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Dear all;

Sothall, Yes its a nice place to live.

A few negatives though.

Dog do dah on the pavements and footpaths.

Idiot parking when schools are in or out.

Secondary schools are OK but not the best. Probably why the house prices are low coupled with the variable build quality. The mixed nature of some of the tenure. Some Leasehold, be careful when buying.

Primary schoools are good though.

From what I remember the original developer was Tarmac with a couple of smaller subsidiaries. One called Bellway. If you get the chance one of the older type properties with real floor boards are the type to go for. However, (isn't there always one of these) The small bore central heating system is interesting to say the least. Breath on the pipes and you get a leak! As the houses were built in the eighties some of the old bathroom suites will be in full technicolour if they havn't been changed. Also worth while seeing if the property has been insulated and the Barge bords and sofits replaced. There are even one or two houses on the estate that have the original windows.

As I wrote on the site somewhere else. The 'Mock Tudor-beathan' is expensive and built out of rendered block with a bit of black painted wood slapped on top. Must pay extra for the black paint??? :huh:

I dont know about the underpriced bit, from the local government site. I think that the location and the two factors about mitigated against a massive price hike. Even so the have more than doubled in price in the last four years or so.

All things said I like the erea and most of the people in the area, A good area and if you are off the main drags quiet. Except for the lawn mowers in summer :rolleyes:

Tag me if you want some of the stories about the original build.

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I lived in S10 (Halfway) which is now S20, but moved away 22 years ago. In-laws still live in S20 (Waterthorpe). The area is quite pleasant and is well served by Crystal Peaks and Drakehouse for shopping. Quality of house build is poor though, In -laws live in a Hassall House (well named), quality of build was rock-bottom, no switch sockets, panel flooring which squeaks like a thousand rusty mice and the security locks were abysmal-the front door had a lock like a privacy lock fitted on a bathroom door! Not a bad area though, south of the city which is on the tram to city centre and beyond, and cheap to use! Also easy access to M1 N and S and close to neighbouring towns like Chesterfield, Rotherham and Derbyshire Dales.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
coupled with the variable build quality...

If you get the chance one of the older type properties with real floor boards are the type to go for. However, (isn't there always one of these) The small bore central heating system is interesting to say the least. Breath on the pipes and you get a leak! As the houses were built in the eighties some of the old bathroom suites will be in full technicolour if they havn't been changed. Also worth while seeing if the property has been insulated and the Barge bords and sofits replaced. There are even one or two houses on the estate that have the original windows.

Quality of house build is poor though, In -laws live in a Hassall House (well named), quality of build was rock-bottom, no switch sockets, panel flooring which squeaks like a thousand rusty mice and the security locks were abysmal-the front door had a lock like a privacy lock fitted on a bathroom door!

Some good points there about build quality. As I recall a lot of the houses were built during the late 80s, at a time when the last housing boom was underway, so a lot of the problems associated with modern new-builds would probably crop up here.

A mate of mine has a house in Mosborough which was built on a bit of spare land (not by one of the big builders) and it took him 5 years before he'd renovated it to his satisfaction (originally he bought it at a decent price from his parents).

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SNIP

Secondary schools are OK but not the best. Probably why the house prices are low coupled with the variable build quality. The mixed nature of some of the tenure. Some Leasehold, be careful when buying.

SNIP

Which is the secondary school? You have to choose well in Sheffield...

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Dear Aussieboy;

Which is the secondary school? You have to choose well in Sheffield...

True very true. The local catchment school is 'Westfield' a lot of parents also use 'Aston'. The DfES site has the reports and tables for both of the schools.

Now the old 'Westfield' was the old 'Eckington Gram' converted into a comp and sited in 'Westfied' Mosborough. The old site by the way was opposite Morrisons.

Westfield was Ok for quite a while, and started failing as a lot of secondaries in the South and Easten part of the city. The better schools are in the West and South west of the city. The price of houses in the good school catchment areas are high :o There is quite a correlation between house prices and the quality of schools in Sheffield.

Westfield is now sited in a new build between the Sothall estate and the Tram lines. Don't know much about the Headteacher or the team of senior staff. I have both potential parent and professional opinions about the school though which I have not had chance to think through. Contributions to my thinking are most welcome.

