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A relative has just been told her short term employment contract will not be renewed. She is being replaced by a new graduate who is working for free. They are perfectly happy with her work, but they would prefer to pay someone nothing to do the job, apparently. It's a small company, non-professional employment, not exactly a City accountancy firm.

Where will the madness end.

Edited by dazednconfused
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A relative has just been told her short term employment contract will not be renewed. She is being replaced by a new graduate who is working for free. They are perfectly happy with her work, but they would prefer to pay someone nothing to do the job, apparently. It's a small company, non-professional employment, not exactly a City accountancy firm.

Where will the madness end.

When people grow.

Low self esteem built the boom, low self esteem will characterise the recession, tbh.

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A relative has just been told her short term employment contract will not be renewed. She is being replaced by a new graduate who is working for free. They are perfectly happy with her work, but they would prefer to pay someone nothing to do the job, apparently. It's a small company, non-professional employment, not exactly a City accountancy firm.

Where will the madness end.

When the new grad puts in a retrospective demand for the wages that (s)he is owed,

There is a fallacy that interns don't have to be paid. Usually, they do

tim

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Ahem http://www.vaga.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=667:are-unpaid-internships-illegal&catid=164:employment-a-skills&Itemid=494

'Unpaid Internships Deemed Illegal .....

As unemployment figures for16 - 24 year olds rise to one-in-five an Employment Tribunal has ruled that workers employed on an expenses-only basis are entitled to payment at least in line with the national minimum wage, in addition to payment for the holiday they accrue. The decision emphasises that creative industry employers are not excluded from obligations under the national minimum wage regulations.

HMRC, are reported very shortly to be issuing guidelines recognising that unpaid internships are illegal and qualify for the minimum wage. '

I think unpaid internships are now illegal in the UK (though not entirely sure as everything was a bit up in the air last time I looked, after the tribunal ruling mentioned above) - they have been in the US for quite a while - I suggest she contacts HMRC, then shops her ex-employer - if they have indeed broken the law.

I've been fighting against unpaid internships in my sector for quite a while.

Edited by gruffydd
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A relative has just been told her short term employment contract will not be renewed. She is being replaced by a new graduate who is working for free. They are perfectly happy with her work, but they would prefer to pay someone nothing to do the job, apparently. It's a small company, non-professional employment, not exactly a City accountancy firm.

Where will the madness end.

Its quite a reasonable course in a society and era where there is a great surplus of labour. Its the endgame of the current economic system. The young and unprotected workers are bearing the full brunt of the impact.. but each month it is spreading to more of society... to people who thought they were safe and were doing things like planning their retirement 20 years from now. Which after the hammer comes down on them looks laughable, thinking they could plan so far ahead.

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How long before one of the dwindling band of free marketeers pops up to insist it's just good old market forces at work. They forget that the slave trade trade was a market too.

The problem with turning people into commodities is what happens when the market value is zero? Do we get to melt them down for their bone marrow?- at least that's worth something- good old market forces, never let you down. :lol:

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How long before one of the dwindling band of free marketeers pops up to insist it's just good old market forces at work. They forget that the slave trade trade was a market too.

Sure, not a free one though. Free means "free from coercion" which slaves very obviously aren't.

The problem with turning people into commodities is what happens when the market value is zero? Do we get to melt them down for their bone marrow?- at least that's worth something- good old market forces, never let you down. :lol:

:)

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Tsk to the OP it is important in the first 3 months of employment to find out where the bodies are buried, I found them all relatively quickly, once you do power shifts quite rapidly and the directors of such firms are not as quick to get rid of you.

Tsk. That's quite cynical of you Ken. I'm with you on most things, but not on this one.

Remind me - I think you have been got ridden of too. Yes, I know: crap grammar, but you know what I mean. ;)

You're washing dishes now aren't you? :(

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How long before one of the dwindling band of free marketeers pops up to insist it's just good old market forces at work. They forget that the slave trade trade was a market too.

