Democorruptcy Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Won't Germany do the decent thing and help ailing an Greece by buying some of their assets on the cheap? They could persuade them to pass a few new laws like German towels only on the sunbeds at the edge of the pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Even if they did exit the euro and devalue, their debts would still be in euros so they'd be in an even worse situation. They have to stick with the euro, play by the European Comission's rules and accept that, in economic terms, they are now a German colony. I assume they'd default on their euro debts, probably by converting euro bonds into new-drachma bonds. Doubtless bondholders will whine if this happens, but it's not as if the risk isn't known and priced in. If people are pushed too far by EU or other international agreements, they will withdraw from them -- through violent upheaval if that's what it takes. The Germans should understand this very well as they've done it themselves, most memorably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Citizen Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Greece is a typical example of a country that shouldnt be in the Euro. Greece make most of its income from taxes, mostly related to tourism, shipping amongst others. Greece is a lovely country, but so is Turkey. One is more expensive than the other and that in part is thanks to the Euro. The number of tourists visiting Greece's neirbours such as Turkey and Egypt have gone through the roof, while Greece has seen year on year decline since ditching the drachma. Sorry Greece, but you need to remember where you came from, because we loved you the way you used to be. If Greece doesnt get rid of the Euro or bailed our by the big boys then this is definitly one to watch, expecially regarding property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveAndLetBuy Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I assume they'd default on their euro debts, probably by converting euro bonds into new-drachma bonds. Doubtless bondholders will whine if this happens, but it's not as if the risk isn't known and priced in. ... Could they really do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 another week another article of impending collapse of the euro in the Torygraph by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard yaaaawwn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 They already do. one of the producers of € notes is the Bank of Greece, notes bearing the print code starting with an 'N.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_banknotes Spain don't get to make any, but Ireland do! ALL of the Euro countries get to make notes/coins that they feed into the system The amount that they are allowed to make depends upon the size of their economy (as a proportion of the whole EU economy). But they can't print any more than this. Though not all of the EU countries actually make their own money, some contract a third party to do it, but the still count as if they were made by the country in question. Countries are paid by the ECB to do this. If the UK were to join the Euro we would receive a "Euro bonus" of (I believe) several tens of million (per year) because we would be allowed to print more notes than our cash economy actually needs as we have a much higher peroportion of credit card payments than other countries. tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 another week another article of impending collapse of the euro in the Torygraph by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard yaaaawwn Yes, it's getting quite boring. Evans-pritchard can't - or won't - take in the extent that the US is dependent on China to keep its ponzi economy afloat. What I can't understand - maybe someone can help me out here - is what is the difference between Ireland and Greece? They have both run up huge public sector deficits and have now initiated swingeing cuts. yet Dublin is feted while Athens is spat upon. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yes, it's getting quite boring. Evans-pritchard can't - or won't - take in the extent that the US is dependent on China to keep its ponzi economy afloat. What I can't understand - maybe someone can help me out here - is what is the difference between Ireland and Greece? They have both run up huge public sector deficits and have now initiated swingeing cuts. yet Dublin is feted while Athens is spat upon. Why? Dublin convinced thier people to vote yes to Lisbon the second time around. I would imagine a few deals were done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellerkat Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Greece is a typical example of a country that shouldnt be in the Euro. I remember when they were shoe-horned into the Eurozone at the last moment. The commentary at the time was universally negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dublin convinced thier people to vote yes to Lisbon the second time around. I would imagine a few deals were done. Ireland have also talked very tough on reducing their public debt, including such things as cutting benefits and public sector pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveAndLetBuy Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yes, it's getting quite boring. Evans-pritchard can't - or won't - take in the extent that the US is dependent on China to keep its ponzi economy afloat. What I can't understand - maybe someone can help me out here - is what is the difference between Ireland and Greece? They have both run up huge public sector deficits and have now initiated swingeing cuts. yet Dublin is feted while Athens is spat upon. Why? I'm not aware of Greece having made that many cuts, certainly not compaired to Ireland, so I assumed that was the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Yes, it's getting quite boring. Evans-pritchard can't - or won't - take in the extent that the US is dependent on China to keep its ponzi economy afloat. What I can't understand - maybe someone can help me out here - is what is the difference between Ireland and Greece? They have both run up huge public sector deficits and have now initiated swingeing cuts. yet Dublin is feted while Athens is spat upon. Why? simple (Im from Ireland btw) we had a series of brutal budgets addressing (somewhat) the problems with bloated welfare / Public sector costs Greece didnt (yet) do anything or even make any noise about addressing issues Dublin convinced thier people to vote yes to Lisbon the second time around. I would imagine a few deals were done. your talking shit Edited January 7, 2010 by