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I mean the idea of a very flash building right in the heart of the historic central district is great, as are the generally flash decor, from stone/marble atrium and stone worktops and fancy fittings in idividual flats. But, who are they trying to kid with 300 sq ft studios for £179k- even the larger '2 bedroom' flats are barely 700 sq ft - with asking prices in excess of £300k for the ones on the upper floors.

The other thing that concerns me with these new small flats is the general poor design, and the fact that the rooms don't have sharp corners like in more conventional houses; there corners may go in, in order to accomodate girders and stuff. This can make installing storage cupboards, and curtains/blinds nearly impossible. This is a problem, but is not critical, in my place; but looking around at other new developments (e.g. the one at Leopold Square) you're going to have real problems if you wanted to buy wardrobes and stuff, and you'd almost certainly have to pay to have them custom designed and built, otherwise they wouldn't be able to go flat against the walls, etc.

I don't believe they have studio's.....and also, as I have a detailed knowledge of apartment design, the City Loft apartments are with out doubt the best designed apartments on the market. It is just about the only thing they got right.......prices are unbelivable though.

BB ;)

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Numbers show current figure and (previous weeks)

For Sale 2 beds under 100k

S1 - 1 (1, 2, 2, 2)

S3 - 6 (8, 8, 7, 7)

S8 - 34 (31, 27, 23, 22)

S10 - 1 (1, 0, 0, 0)

S12 - 13 (12, 14, 15, N/A)

S20 - 28 (29, 29, 27, 28)

To Rent 2 beds 400-600pcm

S1 - 18 (22, 21, 22, 17)

S3 - 52 (54, 43, 33, 34)

S8 - 32 (38, 35, 37, 38)

S10 - 35 (33, 24, 22, 26)

S12 - 15 (16, 17, 18, N/A)

S20 - 18 (19, 21, 22, 21)

One more week of rising 'For Sales' in S8 and we have a statistically significant event, which would be nice, as nothing else seems to be happening :P .

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While shopping earlier in the week I took a look in several EA's I used when looking for a house back in September. The windows seem to be unchanged since September its very weird with just about all of the houses I viewed still on the market but with none of the sellers dropping their prices so its just deadlock for now. What was interesting though was that two houses I had been interested in but which appeared to sell very quickly (in one case within a day of going on sale so I didn't even view them) are back on the market so presumably the sale fell through for whatever reason.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Bart

Can't help noticing you raised City Lofts at St Pauls - I have heard a rumour that not all is well at the parent company with the vast majority of their projects now having problems due to funding issues. Apartment prices are inflated so investors think they are getting a deal and they sold 180 up to Sept 07 and pretty much a small number since. Credit crunch?

Internal finishes look good though. ;)

BB

Interesting. I wasn't aware of any funding problems before now. Kind of ties in with why I mentioned City Lofts in the first place, the so-called "skyscraper curse".

Given the scale of the project, plus the events of the last 6 months in the worldwide financial markets, it seems to be shaping up nicely to be Sheffield's home grown contribution to the skyscraper curse theory.

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Dear Russell and Bart;

Here is some more information for you on the Sothall area.

The attached file shows the graphs oh Terrace properties and flats in the Sothall area.

I did not botther with the stats for both as there are not realy enough data points for any accuracy.

I also got hold of the data from Property snake. This can be manipulated for a particular post code.

To cut a long story short I looked at 2 bedroom propertiess and length of time on the market. The data also allows you to get an impression of the average and modal reduction accross all property listed.

As someone else pointed out there is a world of difference between asking price and selling price even if a property has been on the market for a long time.

If you wish I can post the raw data for you to do your own analysis.

Results1.pdf

Results1.pdf

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Nice work Bonner, will have to try and work out now what price the valley will occur at in S20 if we're at the peak. Maybe 75k for a 2 bed terrace and 55k for a flat? Wonder how those guys that are listed on Property Snake are doing, 200 days average is quite a bit isn't it?

