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Millions In Denial Face Retirement Poverty After Remortgaging & Low Savings


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+1 I could not have put it better myself.

But sadly I suspect that half of them think that BTL is the answer and will all go for it big style.

Let them get into more debt, actually I encourage everybody outside of my family and friends to keep spending, buy more stuff and take on more debt.

When the piper calls I will clean up real good, as will a lot of the folk on this forum.

Patience. It's coming.

(PS. ^ Meaning that I'm a tightwad and avoid debt like the plague)

Edited by cashinmattress
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Seems a smart move to me. Ill be spending the kids inheritance thank you very much, as to act prudently will only see the pension fund barons steal the pot, and the government steal the house to pay for elderly care. Dead right, there is 0 point in saving in this country. MEW the lot and ENJOY! Pension Credit here I come.................

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Does anyone from the Wail read this site? That story encapsulates (with the exception of BTL, which it doesn't mention) pretty much all the health warnings related to the 'my property is my pension' line of thought that have been expressed here on a regular basis over the last 2-3 years.

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In an ideal country by the age of retirement 65 to 70 you should be completely debt free and have saved something every month throughout your working life into a mixture of investments..reviewing them on a regular basis....this should fund an income for a relaxing retirement. What we are finding instead of saving people have been living beyond their means, withdrawing equity from a home that should be completely paid for. Withdrawing equity is taking on more debt, withdrawing equity to buy a BTL is taking on more debt.

My BTL is my retirement income. :lol:

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In an ideal country by the age of retirement 65 to 70 you should be completely debt free and have saved something every month throughout your working life into a mixture of investments..reviewing them on a regular basis....this should fund an income for a relaxing retirement. What we are finding instead of saving people have been living beyond their means, withdrawing equity from a home that should be completely paid for. Withdrawing equity is taking on more debt, withdrawing equity to buy a BTL is taking on more debt.

My BTL is my retirement income. :lol:

course, they should also have become the elders of the family, guiding the young ones on how to provide for their own little community.

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In an ideal country by the age of retirement 65 to 70 you should be completely debt free and have saved something every month throughout your working life into a mixture of investments..reviewing them on a regular basis....this should fund an income for a relaxing retirement. What we are finding instead of saving people have been living beyond their means, withdrawing equity from a home that should be completely paid for. Withdrawing equity is taking on more debt, withdrawing equity to buy a BTL is taking on more debt.

My BTL is my retirement income. :lol:

Of course, if you have paid off your mortgage as well, that means that you don't have to worry about housing costs. For us, if we remove housing, childcare and one of the cars from the budget, we could have a 70% drop in gross income for the same standard of living. But there again I'm a bit dogmatic about never extending the mortgage term..

The other thing about pensions is the utterly unrealistic expectations - the idea that 2/3rds of pre-retirement income is *required* seems very excessive.

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...hardly meet the mortgage repayments.... <_<

ah but if you are on pension credit your mortgage interest is paid. A post on MSE (aka the whingers forum) recently cited an example of a 55 year old (10 years from retirement) with a circa 185,000 pound interest only mortgage who was wondering how he could service/pay the mortgage in retirement. Maybe he was hoping the current generous - we will pay the interest on your mortgage if you can't - policy will continue indefinately.

Have to agree with fluffy666 - mortgage etc are the biggest drain on your income. In retirement with a small modest income with your mortgage paid off you do not need 2/3rds of your final income to survive and unless you wish for round the world cruises, your needs (as opposed to your wants) are minimal. :)

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course, they should also have become the elders of the family, guiding the young ones on how to provide for their own little community.

That is actually a very important point .

Today's parents (from the boomers to those in the late 20's) are not equipped to coach their offspring into sensible financial management. It is a huge problem exacerbated by the recklessness of Lab Government's policies and view.

There really needs to be a crisis, Argentina style.