yelims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Citizen Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yes, it's getting quite boring. Evans-pritchard can't - or won't - take in the extent that the US is dependent on China to keep its ponzi economy afloat. What I can't understand - maybe someone can help me out here - is what is the difference between Ireland and Greece? They have both run up huge public sector deficits and have now initiated swingeing cuts. yet Dublin is feted while Athens is spat upon. Why? Ireland is next door to the United Kingdom. Euro countries love the UK to join to strengthen the Euro, once it has its deficit under control too. You dont get new countries to join you decadent currency by beating upon its next door neirbour. Instead you hold Ireland up as model of how much the Irish love their new currency that they want more of it by signing the Lisbon Treaty. Come on UK, get your house in order, get rid of Gordon and join us in the Euro. BTW Ireland, theres a fricking big whole in your budget, sort it out or you'll be like Greece and Spain. We cant let the UK see what a dismal failure the Euro is, until they've joined and can help pick up the mess we have created over the past 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CokeSnortingTory Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yes, it's getting quite boring. Evans-pritchard can't - or won't - take in the extent that the US is dependent on China to keep its ponzi economy afloat. Why do you resort to lying? http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100000821/china-bernanke-and-the-price-of-gold/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5379285/China-warns-Federal-Reserve-over-printing-money.html http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100002252/china-gold-and-the-civilization-shift/ http://www.campaignforliberty.com/wire.php?view=7901 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie The Tramp Returns Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Euro Brinkmanship Escalates As Ecb Shuts Door On Greek Bail-Out Greece the first to drop the Euro and start the ball rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Could they really do that? They're a sovereign state, so yes. If they absolutely couldn't default, there'd be no credit spread on their bonds vs German bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) simple (Im from Ireland btw) we had a series of brutal budgets addressing (somewhat) the problems with bloated welfare / Public sector costs Greece didnt (yet) do anything or even make any noise about addressing issues your talking shit If your politicians did not do a deal for getting Lisbon approved then they are the most stupid politicians in the whole world. They could hae named thier price, Audi, BMW, Peugeot car plants in Ireland all would have been aprroved in an instant. So the term "Thick Paddy" must apply to your political class. Edited January 7, 2010 by ralphmalph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 If you politicians did not do a deal for getting Lisbon approved then they are the most stupid politicians in the whole world. They could hae named thier price, Audi, BMW, Peugeot car plants in Ireland all would have been aprroved in an instant. So the term "Thick Paddy" must apply to your political class. you give to much credit to the politicians here they proven time and time how utterly corrupt and incompetent they are and incapable of doing anything but lining their own pockets so once again, stop talking shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphmalph Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 you give to much credit to the politicians here they proven time and time how utterly corrupt and incompetent they are and incapable of doing anything but lining their own pockets so once again, stop talking shit I have never seen a Country sold down the river so fast, by so few, for zero gain for the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deflation Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) deleted Edited January 7, 2010 by deflation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I have never seen a Country sold down the river so fast, by so few, for zero gain for the population. talking about UK are we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 ALL of the Euro countries get to make notes/coins that they feed into the system The amount that they are allowed to make depends upon the size of their economy (as a proportion of the whole EU economy). But they can't print any more than this. If the Greeks decide they need 'printy printy', who's going to stop them? Do you think German troops will be invading Greece to shut down the printing press? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'm not aware of Greece having made that many cuts, certainly not compaired to Ireland, so I assumed that was the difference. What about this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411749.stm The Greek prime minister has unveiled a series of spending cuts, warning that the country is at risk of "sinking under its debts".George Papandreou said the planned cuts would include a 10% cut in both social security spending, and overall government operating expenditures. Calling for national unity, he vowed to reduce Greece's public deficit from the current 12% to under 3% by 2013. He also announced a 90% tax on the bonuses of senior bank workers. ANALYSIS Malcolm Brabant, BBC correspondent in Athens. This was a speech that was designed to appease international markets and European central bankers. Mr Papandreou said there were certain moments in the history of a nation when the choices made defined the time to come. Today was such a moment he said. Then he announced what the government described as sweeping structural reforms. These included a 10% reduction in both government operating expenditures and social security expenditure. Mr Papandreou's Socialist government will try to convince the unions and opposition political parties that the cuts he has proposed are in the national interest. The Conservatives are likely to concur, but left-wing groupings have already indicated that they will fight the government. Other proposals include a cut in defence spending, pay and hiring freezes for public sector workers, and the closure of a third of Greece's overseas tourism offices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 What about this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411749.stm Quality output from Asia Times as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Quality output from Asia Times as usual. Wot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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