Anyway back to house prices. I am working on a set of Figures for the Sothall area an will post these as soon as I am happy with the Stats etc.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Anyway back to house prices. I am working on a set of Figures for the Sothall area an will post these as soon as I am happy with the Stats etc.

I'll look forward to reading that.

On a Sheffield related note, what does everyone think of the prospects for the "City Lofts" development now gradually taking form in the city centre? Given the delays in its construction (on-off-on-off) I think that it's timing itself perfectly to be a local example of the "skyscraper curse".

Although I currently live in a flat, it's a small scale kind of building, only 3 floors. I wouldn't fancy living in something as tall as City Lofts, in fact I wouldn't fancy living in the city centre full stop.

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I don't really know what to say about City Lofts. I'm really amazed that it ever got to the construction stage.

I mean the idea of a very flash building right in the heart of the historic central district is great, as are the generally flash decor, from stone/marble atrium and stone worktops and fancy fittings in idividual flats. But, who are they trying to kid with 300 sq ft studios for £179k- even the larger '2 bedroom' flats are barely 700 sq ft - with asking prices in excess of £300k for the ones on the upper floors.

To be fair, I think it would be pretty cool to live there - but then I'm young and single, and work close to the city centre. It would, however, be quite unsuitable if I had or wanted a family. I quite like my place elsewhere in the city centre - but it's a lot bigger (at about 900 sqft) and a lot cheaper.

If the asking prices weren't stratospheric, and the flats were a decent - perhaps 2x the size, then I think they'd have a winner. But there's no way I, nor anyone I know, would consider paying the asking price for such shoeboxes, no matter how plush the surroundings. Luxurious fittings are one thing, and are nice to have; but they serve little purpose if the home they are decorating is only barely habitable because it is so cramped.

The other thing that concerns me with these new small flats is the general poor design, and the fact that the rooms don't have sharp corners like in more conventional houses; there corners may go in, in order to accomodate girders and stuff. This can make installing storage cupboards, and curtains/blinds nearly impossible. This is a problem, but is not critical, in my place; but looking around at other new developments (e.g. the one at Leopold Square) you're going to have real problems if you wanted to buy wardrobes and stuff, and you'd almost certainly have to pay to have them custom designed and built, otherwise they wouldn't be able to go flat against the walls, etc.

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I suspect it is also the poor quality of the local comp school that keeps prices low in S12. On the whole the area is decent with pretty low crime , OK local shops etc etc. But the default senior school for children in the area is the Springs Academy known locally as the "Slasher Academy" means a lot of families want to avoid it. You can still pick up a 2 bed semi (that needs work) for the £100K mark with nice 3 bed semis that have everything done for £140K ish and finally detached from £160K upwards. That said the new build 2 bed flats on Gleadless Road are up for £120K (but without many takers) and one of the new build detached houses on Gleadless Common was on sale at £250K at one point before it seems being repossessed and then eventually selling for £165K (still a bit high for my liking).

As I mentioned in a previous post the market in S12 seems stagnant at the moment with no buyers around but sellers still not wanting to drop their prices. Eventually something will have to happen.

As for City Lofts god knows who would ever be daft enough to buy one at those prices. I have visions of them all being bought up by housing associations in 10 years time and the special atmosphere of the Park Hill flats being recreated :rolleyes:

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On a Sheffield related note, what does everyone think of the prospects for the "City Lofts" development now gradually taking form in the city centre? Given the delays in its construction (on-off-on-off) I think that it's timing itself perfectly to be a local example of the "skyscraper curse".

Well here's one of the many press releases on the development, this one on the Yorkshire Forward website which is the government body that provides funding support from the EU for the Yorkshire region.

http://www.yorkshireforward.com/www/view.a...p;parent_id=263

High-quality city dwelling in Sheffield is 'in demand'

18/12/2007

High-quality accommodation in Sheffield city centre is in "demand" according to new reports.

Global property consultancy Knight Frank has said that the steel city looks set to power through fears of a credit crunch in the UK, due to its relative shortfall in supply of city living units compared to other key city centres.

Tearle Phelan, head of residential development at Knight Frank, said: "City Lofts' St Pauls in the 'Heart of the City' development has not only provided Sheffield with its first iconic scheme but it has demonstrated the strength of demand for a premium product within Sheffield's city living market."