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In an ideal country by the age of retirement 65 to 70 you should be completely debt free and have saved something every month throughout your working life into a mixture of investments..reviewing them on a regular basis....this should fund an income for a relaxing retirement. What we are finding instead of saving people have been living beyond their means, withdrawing equity from a home that should be completely paid for. Withdrawing equity is taking on more debt, withdrawing equity to buy a BTL is taking on more debt.

My BTL is my retirement income. :lol:

It clearly has completely passed you by the pension crisis going on. (Obviously too busy watching HPC to see when you 20 somethings can buy your mansion), but anyone with a couple of braincells can work out exactly what has happened. The current pre-retirement and retirement generation have indeed paid into pension plans all their working lives. They were instructed to do so by consecutive governments due to the risk of state shortfall that they DIDNT wish to pass onto future generations. What has happened? Pensions have been robbed by 70%. Thats 70% of actual £'s, earned every week, put away in pension plans. This retirement generation has been the first generation who did infact look to support privately their retirement. Only to get mugged.

A £200k pension fund will currently buy you approx £12k per annum income, and dont forget that gets taxed as well. Put the 70% back on that theyve wiped off the pots and you may start to understand just how much pensioners and those prudent to save have been ripped off. It is a national outrage, but clearly one that really doesnt interest you.

Tell me, oh 20/30 somethings, what pension provisions are you preparing? As believe me, you are in exactly the same boat........... and yes, those lucky enough to have a BTL to supplement the pension pot ransacking will be the ONLY ones with a back up plan, as at least rents will map maket values. My advice to the up and coming generations, BTL is the ONLY way to guarantee an income, as put into ANY pension provision (even with employers contributions) will get ransacked on a regular basis. You will be in no different position.

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This is one of the reasons why house prices are not dropping like in other countries and probably won't: The UK is full of boomers with multiple properties 'as investments' that still cannot accept that the theory of "Your money is safe in bricks and mortar" might actually have been completely a load of b***cks.

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ell me, oh 20/30 somethings, what pension provisions are you preparing? As believe me, you are in exactly the same boat........... and yes, those lucky enough to have a BTL to supplement the pension pot ransacking will be the ONLY ones with a back up plan, as at least rents will map maket values. My advice to the up and coming generations, BTL is the ONLY way to guarantee an income, as put into ANY pension provision (even with employers contributions) will get ransacked on a regular basis. You will be in no different position.

Property is a perfectly reasonable component of a diversified pension strategy which ideally might consist of:

- Zero debt

- Zero looming expenses

- Cash

- Equities

- Commodity exposure

- Property

- Global diversification

Anyone who only follows one of the components is taking huge risks. Many people are overweighted in equities due to the tax breaks - but the tax breaks (are....or were) simply a bribe to get people to accept limitations on what they can do with their money. Get 40% off....have to buy a crappy annuity, it's OK as one part of the strategy. BTL might also be fine, assuming you're not plunged into debt to do it.

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Property is a perfectly reasonable component of a diversified pension strategy which ideally might consist of:

- Zero debt

- Zero looming expenses

- Cash

- Equities

- Commodity exposure

- Property

- Global diversification

Anyone who only follows one of the components is taking huge risks. Many people are overweighted in equities due to the tax breaks - but the tax breaks (are....or were) simply a bribe to get people to accept limitations on what they can do with their money. Get 40% off....have to buy a crappy annuity, it's OK as one part of the strategy. BTL might also be fine, assuming you're not plunged into debt to do it.

Problem is you assume people can afford to invest in multiple things, how on earth can most people afford to invest in one let alone 2 or 3 of those things?. All of my savings are from running a side business and uber skimping on everything, I usually had very little left from my salary each month.

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What has happened? Pensions have been robbed by 70%. Thats 70% of actual £'s, earned every week, put away in pension plans. This retirement generation has been the first generation who did infact look to support privately their retirement. Only to get mugged.

Ho do you work that one out?

A £200k pension fund will currently buy you approx £12k per annum income, and dont forget that gets taxed as well. Put the 70% back on that theyve wiped off the pots and you may start to understand just how much pensioners and those prudent to save have been ripped off. It is a national outrage, but clearly one that really doesnt interest you.