Just installed the Firefox browser and Property Bee addin on Friday, I've clicked through everything in Sheffield on Rightmove, once on Friday and once today, already seen about 10 price drops, average around 5k though mostly just the froth on a place that was aspirationally priced, that is on about 3300 houses though! Well worth installing, fun to see the little things the EAs change on a day to day basis. Will be very useful in a few months time when I've built up a good history, works for rentals as well, so will single out the places where the rent will be more negotiable ;)

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Numbers show current figure and (previous weeks)

For Sale 2 beds under 100k

S1 - 1 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2)

S3 - 6 (6, 8, 8, 7, 7)

S8 - 37 (34, 31, 27, 23, 22)

S10 - 1 (1, 1, 0, 0, 0)

S12 - 13 (13, 12, 14, 15, N/A)

S20 - 28 (28, 29, 29, 27, 28)

To Rent 2 beds 400-600pcm

S1 - 20 (18, 22, 21, 22, 17)

S3 - 48 (52, 54, 43, 33, 34)

S8 - 29 (32, 38, 35, 37, 38)

S10 - 33 (35, 33, 24, 22, 26)

S12 - 13 (15, 16, 17, 18, N/A)

S20 - 20 (18, 19, 21, 22, 21)

Well, we reached a statistically significant event on my index with 6 weeks of rising 'for sales' in S8. Not looking so great to be a homeowner there, particularly in the Batemoor and Jordanthorpe estates where I think private ownerships are probably still in a minority. Will the local housing associations look to pick up some of their former properties? Even though social housing makes up over 30% of Sheffield households, I'm sure we still have a sizeable waiting list.

Nothing else really happening, lots of choice in rentals, but stock levels bubbling along fairly constantly. Thought I had seen the first substantial reduction using Property Bee on a place for sale from 97,950 to 79,950, but maybe they were just correcting a typo..?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-160...15&tr_t=buy

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Update on the house next door.

Now on the market again. Different agent (Halifax) and the price dropped to £160000. Still too much for a small detached, leashold even on a goodish plot. However I don't thiink they would get planning to increase the size. Probably needs the usual upgrades to houses in the Sothall estate, see earlier.

Bottom of the market you ask?

Average price for a detached in 2007 £180,000 approx including 4 and 3 bedroom houses. I predict a 40% reduction

gives around £110,000 now. This is considerably more than what people have predicted so far, but similar to what happened before in the last HPC. I did the prediction and the maths some time ago. The details are in the file attached.

The details on the first page are now out of date, but you can see my thinking in 2005. I woule alter it to the above senario now.

0501004.pdf

0501004.pdf

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Bart of Darkness

When I was actually bothering to look at properties in Sheffield (circa 2006), the average price for a 2 bed flat was around £125,000, at least in the S2, S12, S20 type of area.

This 2 bed, second floor flat in S2 is now on at £82,000. Almost reasonable compared to previous pricing.

As a comparison, brand new 2 bed flats at Willows Edge off Gleadless Road (old Asheleigh School Upper School area) vary from £133k to £123k.

The flats at New School Road, Mosborough used to be no cheaper than £125k on Rightmove. I now see that at least one is for sale at £119,950. It's possible that the original purchaser may have received discounts from the builder, otherwise this does represent a loss based on the original new price, which, IIRC, was around £125k.

It's kind of quietly encouraging.

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Dear Bart;

I would start looking again towards the end of the year. £85,000 is still way too much for S20, S2, S12 Somewhere between £35,000 and £50,000 by the end of the year / begining of next. i.e., 40% in real terms, with a bit of luck.

Give a chance for the financial shocks to work through the system.

i.e., The bill for the sub prime crisis looks as though it will top $200 Billion dollars.

Bear Stearns is no more now look for lehmann Brothers having a few problems.

The banks in Europe and the Uk are still not imune to the problem either directly via CDO's or the buying of Hedge funds / Insurance backed instruments etc.

UBS, Soc Gen all have exposure. Put a search in on Google for "Sub Prime" and a date 2008 and see the bugs! Just like turning a stone over :lol:

Dont believe the strength of the Euro either. They have been reporting CPI at 3.3%. Yeh right :huh:

Fuel costs up Minimum of 9%, Food costs up 7.5% and wage claimes in Germany running at an average of just under 10%. Somethings gota give.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Dear Bart;

I would start looking again towards the end of the year. £85,000 is still way too much for S20, S2, S12 Somewhere between £35,000 and £50,000 by the end of the year / begining of next. i.e., 40% in real terms, with a bit of luck.