The problem with turning people into commodities is what happens when the market value is zero? Do we get to melt them down for their bone marrow?- at least that's worth something- good old market forces, never let you down. :lol:

So, our new economic model seems to be...

1. People work for little or no pay

2. Secure goods and services they produce with debt secured against their labour which pays little or nothing

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Yes, the one virtue of free market Capitalism is that it is guaranteed to destroy itself.

How can the simple ability to refuse others demands ever die?

Forcing agents get tired. They run out of resources. The reasons for their force become muddied over time. Force never lasts long, it always burns brightly, briefly and then is gone, burnt out.

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How can the simple ability to refuse others demands ever die?

Forcing agents get tired. They run out of resources. The reasons for their force become muddied over time. Force never lasts long, it always burns brightly, briefly and then is gone, burnt out.

And yet if we look at human history we see that slavery is the norm with slave free societies being the exception. Honestly, I dont think a free market of any real scale has ever really existed, I doubt it even could exist without fundamental changes to human nature....

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Tsk. That's quite cynical of you Ken. I'm with you on most things, but not on this one.

Remind me - I think you have been got ridden of too. Yes, I know: crap grammar, but you know what I mean. ;)

You're washing dishes now aren't you? :(

Yup I got pushed been out of work for a year, sort of underemployed. But no the restaurant I worked at folded, they couldn't afford their business rates as they doubled unexpectedly so they didn't think it was worth their while.

I went a bit further a field and went to Hong Kong for my dad's birthday (he bought me the ticket) attended 7 job interviews, 2 which I prepared before I went out there:

2 of the interviewers made their excuses in the first 3 minutes and walked off (everybody I've spoken to say this is highly probable due to my skin colour as HK is still a highly racist place there are no laws against it and in schools it is positively encouraged)

4 of them haven't gotten back to me yet, though its jyst a waiting game, Its only been a week though but still not too confident about them (of of those jobs was based in Hung Hom where the building next door collasped as they were very positive)

1 of those jobs I was uber positive, I was just about to hop on an airplane to Seoul, I ran and begged Air Korea to rebook me for 3 hours later. The nice woman let me do this waiving the admin fee. They sent somebody to the airport to meet me we had a quick impromtu interview. They offered the job there and then signed contracts, and said they will email me a date on Monday (last Monday) as to when to return to HK to start work, although some of it is telecommutable. Its Thursday, they suddenly have become very quiet and won't pick up the phone or answer emails, I've concluded this is a dead end too.

On landing in Seoul, I visited 9 guest houses who made noises about wanting somebody to run them who spoke English (fairly rubbish pay but it was something), then several expat mechanics , but then didn't have anything. Then a quick whip around Hagwons (which were a but muted if I pretended to be a Korean though they might give me a job).

I came back empty handed....

However my thought of if in the space of 4 months in the UK I had nothing not even a peep of an interview vs 7 in a 2 week period then the odds are better in HK, hence I've come back to tie up everything and will be leaving in April for a year.

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What sort of idiot graduate is going to work for free? I understand it can be good to show you've got experience but as indicated, all we need is for people to say no before this becomes the norm... talk about slavery!

you don't realise just how desparate people are, as said myself I worked for 5.5K a year and ended up renting a lockup to stay in for a while when I first started out, if I didn't do that the second third and 4th job would never have occured.

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What sort of idiot graduate is going to work for free? I understand it can be good to show you've got experience but as indicated, all we need is for people to say no before this becomes the norm... talk about slavery!

Long-term loss as a result short-term gain - who'd have thought it? People usually seem so sensible...

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In the UK, minimum wage kicks in and it cannot be signed away in a contract so you can't do unpaid work unless it is charitable.

Thats the official line but reality is markedly different, truck acts still exist whereby you hire a Eastern European on NMW then charge them money for rent. On paper it looks legit but in reality it is not.

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