So that's 1k/month from the private pension plus £600/month state pension. Assuming no mortgage and only one car, that's a perfectly reasonable income. Actually slightly more than my household after childcare and mortgage.

Tell me, oh 20/30 somethings, what pension provisions are you preparing? As believe me, you are in exactly the same boat........... and yes, those lucky enough to have a BTL to supplement the pension pot ransacking will be the ONLY ones with a back up plan, as at least rents will map maket values. My advice to the up and coming generations, BTL is the ONLY way to guarantee an income, as put into ANY pension provision (even with employers contributions) will get ransacked on a regular basis. You will be in no different position.

So you are saying that putting cash into BTL and leveraging up massively is the way to go?

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Pensions have been robbed by 70%.

Not all of them. My defined benefits are modest (about 1.5x minimum wage, inflation protected) but the fund is in surplus (yes, really!) and backed by a global insurer.

The scheme has excluded new joiners from defined benefits for about 8 years now to ensure existing promises can be kept.

A wall of impoverished, indebted pensioners is good news for people who have gone without to secure a reliable pension and to be debt free in old age. Less competition for old person services.

There is a danger of the govt. taxing the prudent to bail out the feckless. However, they have to know about, and find, the wealth to do this ;)

Its an ill wind and all that.

I do feel sorry for those badly advised, but this thread is about people who are in denial and/or deluded about property.

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15545782.jpg

Love the banner story there, "can love survive when a woman earns MORE than a man?"

Gadzooks Percival, the very thought of a woman earning more than a man is against the natural order of things, I remonstrated as such with Dr Cartwright-Smythe at the Garrick last tuesday to general agreement.

Shows what a bunch of 1950's throwbacks Daily Mail readers are (or 1930's for the really foul ones)

Edited by noodle doodle
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It clearly has completely passed you by the pension crisis going on. (Obviously too busy watching HPC to see when you 20 somethings can buy your mansion), but anyone with a couple of braincells can work out exactly what has happened. The current pre-retirement and retirement generation have indeed paid into pension plans all their working lives. They were instructed to do so by consecutive governments due to the risk of state shortfall that they DIDNT wish to pass onto future generations. What has happened? Pensions have been robbed by 70%. Thats 70% of actual £'s, earned every week, put away in pension plans. This retirement generation has been the first generation who did infact look to support privately their retirement. Only to get mugged.

A £200k pension fund will currently buy you approx £12k per annum income, and dont forget that gets taxed as well. Put the 70% back on that theyve wiped off the pots and you may start to understand just how much pensioners and those prudent to save have been ripped off. It is a national outrage, but clearly one that really doesnt interest you.

Tell me, oh 20/30 somethings, what pension provisions are you preparing? As believe me, you are in exactly the same boat........... and yes, those lucky enough to have a BTL to supplement the pension pot ransacking will be the ONLY ones with a back up plan, as at least rents will map maket values. My advice to the up and coming generations, BTL is the ONLY way to guarantee an income, as put into ANY pension provision (even with employers contributions) will get ransacked on a regular basis. You will be in no different position.

Yet again, a BTL investor pops up and demonstrates that they do not have a clue what they are talking about, they cannot do basic maths and that as such the whole basis of their decision to ‘invest’ in BTL was flawed.

I cannot be bothered to explain it in detail and you would probably not understand.

But, suffice to say, 70% of the pension has not been ‘taken’. It is just that stock market growth is less than it used to be in the run up to the year 2000 (hence the fund is smaller) and correspondingly, annuity rates are lower.

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"can love survive when a woman earns MORE than a man?"

By the powers! Every man knows that a woman will suffer the vapours and swoon continuously should she learn that she hath a bigger purse than her husband and master.

See yonder man plucking at his clothes and hair in anguish at the very thought. Call the pastor! Tis' an offence before the eyes of God.

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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