubiquitous internet access happenned ! So now I get the most cash I can for the tedium, and alleviate the tedium by screwing around on the internet.

It sounds to me as if your expectations were too high. Inb my experience the only people who have told me they "love their job" and genuinely seemed to mean it were primary school teachers (and I know loads of them as my wife is a teacher).

As for me........ keep putting in my 40 hours a week, so that I've got the cash to enjoy the rest of my time and (hopefully) many years down the line get to a position where I can cut that to 20 hours a week.

Life's hard.

Anyone who went into life thinking anything different was always going to be disappointed. To be honest, I feel lucky to be getting by soul-sucking 40 hours a week in an office........ had I been of an earlier generation it may have been down a mine, or on an assembly line.

At least I get a comfy chair and internet access.

Yours,

TGP

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Thank goodness there are no consequences to having millions of young people with no attachment to their job or the place they rest their head, no sense of belonging to or responsibility towards a community which looks out for its members, no respect for leaders who hang them out to dry at every opportunity, no confidence in their own ability to be reliable providers of food and shelter for themselves or anybody else, no wealth to lose and no hope that tomorrow will be any better. Surely recovery is just around the corner.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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