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Generation Y What Can We Do?


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Guest sillybear2

Bring the system down from within, become a banker or politician.

Maybe start a ponzi scheme or try and become the head of an existing ponzi scheme like the BoE.

Edited by sillybear2
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I'm 22.. the only people I know with a hope in hell of owning property either have parents paying a big chunk of deposit or an inheritance on the cards.

Vast majority of my friends earn £10k-£15k, and live in big HMO's, 4-6 to a house, often with people that they don't really know or even like, Housing situation here is dire.

Average house price where I am (Norwich, nowhere special) is about 8x average wage... anyone with poor parents does not have a hope in hell of buying.. it's just plain not possible to afford even a basic 2-bed terrace.

Pisses me off how the people that do get a ton of money from their parents or their partner's parents act as if everyone in the world has that option.

They can pave the ******ing green belt for all I care, just build some more cheap houses! Tired of being crammed into either the freezing leftovers of the Victorian age, or the paper-thin BTL trading chips of the modern world. How hard can it be to make a simple, basic, modern 2-bed house that sells for £80k? They could crank out lots of great new places within a year if the nimbys didn't keep blocking it all.

As for the environmental argument, it's a load of crap... a well-planned housing estate with gardens and allotments is much better for the local biodiversity than a patch of grass or insecticide-coated wheat field.

All the new developments worth a damn have been "chavs only" developments built by the council. My brother used to live in one.. within 6 months the place turned from "shiny, new", to "complete shithole". Irritates the hell of me when people get given a nice flat for free than don't take care of it or give a damn about their local community. They get food for free, they get shelter for for free, they get a reasonable basic standard of living without having to work.. all for nothing! We pay out £160bn of taxes in social security per year to secure this and the ******* still aren't happy!

I'm not specifically anti-unemployed since my brother is also unemployed (due to bipolar) but does a lot of voluntary work in his spare time for a local church and he's also involved with his housing committee, writes letters to MP's whenever he sees something that needs sorting out. Nothing stopping unemployed people from being decent members of society who have a valuable contribution, but the majority of them want to just sit on their arses, or smash up a few cars, or throw bealch in some woman's face (I might as well go all "daily mail" if I'm gonna rant :P).

I think my generation is a mixed bunch... the ones that have tried to get ahead have really gone for it... ignore the headlines about "more students getting a's therefore a-levels are easier", load of bullshit... students simply work a lot harder these days, there is a much bigger academic culture than there used to be... intelligence isn't insulted anymore, stupidity is.

I think a lot of the headlines are there to pander to the older generation who might not want to stomach the fact that the "yoof of today" are just as hard-working as they were.

On the opposite side of things, todays chavs are a lot more brutal and downright evil than the chavs of 20 years ago. something's changed... there isn't even any sort of healthy rebelliousness behind it, just complete nihilism... I blame the fall of religion myself.. while not entirely suitable for a modern world, it did give a little bit of hope to people... i.e. life after death if you lead a good life, things will get better in heaven etc.

I'm not religious myself, I just think it had a very important role to play.

So, we have a lot of people just generally pissed off at each other for various reasons.. society is now way more fragmented than it has ever been.

Edited by DementedTuna
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What choices do we have, what can we do about the current situation?

Is the best choice to leave the country?

Huge student loans, huge house prices, high unemployment, a society that is not the one are parents brought us up to anticipate. Our qualifications are derided. We are herded towards pointless qualifications. Our acquaintances whom have fallen into the benefits system, frankly, seem better off.

Many of us can't afford a family and those that can are highly in debt.

House prices are hugely divisive and often turn our parents against us if we do not accept the assertion that rising house prices are good.

Have facebook, x-boxes and binge drinking made us so apathetic we don't care?

We are a humiliated and abused generation. We are all hoody wearing, under qualified, lazy, obese and useless. according to many. Tarred with the same brush and not willing to make our own way in this world as the article below states.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/dec/08/young-adults-living-parental-home-ons

EDIT: Lurkers in Gen Y please join and contribute, there are not many of us on these sites!!

Ahh Diddums. Heres what you can do:

1. Don't believe it is your right to a 'family' home. You will have to start in a s***hole you can barely afford and do it up with your own lilly white hands and then trade up.

2. Don't believe that Friends is real. Start to believe in marriage again and work as a team not as F*** buddy's who commit to a mortgage before a marriage certificate

3. Work hard and I mean hard. 7 days a week often in two jobs (my record was 5) for years not a weekend every so often

4. Stop whining. Humilated and abused to use two examples of generations that were humilated and abused:

Our parents who fought in the war being shot and killed (not in a video game)

Black/Asian/Irish immigrants who created new lives in the UK in 50's and 60's now they had abuse heaped on them physical and verbal

Stop whining and celebrate life

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What choices do we have, what can we do about the current situation?

Is the best choice to leave the country?

Huge student loans, huge house prices, high unemployment, a society that is not the one are parents brought us up to anticipate. Our qualifications are derided. We are herded towards pointless qualifications. Our acquaintances whom have fallen into the benefits system, frankly, seem better off.

Many of us can't afford a family and those that can are highly in debt.

House prices are hugely divisive and often turn our parents against us if we do not accept the assertion that rising house prices are good.

Have facebook, x-boxes and binge drinking made us so apathetic we don't care?

