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Coming Public Sector Cutbacks Will Hit Economy


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Does anyone think there was a particular time when we had the balance between private and public sector 'right'?

For me it was the late 60s, just before I was born unfortunately. A good balance of business freedom and service provision. The early 70s are regarded as when we had 'peak' real incomes, for good reason.

Sounds about right, it was the mid 70s (I think) when the public sector overspill began. Also gave birth to Yes Minister.

I also wonder how many laws/legislation were in force in the UK in the 60s compared to today?!? I reckon there's a direct correlation there.

Plus in the 60s/early 70s, you could leave school at 15 and still find worthwhile employment available.

Unlike now were it’s a choice of undertaking yet more useless education or public sector work (if you’re lucky).

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The nhs is bloated for sure, my opinion of it is low at the moment.

As some already know, I am on incapacity benefit, I am 31 years old and have had my health problem since I was 25 and a half.

When my problem was new to me I must have made easily 30 or 40 GP visits within a year, out of those visits I had maybe 5 or 6 hospital refferals which led to some MRI scans on my head and back and was told no obvious problem found. At that point the GP's gave up and all my latest visits I get the impression they think I am either lying or they don't consider it serious.

Now when nhs direct first was introduced I used it a few times as had severe pains in legs and feet and a ambulance took me to the hospital for painkillers and diagnosis, it also took me home.

However late last year I had very severe diarhoee following a bad reaction to anti biotics, I was extremely dehydrated rejecting water , severe pain in bowel and stomach and couldnt sleep. numerous 999 calls even after I told was advised to use by 999 by out of hours GP I ended up been threatened with the police for using up 999 resources, I told the police to come but their threat was clearly a bluff. NHS direct this time refused an ambulance stating not enough resources (cost cuts?) so clearly the NHS is now worse than it was a few years back and also my GP refused a home visit.

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The only things the state should provide are things that can't sensibly be contracted for. the only one I can really think of is emergency healthcare.

How do you contract with a man lying unconscious in a pool of blood?

You could just assume he wants his life saving and go ahead and do it, but then having made the decision on his behalf you can't really chase him for payment.

You could argue that you should take insurance or be left for dead, but that doesn't really work either.

I suppose you could always wear a wrist band that says 'try to save if found in a puddle of blood' or something along those lines, wioth your credit card number attached.

Edited by frozen_out
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When I worked for the NHS we were knee deep in management consultants and buddies of the management consultants who wangled a way on to the NHS books permanently. Useless idiots the lot.

As for the private sector feeding at the public teet, you really shouldn't mention uncomfortable facts like that, it upsets the free market evangelists.

Nearly all my work comes from wasteful MOD spending. Won't be long until my work dries up, they cannot continue wasting money like they are at the moment.

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Nearly all my work comes from wasteful MOD spending. Won't be long until my work dries up, they cannot continue wasting money like they are at the moment.

The saddest thing is: they can't, but they mostly will, until they hit a wall - IMF.

Tragic.

And the main cause, in our democracy, is the inadequacy of the majority of voters, unable even to reach a reasonable level of abstract and mathematical thinking. Most can't even read/understand data in a chart, like the one below. If they could understand those charts, they would riot towards downing street, and towards Gordon Brown (who kept interest rates too low for too long, via his tampering with the inflation index in 2003 - RPI/CPI). But instead, and alas, we have some 30% of voters that still plan to vote Labour... Tragic.

Like I've posted elsewhere:

If you can read charts, these 2 will change your view of the future of Britain, and your view of your own future in it - or elsewhere... The crisis is well beyond properties prices.

They were the talk of the town at Davos - according to Gillian Tett, FT, at Andrew Neil's BBC. And Gillian also said that sovereign fund managers (including the Chinese) were willing to bail out the USA - "too big to fail" - but NOT Britain. Peston also mentioned the Mckinsey report it in his BBC blog.

debt-sovereign.png

What the Mckinsey's chart shows very "graphically" (sorry), is how worse Britain's situation is - worst level (total debt) and also worst angle of ascent! The forecast for Britain is tragic, we will have a hard decade, fall behind previously similar countries, and never recover the same position.

McK%205.jpg

Source: Mckinsey Institute. http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/reports/freepass_pdfs/debt_and_deleveraging/debt_and_deleveraging_full_report.pdf

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The nhs is bloated for sure, my opinion of it is low at the moment.

As some already know, I am on incapacity benefit, I am 31 years old and have had my health problem since I was 25 and a half.

When my problem was new to me I must have made easily 30 or 40 GP visits within a year, out of those visits I had maybe 5 or 6 hospital refferals which led to some MRI scans on my head and back and was told no obvious problem found. At that point the GP's gave up and all my latest visits I get the impression they think I am either lying or they don't consider it serious.

Now when nhs direct first was introduced I used it a few times as had severe pains in legs and feet and a ambulance took me to the hospital for painkillers and diagnosis, it also took me home.

However late last year I had very severe diarhoee following a bad reaction to anti biotics, I was extremely dehydrated rejecting water , severe pain in bowel and stomach and couldnt sleep. numerous 999 calls even after I told was advised to use by 999 by out of hours GP I ended up been threatened with the police for using up 999 resources, I told the police to come but their threat was clearly a bluff. NHS direct this time refused an ambulance stating not enough resources (cost cuts?) so clearly the NHS is now worse than it was a few years back and also my GP refused a home visit.

Sounds like Mad Cow....you should see a vet.