No worries bonner, I don't think I'll be moving anywhere until at least 2010/2011. The flats prices were interesting to me as they were the only ones I could really remember from the last time I used to look at house prices on a regular basis (I can definitely remember looking at the New School Road flats when they were first on the market). The price always seemed to average out at around £125k. Seeing a 2 bed for £82k just seemed unreal at first.

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Dear All;

Like little children who ask 'Are we there yet?'. Is there any data to back up the HPC in the Sothall area.

Update on Sothall

The price reductions for 3 Bed properties as reported on Property snake as of 14th to 20th March 2008.

Original:

Ave Percent reduction Ave Days on Market

4% 164

14th to 20th March

5% 244

The number of properties are low for this measure .So treat the following with caution.

The probability that they are from the same population is vanishingly small.

So the conclusion is that the percentage drop, and the number of days on the market have both increased when considering the average for 3 bed properties.

I know that this is obvious from inspection, but is it statistically significant?

The Original is from my last post on Sothall prices from Property Snake.

I have just had the Derbyshire 'Leader' delivered from the property advertised there seem to be quite a few reduced as well, but I can't remember the original prices so don't know how much etc.

The figures are interesting above, I hope they now show that the HPC is happening, and happening in Sothall.

Even though there are still some houses selling!

Edited by bonner
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Not sure whether to post this to the Sheffield or Rotherham threads, but as it's flats in S25 (albeit well on the way to Worksop) I'll post here.

These have just been built out in the sticks near to sheffield on the A57 in Anston - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-172...=1&tr_t=buy ; that's 12 flats marketed at the top of the market, going for 4 bed house prices circa 2004. The place seems empty since they went up for sale 4 or so months ago. They're asking a fixed price of 165k - it'll be interesting to see what they eventually get for them. I suspect with all that's gone down since Dec 2007 the 'fixed price' condition will be quietly dropped.

any estimates on their true worth? I'll guestimate for 90 - 100k per flat.

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newp: If you do a rightmove search for the south anston area, you can see other flats in the same building available for ~150.

I drove past these a couple of times and always had a chuckle about them. South Anston is quite a nice village but these flats aren't in the nice part, are next to a petrol station and overlooking a busy road like you said. Considering you can get a flat in Sheffield city center for around 150, they seem massively over priced and your estimate of about 90 would seem about right. However the developers have laminated the floors, painted the walls white and put a more stylish than average kitchen in, so no doubt that extra 60k gets you a lot for your money... :huh:

I'm also looking around the sheffield area and the biggest drop I've seen so far is this one:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-200...=4&tr_t=buy

28th Mar 2008

* Price changed: from 'Offers in Region of £375,000' to 'Offers in Region of £330,000'

18th Mar 2008

* Initial entry found.

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Went in to Blundells on Eccy Road today for a snoop around.

Lady said nothing is selling at the window prices. She invited me to 'make an offer' and it was a 'great time to buy'. I couldn't help but smile inside.

Needless to say 'i made my excuses and left'.

The market is in denial at the moment. Its only a matter of time before we get a sudden 10% move down.

When advertised prices are not shifting, then prices will have to move down to a level that people are prepared to buy, thats the law of markets.

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I'm just browsing through Rightmove in S8 and I must have gone through about 10 pages, with at least one price change reduction (propertybee notified) on every page! It's quite refreshing to see so many drops.

Edit: Just counted them, it was 10 price drops in 8 pages, with all the price drops being discovered today iirc.

Edited by Sof
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Guest Bart of Darkness
Went in to Blundells on Eccy Road today for a snoop around.

Lady said nothing is selling at the window prices. She invited me to 'make an offer'

Was she cute? ;)

I often have cause to pass through Gleadless Townend (S12) and have known the shopping area for... well, decades really (back in the days when we had 2p bus fares and the main road was a single carriageway, but I digress).

Anyway, for most of that time there were 2 EA branches there, a Heybrooks and a Blundells. Last year a Swift branch appeared, opposite the post office (with a Swift loans office next door). Now at the time I wondered whether they were getting in on the boom a bit too late. But now I see that the former carpet shop near the petrol station has become a Bairstow Eve estate agents.

