Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Because it shows that measured against GDP, public spending was increasing significantly under a Conservative government, after after they had been in power for 13 odd years, so it could only have been down to their own ineptitude. And the alternative is pretty much the same, which is the point I'm making. They can cut public sector jobs as much as they like, but all that happens is that the amount spent on benefits will rise. The model is breaking down, we cannot be a net importer for ever and hope to find work for our citizens. Accepting the service economy approach means accepting 2-3m claiming unemployment, and millions more hidden in other schemes. The large public sector is just another way of disguising the fact that due to offshoring and increasing automation a huge chunk of the UK population is surplus to requirements. I don't see anyone in the Conservative party or the Labour party addressing key issues about the sustainability of our economic model. Indeed. Look at the expansion of the public sector as a stimulus package for the private sector. It's a case of pay people low benefits to sit around all day or pay people a small wage (but more than benefit) to shuffle paper all day. If you choose the benefit route then lots of private sector workers end up joining those claiming benefit because of reduced demand for their goods. This is why the Tories (assuming they get in - not a done deal by any means) will not cut the public sector in any meaningful way. They'll just 'privatise' by giving contracts to 'private' companies who will employ the same people doing the same things as they were when they worked for the council (but will be 'private' sector employees rather than public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I think you will find that says more about the political bias of most academics than it does about history. So academics didn't like Thatcher because they knew that under her public spending increased? It was an easy way to get a 2:1 because it distinguished you from the Thatcher adorers and haters alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 When you take into account their housing costs, their pensions, the council tax they won't be paying and various other benefits they are entitled to then add the cost of administering the whole thing with labyrinthine rules, I don't think the total cost will be massively different to the salary of a low paid job. Like a true Daily Mail reader, you presume that all public sector jobs pay £60K. A teacher in England starts on £21K and there are plenty in the public sector on a lot less. Most people in the town I was born would rip your arm off for 21K, that's without taking the holidays and other conditions into account. And the reason I know how much people in the public sector get paid for doing f*ck all is because I read the Guardian job pages actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Indeed. Look at the expansion of the public sector as a stimulus package for the private sector. It's a case of pay people low benefits to sit around all day or pay people a small wage (but more than benefit) to shuffle paper all day. If you choose the benefit route then lots of private sector workers end up joining those claiming benefit because of reduced demand for their goods. This is why the Tories (assuming they get in - not a done deal by any means) will not cut the public sector in any meaningful way. They'll just 'privatise' by giving contracts to 'private' companies who will employ the same people doing the same things as they were when they worked for the council (but will be 'private' sector employees rather than public. Sorry, but this is fantasy land thinking The government cannot go on spending 20 billion a month more than it is raising in revenue The Game is Over The last few years will be the glory days of the public sector gravy train in this country The axeman he cometh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Most people in the town I was born would rip your arm off for 21K, that's without taking the holidays and other conditions into account. And the reason I know how much people in the public sector get paid for doing f*ck all is because I read the Guardian job pages actually. The vast majority of public sector jobs are not advertised in the Guardian. These represent the top 2-3% of jobs. Most are advertised in job centres / local papers. Refuse Collection Service Administrator - £15K a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The vast majority of public sector jobs are not advertised in the Guardian. These represent the top 2-3% of jobs. Most are advertised in job centres / local papers. Refuse Collection Service Administrator - £15K a year How dare you speak sense and try to stop people having their Daily Hate at the public sector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Sorry, but this is fantasy land thinking The government cannot go on spending 20 billion a month more than it is raising in revenue The Game is Over The last few years will be the glory days of the public sector gravy train in this country The axeman he cometh! We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 We'll see. Thats just it - we will see. Having lived through the last time the country was bankrupted by a Labour government I feel I have a pretty good idea what is going to happen. Fortunately for me, I have a good cushion of capital that I managed to accumulate under the 'evil' Tories in the 80's and 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Sorry, but this is fantasy land thinking The government cannot go on spending 20 billion a month more than it is raising in revenue The Game is Over The last few years will be the glory days of the public sector gravy train in this country The axeman he cometh! Whats best of all is the incoming Tory Govt will likely slash benefits and put spongers like you back into work (although doing what after a 10 year hiatus....) So not only have you missed out on the last 10 years of the relatively low tax work environment You will be taxed to death on what you earn in the future Edited December 22, 2009 by Kurt Barlow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The vast majority of public sector jobs are not advertised in the Guardian. These represent the top 2-3% of jobs. Most are advertised in job centres / local papers. Refuse Collection Service Administrator - £15K a year Yes but in many areas of the country, that would be the highest paid vacancy in the job centre And you probably think I am taking the p*ss - but I am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Whats best of all is the incoming Tory Govt will likely slash benefits and put spongers like you back into work (although doing what after a 10 year hiatus....) So not only have you missed out on the last 10 years of the relatively low tax work environment You will be taxed to death on what you earn in the future 5 years actually And taxes have never been