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Reaching A Tipping Point


Setantii
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The workers at Cadbury's (a profitable company even in this economic storm) are taxpayers and as such helped to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland via the government's intervention.

Then Kraft get a huge loan, a large amount of which is from said bank, purchase Cadbury's and today announce they are making 400 workers redundant - these poor lovers have in fact helped finance their own job losses!

Are British workers so apathetic that they will continue to put up with outrageous acts like this? Am I the only one who feels like throwing a few molotovs around?

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The workers at Cadbury's (a profitable company even in this economic storm) are taxpayers and as such helped to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland via the government's intervention.

Then Kraft get a huge loan, a large amount of which is from said bank, purchase Cadbury's and today announce they are making 400 workers redundant - these poor lovers have in fact helped finance their own job losses!

Are British workers so apathetic that they will continue to put up with outrageous acts like this? Am I the only one who feels like throwing a few molotovs around?

No.

On the day the deal was done I was angrier than I've been for ages about anything.

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Were these people not going to be made redundant by Cadbury away.

All that Kraft did was say ~ of course we'll not make all of you trusted employees redundant, like your nasty current boss will, now give me your lovely company.

And then ~ Oh yeah about that, we lied, bye

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The workers at Cadbury's (a profitable company even in this economic storm) are taxpayers and as such helped to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland via the government's intervention.

Then Kraft get a huge loan, a large amount of which is from said bank, purchase Cadbury's and today announce they are making 400 workers redundant - these poor lovers have in fact helped finance their own job losses!

Are British workers so apathetic that they will continue to put up with outrageous acts like this? Am I the only one who feels like throwing a few molotovs around?

Um, looks increasingly as if Cadburys was not in fact profitable, and had something substantial to hide.

They've already made lots of workers redundant. 7000 in the last 3 years springs to mind, but that's from memory so ICBW.

They were already closing the Keynsham factory.

Yes, taxpayers money going to RBS is outrageous. Implicit taxpayers money underwriting current and future gambling even more so. But lending money on a particular deal is not in itself a problem.

FWIW, I think Kraft has shot itself in the foot. Not on the scale of Lloyds with HBoS, but nevertheless foolish. Time will tell.

But revisionist history pretending Cadburys was something it wasn't (or once was but had long ceased to be) - like a beacon of British Industry - appears set to pass into folklore.

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Um, looks increasingly as if Cadburys was not in fact profitable, and had something substantial to hide.

They've already made lots of workers redundant. 7000 in the last 3 years springs to mind, but that's from memory so ICBW.

They were already closing the Keynsham factory.

Yes, taxpayers money going to RBS is outrageous. Implicit taxpayers money underwriting current and future gambling even more so. But lending money on a particular deal is not in itself a problem.

FWIW, I think Kraft has shot itself in the foot. Not on the scale of Lloyds with HBoS, but nevertheless foolish. Time will tell.

But revisionist history pretending Cadburys was something it wasn't (or once was but had long ceased to be) - like a beacon of British Industry - appears set to pass into folklore.

I notice Warren Buffet thought that Kraft was shated on the deal and overpaid. Maybe poetic justice.

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The workers at Cadbury's (a profitable company even in this economic storm) are taxpayers and as such helped to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland via the government's intervention.

Then Kraft get a huge loan, a large amount of which is from said bank, purchase Cadbury's and today announce they are making 400 workers redundant - these poor lovers have in fact helped finance their own job losses!

Are British workers so apathetic that they will continue to put up with outrageous acts like this? Am I the only one who feels like throwing a few molotovs around?

i dont think people give a crap as long as it doesnt affect them directly.

people dont give a crap about my affordable housing needs, i dont give a crap about pension services or healthcare needs.

and so it goes..

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And the winner was of course the giant squid and the others... :angry:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/183517-cadbury-kraft-buffett-doesn-t-like-it-but-goldman-does

"....... The amount of fees which would become payable to the banks in the event of a transaction being completed with Kraft (or another third party that makes an offer for the company during the offer period) are higher than those payable if no transaction is consummated".

What this means is that Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and UBS - the banks hired to "defend" Cadbury against Kraft's hostile bid - are to be paid more for selling Cadbury to Kraft than for preserving its independence...."

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i dont think people give a crap as long as it doesnt affect them directly.

people dont give a crap about my affordable housing needs, i dont give a crap about pension services or healthcare needs.

and so it goes..

The consumer society taught people to think only of themselves and their patch and it was taking selfishness to the extreme that has brought society to the point ruin. Selfishness is self-defeating - when it all goes wrong there's no-one there to help pick up the pieces.

The Century of the Self.

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And the winner was of course the giant squid and the others... :angry:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/183517-cadbury-kraft-buffett-doesn-t-like-it-but-goldman-does

"....... The amount of fees which would become payable to the banks in the event of a transaction being completed with Kraft (or another third party that makes an offer for the company during the offer period) are higher than those payable if no transaction is consummated".

What this means is that Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and UBS - the banks hired to "defend" Cadbury against Kraft's hostile bid - are to be paid more for selling Cadbury to Kraft than for preserving its independence...."

Serves Cadbury's right, they should have hired a UK bank to look after their interests.

Oh, they had that for years, RBS.

Who is next, the collapsed pound is great for these shafting deals.

