Another Advert Typifing The Current Job Market

[King Stromba]

Science has been paying this sort of wages for good grads for years. Even some post doc research posts dont pay much more. I had a chat with a chemist from HLS (a known low payer) and he was on around 17k and had been a chemist for 25 years.

I dont see why an IT administrator is any more skilled than a post doc.

Edited January 27, 2010 by King Stromba

[Dave Spart]

I received an email from a job agent this morning about a one month Excel contract for £140 per day. I wrote back and told him it wouldn't even cover the expenses.

£140 per day is a full time salary pro-ratad and takes none of the inconveniences of contracting into account. Pathetic.

[crashologist]

...now what sort of property could he buy ?

He could buy this and commute in his car (without expenses):

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-20306839.html?sortByPriceDescending=false&pageNumber=1&backToListURL=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2FYork.html%3FsortByPriceDescending%3Dfalse

Edited January 27, 2010 by crashologist

[newbonic]

Yes, that's an interesting point. If lads from the sub-continent are prepared to come to England and live 10 to a room above an Indian restaurant, I'm sure they will be prepared to do the same to work in IT.

Which means, we truly live in a global economy and we better get used to the idea that we are going to have to compete with 3rd world wages - in our own country.

Back in the old days, a labour govt would have looked after the interest of their electorate, and protected their jobs from cheap imported workers. It suits the multinationals though, as evidenced by the fact that they allow 30,000 not particularly highly skilled IT workers per annum into the UK for this kind of role.

Still, keeps housing demand high, and keeps an extra tranche of the electorate dependant on the state.

[Cinzano Bianco]

He could buy this and commute in his car (without expenses):

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-20306839.html?sortByPriceDescending=false&pageNumber=1&backToListURL=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2FYork.html%3FsortByPriceDescending%3Dfalse

I love the title of the advert - "Terraced house for sale".

[contractor]

Disgraceful.

pay peanuts, get monkeys.

[tim123]

...now what sort of property could he buy ?

why should an 18 year old in their first job expect to be able to buy a house?

I was 26 before I could afford to buy and that was when average prices were three-four time average earnings.

tim

[Snugglybear]

why should an 18 year old in their first job expect to be able to buy a house?

tim

Er, it's not going to be an 18 year old in their first job. "Experience in this field is required."

[crashologist]

why should an 18 year old in their first job expect to be able to buy a house?

I was 26 before I could afford to buy and that was when average prices were three-four time average earnings.

tim

Where does it say they want an 18 year old? Perhaps you have jumped to this conclusion because the salary is so low?

[tim123]

Where does it say they want an 18 year old? Perhaps you have jumped to this conclusion because the salary is so low?

I was replying to someone else, who replied to someone else, who introduced the 18 year old.

tim

[Injin]

why should an 18 year old in their first job expect to be able to buy a house?

I was 26 before I could afford to buy and that was when average prices were three-four time average earnings.

tim

You could have done part time work to obtain materials and learned how to AND then built your own home in 6 years, then had the rest of your life off.

If you were allowed to ofc.

Shelter is incredibly easy to make. We've been doing it forever. You are just too used to the idea you have to pay others just for breathing, really.

[Ruffneck]

£15,000!

Im an IT admin and that kind of money is a joke to be honest. Any good IT admin will have a good few years experience coupled with excellent qualifications. If they do have that backgorund then they are worth more than the advertised wage

how much do they get in india?

[daniel stallion]

how much do they get in india?

How much do Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Bankers, Sales People, Marketing People and Astronauts get in India?

Edited January 27, 2010 by daniel stallion

[bendy]

+1

I.T. workers will go through this the same as plumbers, brickies, joiners etc have been going through.

Oversupply of labour means less money for everyone.

Many I.T. "professionals" are only tradespeople, even though they don't drive a van or wear overalls. Those at the top of their game will always get good money and always be in demand. The workaday average guys have had it good for a while in all trades. Those days are gone.

Hmmm, this should be the case, and like you say it is, indeed in the case of IT/plumbing/retail etc.

However, it seems that when the financial sector experiences overload (which as an accountant bothers me not a bit and which it has had by a serge of analysts/data crunchers/accountants etc. over the last 5 years) they don’t dilute the pay, but just make the bottle bigger and fill it with more concentrate.

Even when a hole appeared and the concentrate was bursting out, the government then kept up the illusion of a nice full bottle of Robinsons by pumping a load of water into it.

No lose.

[alwightchav!]

My first permanent 'proper' job - in 1991 - was a programmer in a local authority IT department starting on £10.5k.

I was qualified and already had experience, but I still started on £10.5K. If I'd stayed for 6 years and made it to the top of my pay scale, I could have been raking in around £13k.

Now, imagine living on 12-13k in the current climate and not nearly 2 decades ago.

Oh dear...

[Grimbert]

how much do they get in india?