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What do you mean by "clinician", exactly?

sorry for the late answer, no time to browse HPC at work.....

i am a clinical psychologist specialising in cognitive behaviour therapy (identified as very cost effective in the layard report a few years ago). 3 years training as an undergrad, 3 doing a doctorate then a considerable amount of post-doc training. is that what you would call a 'clinician'?

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recent article in the Economist comparing national healthcare systems.

NHS was pretty middle of the road. Get passable value for a passable amount of spend.

Used to be much better value iirc, until New Labour started spaying money around.

I'm convinced we could have a decent service at an affordable cost, we just need to re-think our priorities and ambitions -- which might involve some brutal choices, and any of us could be on the unfortunate receiving end of those choices some day, but that's just life (or death, as the case may be).

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With all respect, just because you can get away with charging £75 or £90 per hour does not mean that you are somehow 'gifting' us of your prescence by working for the NHS for £24 per hour - it simply means that you have had private patients who have either paid to queue job or for some perverse ego kick out of being able to pay to go privately. Ditto for the insurance work.

The snob mentality is rife in the UK - especially so in the perceived snobbery of being able to pay for healthcare.

i did not mean to imply i was gifting anything to anyone, i work for ther NHS out of a sense of commitment to the ideal of free health care. i was just pointing out that in hard economic terms i am paid less in the public sector than the private as a means of demonstrating that some clinicians provide value for money to taxpayers. or put another way, by reducing someone's debilitating mental illness you are making them more able to contribute economically and as importantly socially. i am no fan of private healthcare btw, just had a spot of financial bother and it made more sense than doing something else to earn the money i needed to get.

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i did not mean to imply i was gifting anything to anyone, i work for ther NHS out of a sense of commitment to the ideal of free health care. i was just pointing out that in hard economic terms i am paid less in the public sector than the private as a means of demonstrating that some clinicians provide value for money to taxpayers. or put another way, by reducing someone's debilitating mental illness you are making them more able to contribute economically and as importantly socially. i am no fan of private healthcare btw, just had a spot of financial bother and it made more sense than doing something else to earn the money i needed to get.

Surely you should work for free is you are commited to the ideal of free healthcare?

Just a thought, like.

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Surely you should work for free is you are commited to the ideal of free healthcare?

Just a thought, like.

:lol:

mind you the hours i do it feels like i am working for free sometimes.

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Even were you to be right, the simple truth is that the public sector has been too large for too long. It is not enough to trim it back to what it should be. It has to be cut back until the overhang is neutralised.

If the public sector has accounted for (spent) 50% of wealth for 5 years, the it must be reduced as far as possible (5 - 10%) until balance is restored. Then gradual expansion can be considered.

I'd be far more radical than most posters. NHS - shut it. State education - an aspiration for the future. Welfare and benefits - nice idea, let's look at it again after health and education are sorted out. Street lights, rubbish disposal, libraries and so forth are indulgences for rich nations. We aren't one of them.

p-o-p

I'd vote for you!!

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sorry for the late answer, no time to browse HPC at work.....

i am a clinical psychologist specialising in cognitive behaviour therapy (identified as very cost effective in the layard report a few years ago). 3 years training as an undergrad, 3 doing a doctorate then a considerable amount of post-doc training. is that what you would call a 'clinician'?

There you go. I knew you were not a medical doctor, as they earn MUCH more than £20/hour in the NHS.

Also, how come you go from a 3 years undergrad straight to a "doctorate" without a master's degree? Was that "doctorate" from a (proper) British University?

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There you go. I knew you were not a medical doctor, as they earn MUCH more than £20/hour in the NHS.

Also, how come you go from a 3 years undergrad straight to a "doctorate" without a master's degree? Was that "doctorate" from a (proper) British University?

Eh? Outside the Arts this is quite common. Your poo-throwing tactics make you look like a bit of monkey btw.

Edited by Cogs
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He has a 3 years psychology degree, supposedly, and from who knows which "university".

Does it make any difference ? There is no basis for saying one degree is better than another, they are a con, LIAR DEGREES !

The NHS is asked to do an awful lot, but too many local managers after glory are messing it up, at additional cost.

Like spending £50,000 plus in legal costs at an Employment Tribunal while refusing to meet the complainant before the hearing.

Like changing shift patterns so thar MIdwives would have to work 12 hour shifts. How good are you after working 12 hours in an under resourced job? Would you risk your child to that 'economy'?

As an economy, as a society, we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. We need a fresh perspective.

Sadly, I see none on offer.

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Most people in the public sector work hard, make a valuable contribution to society and are not especially well-paid. I've worked in the public sector and I know many people who do so at pesesnt.

However, there is one area where public employees have, until recently, been in a better position than private sector ones, and that is job security. But now we're seeing the likelihood of tens of thousands of redundancies in the public sector, a lot of people are worried about their futures. This will have the effect that they won't want to spend money or take on loans. If you tell 100 people that 10 of them will be made redundant, that will worry 100 people, not just 10. This is certain to hit the general economy significantly, I reckon.

I suspect it will take an age for actual redundancies to seep through of any great degree and in any event there'll be a little slack with temp costs, non-payroll costs , advertising, consultants etc etc to come through first

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There you go. I knew you were not a medical doctor, as they earn MUCH more than £20/hour in the NHS.

Also, how come you go from a 3 years undergrad straight to a "doctorate" without a master's degree? Was that "doctorate" from a (proper) British University?

And they too earn a lot more in the private sector! ........................£300 per hour for a specialist consultant in a shortage speciality. Even the average is £200/hr for boring medicolegal stuff! http://www.greenmedicolegal.com/fees.htm

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