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I'm not too bothered, I had a feeling Kraft were going to outsource anyway, but not this soon, while Cadbury's as a brand and a company has been going down the crapper for perhaps many years now (Nestle' is as big as ever, the supermarket brands are OK, and the German/Belgium brands sold at Lidl beats them all). Kraft Foods comes as across as another corporate dinosaur, it will all eventually come crashing down in flames - our economy is already drastically imploding partially from the outsourcing of millions of jobs, why are these idiotic (as they're large) multinational companies still doing it?! Britain and Ireland will become economic basket cases on the scale of Argentina, with perhaps an uncontrollable upsurge of revolutionary and authoritarian politics.

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I'm not too bothered, I had a feeling Kraft were going to outsource anyway, but not this soon, while Cadbury's as a brand and a company has been going down the crapper for perhaps many years now (Nestle' is as big as ever, the supermarket brands are OK, and the German/Belgium brands sold at Lidl beats them all). Kraft Foods comes as across as another corporate dinosaur, it will all eventually come crashing down in flames - our economy is already drastically imploding partially from the outsourcing of millions of jobs, why are these idiotic (as they're large) multinational companies still doing it?! Britain and Ireland will become economic basket cases on the scale of Argentina, with perhaps an uncontrollable upsurge of revolutionary and authoritarian politics.

You were doing quite well there until you headed into TFH orbit.

But yes, I think corporations like Kraft (and GM, GE, Cisco etc.) are dinosaurs that are pretty much reliant on an equally redundant Big Finance corporations to keep them alive via arcane/opaque financial paper shuffling exercises rather than surviving on their core business(es).

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It`s the legal responsibilty of Krafts CEO to maximise profit - consideration for jobs should not even enter the equation ...

If Kraft decide more profit is to be made by outsourcing to Poland( as Cadburys did) then so be it ,,,

Maybe the British worker needs to think a bit deeply about why this move is been made and examining whether or not their redundancy maybe due to the fact that their wage levels are unsustainable ...

Of course the other alternative is to follow the Belgium/French line of attack and kidnap the management until the decision is overturned .

Edited by Wires 74
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It`s the legal responsibilty of Krafts CEO to maximise profit - consideration for jobs should not even enter the equation ...

If Kraft decide more profit is to be made by outsourcing to Poland( as Cadburys did) then so be it ,,,

Maybe the British worker needs to think a bit deeply about why this move is been made and examining whether or not their redundancy maybe due to the fact that their wage levels are unsustainable ...

Of course the other alternative is to follow the Belgium/French line of attack and kidnap the management until the decision is overturned .

Gordon Brown will get right on the case - "Polish Workers for British Chocs!"

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Does anyone eat the Cadbury's stuff still?

It all tastes like veg oil and sugar to me.

I used to like Green & Black but they sold out to Cadbury not so long ago.

I don't think Cadbury can even call Dairy Milk bars chocolate on the continent these days because

the cocoa content is so low.

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Maybe the British worker needs to think a bit deeply about why this move is been made and examining whether or not their redundancy maybe due to the fact that their wage levels are unsustainable ...

Compared to China and India all our wage levels are 'unsustainable'- if by unsustainable you mean higher. What's really odd though is how the ever increasing wages of CEO's and upper management always somehow remain 'sustainable'- no matter how much trouble a company might be in.

By a curious quirk of fate the only group who seem to be exempt from the inexorable march of global competition are the guys at the top, whose 'talents' seem to become scarcer as the pool of potential candidates for their positions increases. Given the frantic rate of mergers and acquisitions over the past few years, one might expect there to be a lot of top execs around looking for work these days- but the availability of all this 'talent' does not seem to have impacted on executive pay at all- funny that.

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You were doing quite well there until you headed into TFH orbit.

I don't expect a civil war, but a failing/vanishing economy and widespread, long term unemployment will none the less stoke up widespread discontent that would be harder to contain than it was in the 70s & 80s (when twenty somethings could more easily buy a house), with the UK state and society getting drastically overhauled.

But yes, I think corporations like Kraft (and GM, GE, Cisco etc.) are dinosaurs that are pretty much reliant on an equally redundant Big Finance corporations to keep them alive via arcane/opaque financial paper shuffling exercises rather than surviving on their core business(es).

I don't particularily despise Kraft Foods, since Cadbury-Schweppes was mainly peddling second rate chocolate products, it floated its fizzy pop division on the stock market (not really running it), and has not seriously innovated or introduced brands for many years (say what you will about Nestle', indirect baby killers and all, but at least they expanded the Kit Kat brand). And relocating to Poland was Cadbury's plan formulated years in advance, to save on paying a few hundred workers real wages, making a killing with the land the original factory was built on, but that didn't stop them from getting taken over by the equally clumsy Kraft Foods.

Edited by Big Orange
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Does anyone eat the Cadbury's stuff still?

It all tastes like veg oil and sugar to me.

I used to like Green & Black but they sold out to Cadbury not so long ago.

I don't think Cadbury can even call Dairy Milk bars chocolate on the continent these days because

the cocoa content is so low.

I for one am quite partial to the odd Creme Egg and Double Decker! :)

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I'm not a fan of outsourcing, but I do think the products are rubbish, and I've heard (through the partner of someone in the personnel department at the Keynsham Factory) that many of the production line workers with many years of service were massively overpaid in terms of the skills and qualifications required to do the job relative to other British workers.

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Yes, but were the screwed over employees as massively overpaid and competent as the employers that doubled crossed them? And while I say Cadbury's is making second rate chocolate, it does not make it bad chocolate on principle, only that they've not seriously innovated in decades and better chocolate products have come onto the market.

Edited by Big Orange
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