A two-bedroom apartment at the city centre development starts at between £225,000 and £400,000, compared with a standard specification two-bedroom apartment which on average sells for between £165,000 and £185,000.

Tearle added: "Regeneration is taking place on a large scale in Sheffield. The 'Heart of the City' programme will provide 301,000 square feet of commercial space, 316 residential units and a £200 million new public realm."

Sheffield city centre's population of 20 to 34-year-olds is more than double the UK's national average and this factor coupled with its excellent transport links are key factors in the growing demand for city centre living.

Knight Frank estimates that new homes market across the main northern cities will see static growth in 2008 while family housing in the region will perform more strongly, achieving a four to five per cent annual growth.

Problem is that my demand for this high-quality housing in the city centre drops significantly when you mention the price. I like the sound of a public realm though :blink: sounds medieval.

There's not many for sale off-plan at the moment, did they sell a load, or do they just drip feed the market to create the feeling of strong demand?

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Problem is that my demand for this high-quality housing in the city centre drops significantly when you mention the price. I like the sound of a public realm though :blink: sounds medieval.

There's not many for sale off-plan at the moment, did they sell a load, or do they just drip feed the market to create the feeling of strong demand?

It does look and sound great. I must confess I was dead excited when I saw the brochures and saw the advertising. But, it was a) the price, and B) the tiny size that put me off completely.

I did take a look at the sales suite a few weeks after the released the first lot to market - and the majority of the apartments 'released' had been sold or 'reserved', including the £450k 750 sqft pentouse. From what I saw they were doing quite a roaring trade - with the sales room full of people, and queues to talk to the reps.

I haven't been back more recently. I did check the website and there aren't that many available - whether that's because they've been reserved or sold, I don't know.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
I don't really know what to say about City Lofts. I'm really amazed that it ever got to the construction stage.

I've followed the development in a casual kind of way over the past couple of years and it always seem to be on, then off, then back on again.

To be fair, I think it would be pretty cool to live there - but then I'm young and single, and work close to the city centre. It would, however, be quite unsuitable if I had or wanted a family.

Agree 100%. Great in your 20s. Even into early 30s, but by that time you'd be wanting something a lot bigger if you plan to have a family. Whether it would be still be worth what someone would have paid for it when they were say, 25, by the time they wanted to move on at say 30, is the thorny question.

Problem is that my demand for this high-quality housing in the city centre drops significantly when you mention the price.

:lol:

There's not many for sale off-plan at the moment, did they sell a load, or do they just drip feed the market to create the feeling of strong demand?

I get the feeling that they're being released in phases.

It does look and sound great. I must confess I was dead excited when I saw the brochures and saw the advertising. But, it was a) the price, and B) the tiny size that put me off completely.

I did take a look at the sales suite a few weeks after the released the first lot to market - and the majority of the apartments 'released' had been sold or 'reserved', including the £450k 750 sqft pentouse. From what I saw they were doing quite a roaring trade - with the sales room full of people, and queues to talk to the reps.

I would guess that the penthouse suite would be a good draw for any affluent players from the Blades or the Owls (do they pay those kind of wages though?).

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Here are te results of the sothall area.

The main graph shows the prices from 2006 to the end of 2007. It appears that its fairly flat with a lot of variation.

The histogram shows the frequency of the price bands. Illustrates that the whole is non normal. i.e., Skewed

with the mode at around £177,000.

Descriptive Statistics Detached Houses

Mean 179466.5476

Standard Error 4373.260511

Mode 176475

Median 210000

Standard Deviation 40081.59465

Kurtosis 5.690680476

Skewness 0.993604552

Range 286500

Minimum 73500

Maximum 360000

Count 84

Confidence Level(95.0%) 8698.239101

Guide price for detached houses are difficult to examine but as a guess they have been fairly flat for a year. The figures don't show the different types of detached houses either. But from examining the Land registry records and knowing the area:-

Type a four or more betroom detached £190000 plus

b larger three bedroom detached £170000 to £190000

c Smaller three bedroom detached £15000 to £170000

Semi's to follow

Det.rtf

Det.rtf

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Well I had planned to track movements on Property Snake weekly, but updating the figures tonight I noticed that it's not picking up the postcodes correctly, so I'll agree with the many other posts on the site that it's fun for anecdotals, but pretty useless for stats.