higher - 90%+ marginal rates between about 15 and 18K And I look forward to competing with you in the future for jobs at 12K a year, which I can live on quite happily as I have no mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yes but in many areas of the country, that would be the highest paid vacancy in the job centre And you probably think I am taking the p*ss - but I am not. You would have to pay me the best money in Town to be the Director of Social Services for Bradford. Perhaps you would be willing to do it for £25K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 5 years actually And taxes have never been higher - 90%+ marginal rates between about 15 and 18K And I look forward to competing with you in the future for jobs at 12K a year, which I can live on quite happily as I have no mortgage. Fortunately my work is fairly restricted and the deeper the recession the more my skills are in demand! Keep them where theres a blame claim coming in. I have never been so busy batting off Pond Life Solicitors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thats just it - we will see. Having lived through the last time the country was bankrupted by a Labour government I feel I have a pretty good idea what is going to happen. Fortunately for me, I have a good cushion of capital that I managed to accumulate under the 'evil' Tories in the 80's and 90's. What happened last time was in a world where there was plenty of cheap oil and no concerns about it running out and not much in the way of outsourcing jobs to India. It really is different this time, but not in the way the bulls are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 5 years actually And taxes have never been higher - 90%+ marginal rates between about 15 and 18K And I look forward to competing with you in the future for jobs at 12K a year, which I can live on quite happily as I have no mortgage. 90%?! Do you live in a different UK to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Yes but in many areas of the country, that would be the highest paid vacancy in the job centre And you probably think I am taking the p*ss - but I am not. Not wanting to be unpleasant to anyone at all but the job centre is not the place to look for a job. I've never heard of anyone finding a decently paid job in the job centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 90%?! Do you live in a different UK to me? No, you just don't have a clue about the tax and benefits system. Or how little millions of people actually earn. For every extra pound someone earns between about 15 and 18k they lose about 90p working tax credit. Don't know exact figures, but if you do a bit of research I think you will find I am correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Not wanting to be unpleasant to anyone at all but the job centre is not the place to look for a job. I've never heard of anyone finding a decently paid job in the job centre. The North West is full of 5 pound towns, with tens of thousands of jobs in the private sector paying minimum wage. And it is probably the same in many other parts of the country. That is why this is being described as the first 'middle class' recession - because the people at the bottom couidn't possibly be any worse off, because they would already be better off living on benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Fortunately my work is fairly restricted and the deeper the recession the more my skills are in demand! Keep them where theres a blame claim coming in. I have never been so busy batting off Pond Life Solicitors! Don't tell me - you are a wind turbine thrust flange fettler and there are only 3 left in the country. Hopefully you will get a job on an industrial heritage site maintaining the last working wind turbine in the country after all the rest have been cut up for scrap in the next 5-10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 You would have to pay me the best money in Town to be the Director of Social Services for Bradford. Perhaps you would be willing to do it for £25K? I wouldn't pay anyone anything to be the Director of Social services, how did the human race manage without social workers for the previous few hundred thousand years? You only need social workers if you have a benefit system that destroys families and rips society apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 No, you just don't have a clue about the tax and benefits system. Or how little millions of people actually earn. For every extra pound someone earns between about 15 and 18k they lose about 90p working tax credit. Don't know exact figures, but if you do a bit of research I think you will find I am correct. I know exactly how little some people earn. My family are some of these people. That's nowhere near the same a 90% tax rate is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest absolutezero Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 You only need social workers if you have a benefit system that destroys families and rips society apart. I'm starting to think you might actually be insane.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never Going To Buy ! Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Ahhh, ok so the Tories do increase public spending now. But I see, they spend money on infrastructure. I can remember how they did this, by selling off publicly owned (and profit making) organisations like British Gas, British Telecom, water boards up and down the UK, the national railway network and rolling stock, etc. Those were not just a quick and easy, (one-time only) way of getting money to spend, oh, no they were cunning ways to 'build infrastructure'. Most excellent. I look forward to the 'infrastructure' the next tory government will build. You might need to point it out to me when it appears though, I think I might have a few problems spotting it +1 When someone just has an uncontrollable hard on for Thatcher I don't think they'll be able to think properly due to all the blood rushing from one head to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Don't tell me - you are a wind turbine thrust flange fettler and there are only 3 left in the country. Hopefully you will get a job on an industrial heritage site maintaining the last working wind turbine in the country after all the rest have been cut up for scrap in the next 5-10 years. No - I am a Regulatory Compliance Manager for a major hotel / bars group. The job title is slightly misleading as approx 70% of my work is batting off liability claims of which 70% are from spongers trying to swindle us. My team saves the Company (in reduced payouts, lower insurance) 26 times what it costs. Now thats productivity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spivT Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Some of the money was to pay for the debts run up by the last Labour government what on earth compelled them to do that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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