A quick trip to Monsterinia.com, selecting IT jobs in Mumbai, reveals most vacancies in the 200-500,000 rupee bracket = £2700 - £6700. There are many jobs lower and higher than this band, so I guess this sort of salary would need some experience.

link

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

You could have done part time work to obtain materials and learned how to AND then built your own home in 6 years, then had the rest of your life off.

If you were allowed to ofc.

Shelter is incredibly easy to make. We've been doing it forever. You are just too used to the idea you have to pay others just for breathing, really.

When did we become indoctrinated to become slavers?

[Live Peasant]

I don't see it as being that bad for up North.

Take someone with 6 months experience, give them 15k basic, a car and a fuel card worth £500 quid a month, overtime and pay for a couple of courses. In three years they will be able to quite happily run fairly sophisticated sme networks anywhere.

Edited January 27, 2010 by linuxgeek

[daniel stallion]

A quick trip to Monsterinia.com, selecting IT jobs in Mumbai, reveals most vacancies in the 200-500,000 rupee bracket = £2700 - £6700. There are many jobs lower and higher than this band, so I guess this sort of salary would need some experience.

link

The job was UK based though - how are Indian based salaries relevant? If they ARE relevant I ask again:

How much do Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Bankers, Sales People, Marketing People and Astronauts get in India?

Perhaps we should champion legislation changes to allow 'on-shoring' for all professions (because that is exactly what happened in the IT industry)? If we did, within a few years, there would be millions of adequately qualified people willing to relocate and work for much lower salaries.

Whilst many of you seem to have nothing but contempt for IT people, save a healthy dose of spite, I'm sure you'd start to sympathise if the Government decides to add your profession to the list. Suggesting this is just a result of a 'Global market' is total nonsense as only certain job types have been handicapped such that locals cannot financial compete with 'on-shored' talent.

Edited January 27, 2010 by daniel stallion

[crashologist]

I was replying to someone else, who replied to someone else, who introduced the 18 year old.

tim

Sorry tim !

[Yoss]

The job was UK based though - how are Indian based salaries relevant? If they ARE relevant I ask again:

How much do Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Bankers, Sales People, Marketing People and Astronauts get in India?

Perhaps we should champion legislation changes to allow 'on-shoring' for all professions (because that is exactly what happened in the IT industry)? If we did, within a few years, there would be millions of adequately qualified people willing to relocate and work for much lower salaries.

Whilst many of you seem to have nothing but contempt for IT people, save a healthy dose of spite, I'm sure you'd start to sympathise if the Government decides to add your profession to the list. Suggesting this is just a result of a 'Global market' is total nonsense as only certain job types have been handicapped such that locals cannot financial compete with 'on-shored' talent.

You advertise a job...and if no one applies... You can basically off shore it! Via the FTV (Fast Track Visa) nothing new been going on for years. Tis called globalisation and many agencies do very well from advertising job with crazy salaries/skill sets precisely to by pass the current employment laws.

£15K .. To a well educated IT guy from another country might seems like a good deal. Just explain 20% tax and National Insurance/ Housing costs/travel costs/council tax...still worth it?

[daniel stallion]

You advertise a job...and if no one applies... You can basically off shore it! Via the FTV (Fast Track Visa) nothing new been going on for years. Tis called globalisation and many agencies do very well from advertising job with crazy salaries/skill sets precisely to by pass the current employment laws.

£15K .. To a well educated IT guy from another country might seems like a good deal. Just explain 20% tax and National Insurance/ Housing costs/travel costs/council tax...still worth it?

No.

The 'rules' are different for certain job types so it skews the 'Global market'

Also, I did not mention off-shoring. For clarity - I mean 'on-shoring' in the literal sense. The legislation changes effectively allow companies to employ foreign workers, that live and work in the UK whilst enjoying Tax advantages not available to UK Citizens (but only for certain types of jobs). This isn't Globalisation it's the Government hamstringing it's own Citizens at the behest of corporations.

Edited January 27, 2010 by daniel stallion

[Guillotine]

I don't any of the IT crowd on this thread are claiming that they are worth more than other specialised trades (e.g. teaching, banking, law, etc...).

I think that they are surprised at seeing their skills valued at the same level as unqualified labour.

I imagine it involves the reading of many manuals.

[charade]

£15,000!

Im an IT admin and that kind of money is a joke to be honest. Any good IT admin will have a good few years experience coupled with excellent qualifications. If they do have that backgorund then they are worth more than the advertised wage

...but, 3 miles from Burscough you can get a 1 bed flat for £50K.. Affordable on that salary?

clicky

A bit different to (say) the SE of England?

[AteMoose]

sounds ok, some software developers start on similar amounts. The IT support engineers in a large transport company in Birmingham were on a starting salary of 11k. The ones that drove the company van got paid 14k upward BUT they had to be on call all weekend for 50 quid extra for the entire weekend..

Edited January 27, 2010 by AteMoose