So in a relatively small area, there are 4 estate agencies, an area where, even at the height of the boom, there were only 2. Unless I'm really wide off the mark, I wouldn't expect the 2 newcomers to survive for more than a couple of years.

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Was she cute? ;)

I often have cause to pass through Gleadless Townend (S12) and have known the shopping area for... well, decades really (back in the days when we had 2p bus fares and the main road was a single carriageway, but I digress).

Anyway, for most of that time there were 2 EA branches there, a Heybrooks and a Blundells. Last year a Swift branch appeared, opposite the post office (with a Swift loans office next door). Now at the time I wondered whether they were getting in on the boom a bit too late. But now I see that the former carpet shop near the petrol station has become a Bairstow Eve estate agents.

So in a relatively small area, there are 4 estate agencies, an area where, even at the height of the boom, there were only 2. Unless I'm really wide off the mark, I wouldn't expect the 2 newcomers to survive for more than a couple of years.

I know Gleadless Townend quite well also. The Swift EA wasn't that much use a few months ago since many of the houses it had in the For Sale window are also in the Sold window with "sold" stamped across them so I don't think they have many properties for sale. The new Bairstow Eve shop has many properties we were looking at in September when they were being sold by other EA's. I get the feeling the other EA's had told them to drop their prices so they moved over to the new EA's on the block to try their luck with them.

Edited by msp430
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newp: If you do a rightmove search for the south anston area, you can see other flats in the same building available for ~150.

I drove past these a couple of times and always had a chuckle about them. South Anston is quite a nice village but these flats aren't in the nice part, are next to a petrol station and overlooking a busy road like you said.

I drove past them again today, and a sign has appeared saying For Sale/To Let, at £550pm!

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Estate Agent William H Brown (part of the Sequence group) are starting to borrow dodgy schemes from the developers.

1000 pound cashback on completion

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-178...74&tr_t=buy

5% deposit paid

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-180...33&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-155...81&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-186...17&tr_t=buy

Stamp Duty paid

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-198...51&tr_t=buy

Bloor & Co are in on it as well with Stamp Duty paid

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-190...20&tr_t=buy

Winkworth Chapeltown are doing similar stuff with legal fees paid, 2000 pounds cashback or 5% vendor gifted deposit no links though as the offers are only shown in the brief descriptions section that appears on the rightmove search page.

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Not sure whether to post this to the Sheffield or Rotherham threads, but as it's flats in S25 (albeit well on the way to Worksop) I'll post here.

These have just been built out in the sticks near to sheffield on the A57 in Anston - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-172...=1&tr_t=buy ; that's 12 flats marketed at the top of the market, going for 4 bed house prices circa 2004. The place seems empty since they went up for sale 4 or so months ago. They're asking a fixed price of 165k - it'll be interesting to see what they eventually get for them. I suspect with all that's gone down since Dec 2007 the 'fixed price' condition will be quietly dropped.

any estimates on their true worth? I'll guestimate for 90 - 100k per flat.

Now the above flats are on offer to rent at £550pcm.

To out their price in further perspective, there are 3 bed houses for sale in nearby Kiveton at 150k(ish).

http://www.smartnewhomes.com/property/Deta..._Yorkshire.aspx

Personally, I think 150k is too much for a glorified terrace, but I would not like to be a developer holding a large stock of new builds right now!

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Guest Bart of Darkness
I often have cause to pass through Gleadless Townend (S12) and have known the shopping area for... well, decades really (back in the days when we had 2p bus fares and the main road was a single carriageway, but I digress).

Anyway, for most of that time there were 2 EA branches there, a Heybrooks and a Blundells. Last year a Swift branch appeared, opposite the post office (with a Swift loans office next door). Now at the time I wondered whether they were getting in on the boom a bit too late. But now I see that the former carpet shop near the petrol station has become a Bairstow Eve estate agents.

So in a relatively small area, there are 4 estate agencies, an area where, even at the height of the boom, there were only 2. Unless I'm really wide off the mark, I wouldn't expect the 2 newcomers to survive for more than a couple of years.

Have Swift thrown in the towel already. I passed through Gleadless Townend on the bus today and it looked as if all the little cards in their window were blank.

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