I've decided to keep tracking the number of 2 beds for sale on rightmove.co.uk for under 100k, mainly because that's what I'll probably end up buying whenever I call the bottom and the number of 2 beds for rent between 400 and 600pcm, as that's where I'll be living until then.

The numbers show current figure and (previous week)

For Sale 2 beds under 100k

S1 - 2 (2)

S3 - 7 (7)

S8 - 23 (22)

S10 - 0 (0)

S12 - 15 (N/A)

S20 - 27 (28)

To Rent 2 beds 400-600pcm

S1 - 22 (17)

S3 - 33 (34)

S8 - 37 (38)

S10 - 22 (26)

S12 - 18 (N/A)

S20 - 22 (21)

Enjoyed the data from bonner on Sothall, been a while since I've had to remember what Kurtosis indicates (thanks Google), looking forward to the info for semis.

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Dear All;

Here is the results of the data for Semi's in the Southall area.

Descriptive Statistics Semi

Mean 129698.9

Standard Error 3272.116

Median 160000

Mode 140000

Standard Deviation 28337.35

Sample Variance 8.03E+08

Kurtosis 3.814364

Skewness -0.46735

Sum 9727420

Count 75

Largest(1) 203000

Smallest(1) 67500

Confidence Level(95.0%) 6519.832

The graph for the data is in the attached file:-

These show that the market for Semi's in the area has not been as flat as for detached houses.

The mean price is £130,000 with a variability of around £28,000.

Again there are some differentces in the type of Semis Available.

As an extra the house next to us has just had its sign removed. It was in the market for £175,000 dropped to £165,000

its leashold still too highly priced. If they had dropped it to £155,000 they would have sold it. However now they have no chance.

I have the data for terraced and flats. I wil try and get around to these if there is demand.

As a post script I did some work on the bubble in prices by the way. It was some time ago, but I thought that prices would drop sometime between mid 2005 and mid 2008. Shows that the stats can tell you all sorts of things.

Semi.pdf

Semi.pdf

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Guest Bart of Darkness
These show that the market for Semi's in the area has not been as flat as for detached houses.

I'm guessing here but I would suppose that the market for semi's has more "life" in it because they're more in the kind of price range that people can afford?

As an extra the house next to us has just had its sign removed. It was in the market for £175,000 dropped to £165,000

its leashold still too highly priced. If they had dropped it to £155,000 they would have sold it. However now they have no chance.

Kite flying?

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When I got into work this morning I discovered a leaflet had appeared on just about every notice board in the building. This leaflet lists a web address ..

http://one.xthost.info/flat4sale/

which isn't a website just a reproduction of the leaflet. It looks like someone who has watched one to many amateur property dealer shows on Channel 4 is trying unload his off plan flat in St Pauls to a bigger mug already.

I just can't believe anyone would buy a one bedroom flat on the third floor (so loads of traffic noise and drunks) for £153K when that would buy you a detached house in some fairly reasonable parts of the city :o

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Guest Bart of Darkness
Do you think that the e-mail address is meant to be [email protected]? :lol:

Do you think he's using a fastmail address because he wants a quick sale. ;)

“There is no doubt there can be no finer location, no finer address, in the centre of Sheffield.â€

Come on! I know Sheffield isn't perfect but surely we can offer something better than this.

St Paul's Parade is preferable IMO. A better view than a busy dual carriageway anyway.

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Numbers show current figure and (previous weeks)

For Sale 2 beds under 100k

S1 - 2 (2, 2)

S3 - 8 (7, 7)

S8 - 27 (23, 22)

S10 - 0 (0, 0)

S12 - 14 (15, N/A)

S20 - 29 (27, 28)

To Rent 2 beds 400-600pcm

S1 - 21 (22, 17)

S3 - 43 (33, 34)

S8 - 35 (37, 38)

S10 - 24 (22, 26)

S12 - 17 (18, N/A)

S20 - 21 (22, 21)

Not much to note, although I did spot a flat with the first month rent free, seen that kind of deal on commercial rentals, but not residential.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-180...4&tr_t=rent

PS - Anyone in Darnall area, the refurbed Davy office building rebranded as 722 on Prince of Wales road that has sat empty for a couple of years (after Norwich Union pulled out of using it as a call centre) is about to get a new load of tenants. If you have a sandwich van you might want to start making it a stop on your route over the next few months.

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Dear Russell;

The Davy building is huge. I used to work there in the late 70's.

The developer will have to spend a lot to turn it into smaller units.

Always reminds me when Sheffield had proper jobs. Not just doing each others hair or talking C**P on the phone to flusstomers. :o

Which reminds me anyone got a handle on the flats that are going up on "West Street" Sothall. I wonder what inflated price they are trying to sell them at. Obviously aimed at the 'upwardly mobile' in the area.

I have been watching them being thrown up! Interesting building methods. About one meter of concrete and re inforcement on the ground slab to stop heave from the Quarry that used to be on the site.

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The Davy building is huge. I used to work there in the late 70's.

The developer will have to spend a lot to turn it into smaller units.

I was doing some contract work for a company that was considering moving there so got to look around. They've put full width floor plates across what I believe used to be the drawing office, they were available on a per floor basis with a rough capacity of 250 people per floor (22,000 sqft). The tower section at the end was also available on a per floor basis, probably 20-30 people per floor over 6 or 7 floors. If it does start to fill up (like I've heard), then we're talking nearly 1000 people!

Must be tough for the developers, they refurbished the place at least 2 years ago on a promise of a Norwich Union call centre :( but Norwich Union pulled out and it looks like they've struggled to shift the place since. They were offering some decent incentives for tenants and it was easily the cheapest price per sqft in Sheffield for a modern fit-out with raised access floors to run cables under.

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Dear Aussieboy;

True very true. The local catchment school is 'Westfield' a lot of parents also use 'Aston'. The DfES site has the reports and tables for both of the schools.

Now the old 'Westfield' was the old 'Eckington Gram' converted into a comp and sited in 'Westfied' Mosborough. The old site by the way was opposite Morrisons.

Westfield was Ok for quite a while, and started failing as a lot of secondaries in the South and Easten part of the city. The better schools are in the West and South west of the city. The price of houses in the good school catchment areas are high :o There is quite a correlation between house prices and the quality of schools in Sheffield.

Westfield is now sited in a new build between the Sothall estate and the Tram lines. Don't know much about the Headteacher or the team of senior staff. I have both potential parent and professional opinions about the school though which I have not had chance to think through. Contributions to my thinking are most welcome.

Anyway back to house prices. I am working on a set of Figures for the Sothall area an will post these as soon as I am happy with the Stats etc.

Looks like things have moved on since I were a lad. I think it was City school around there back in the day. I hear that it closed down, not to too many tears, I shouldn't have thought. My alma mater was also canned... a fate which it roundly deserved.

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Dear All;

Update on the house next door.

Now been withdrawn from the market. As said £165,000 for a small detached leashold property even if its on a courner is too expensive for the area. Probably now at least £10,000 above what it needs to be.

I also noticed that a couple of the houses on the walk to the school have now been sold. I look forward to reading the Land Registry site. I had thought that the ones that were for sale in Sothall would still be on the market for quite a while as yet.

Talking of school Aussieboy my alma mata was Carter Lodge. 'Steps back and waits for the indrawing of breath and shakes of the head' :lol:

I remember the City school as well. Used to be very flash compared. :rolleyes:

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Numbers show current figure and (previous weeks)

For Sale 2 beds under 100k

S1 - 1 (2, 2, 2)

S3 - 8 (8, 7, 7)

S8 - 31 (27, 23, 22)

S10 - 1 (0, 0, 0)

S12 - 12 (14, 15, N/A)

S20 - 29 (29, 27, 28)

To Rent 2 beds 400-600pcm

S1 - 22 (21, 22, 17)

S3 - 54 (43, 33, 34)

S8 - 38 (35, 37, 38)

S10 - 33 (24, 22, 26)

S12 - 16 (17, 18, N/A)

S20 - 19 (21, 22, 21)

Nothing major to note, a place for sale in S10 has appeared, but it's a retirement apartment. The rentals in S3 are up again, looks like they've just finished a new development on Lancaster Street.

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Bart

Can't help noticing you raised City Lofts at St Pauls - I have heard a rumour that not all is well at the parent company with the vast majority of their projects now having problems due to funding issues. Apartment prices are inflated so investors think they are getting a deal and they sold 180 up to Sept 07 and pretty much a small number since. Credit crunch?

Internal finishes look good though. ;)

BB

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