We are a humiliated and abused generation. We are all hoody wearing, under qualified, lazy, obese and useless. according to many. Tarred with the same brush and not willing to make our own way in this world as the article below states.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/dec/08/young-adults-living-parental-home-ons

EDIT: Lurkers in Gen Y please join and contribute, there are not many of us on these sites!!

Ahh Diddums. Heres what you can do:

1. Don't believe it is your right to a 'family' home. You will have to start in a s***hole you can barely afford and do it up with your own lilly white hands and then trade up.

2. Don't believe that Friends is real. Start to believe in marriage again and work as a team not as F*** buddy's who commit to a mortgage before a marriage certificate

3. Work hard and I mean hard. 7 days a week often in two jobs (my record was 5) for years not a weekend every so often

4. Stop whining. Humilated and abused to use two examples of generations that were humilated and abused:

Our parents who fought in the war being shot and killed (not in a video game)

Black/Asian/Irish immigrants who created new lives in the UK in 50's and 60's now they had abuse heaped on them physical and verbal

Stop whining and celebrate life

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Use the internet to make sure that your generation have a voice. For example - flood newspaper 'readers comments' with comments, on a daily and weekly basis, that highlight how your generation are being robbed of the chance of buying a home (or at best can buy a starter home but not move up the ladder) by economy wrecking high house prices. Make clear that your generation will not be satisfied or quietened by 'share ownership' schemes etc. and that only big falls in property prices to bring them back to long term trend affordable levels will do the trick. Make house prices a political issue that politicians can't afford to ignore. There is still time to make it an election issue. Whilst you are (very) unlikely to be able to impact on economic fundamentals such collective action can have a very significant impact on the discourse environment about property prices and market and such discourse is a very significant driver of sentiment.

Couldn't Facebook, etc. be used to generate interest and groups to take action such as flooding newspaper 'readers comments' in order to make the general populace and, probably more importantly the p[oliticians and media, aware of the anger, disatisfaction and impact of current levels of house prices on a whole generation?

Edited by Alfie Moon
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I'm 22.. the only people I know with a hope in hell of owning property either have parents paying a big chunk of deposit or an inheritance on the cards.

Vast majority of my friends earn £10k-£15k, and live in big HMO's, 4-6 to a house, often with people that they don't really know or even like, Housing situation here is dire.

Average house price where I am (Norwich, nowhere special) is about 8x average wage... anyone with poor parents does not have a hope in hell of buying.. it's just plain not possible to afford even a basic 2-bed terrace.

Pisses me off how the people that do get a ton of money from their parents or their partner's parents act as if everyone in the world has that option.

They can pave the ******ing green belt for all I care, just build some more cheap houses! Tired of being crammed into either the freezing leftovers of the Victorian age, or the paper-thin BTL trading chips of the modern world.

All the new developments worth a damn have been "chavs only" developments built by the council. My brother used to live in one.. within 6 months the place turned from "shiny, new", to "complete shithole".

This is why average house prices should either be £60k or average wages should be £60k, because otherwise the maths is broken.

I have to say I am shocked that people would bother to work for £10k, perhaps if they are young they can't get the full range of benefits that the Chav classes seems to adept at extracting then it might be a way onto the employment ladder. But seriously £10k is below poverty line.

I am particularly shocked as my first job straight out of University in 1996 paid double that and that 14 years ago. Someone on £10k today must have almost no hope of buying a home or living comfortably.

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Guest sillybear2

Don't worry, if something is unsustainable then it can never be sustained no matter how hard they try, it'll all fall apart around their ears eventually. Our economic model is broken, the elites know it, it just takes time before something puts that final boot in 1989 style. They're all sitting there like Madoff wondering why the scam can keep running so long based on inertia alone.

Edited by sillybear2
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Don't worry, if something is unsustainable then it can never be sustained no matter how hard they try, it'll all fall apart around their ears eventually. Our economic model is broken, the elites know it, it just takes time before something puts that final boot in 1989 style. They're all sitting there like Madoff wondering why the scam can keep running so long based on inertia alone.

Generation Y needs to :

- Save

- Refuse to take on debt.

Like you say SillyBear, the cycle will come back in their favour. It's just a question of time. Those that follow the 2 simple rules above will be well placed to have a decent future.

I was a student in the 80s and it was pretty grim then. Saved like crazy. Rented for 12 years straight and moved about quite a bit. refused to take on debt.

Generation Y has amazed me with their ability to spend and consume all kinds of tat, blindly. Aided by their parents in a lot of cases, it must be said. Maybe all that's required is a bit more self-discipline?

Edited by Agentimmo
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+ Those without property, the First Time Buyers looking to enter the market, complained, but for a long time have found it difficult to find a voice. There was no political discussion and hardly any media outlets for venting their frustration of being left behind. They watched helplessly, as the wealth-generating property engine took off and lifted out of sight.

Wealth-collecting property engine, not wealth-generating

Wealth generating didn't cause the problems, it was the all the passive wealth collecting through property that screwed things up

. . .

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The boomers and others made their money by being asset rich and taking on debt, Y-ers should be cash rich asset poor. The cycle has turned, we are going through debt liquidation and the structures that rely on it will get destroyed. The problem is few the mass of people loose money on the way down just as they make it on the way up. In fact the masses are so stupid I read the average individual investor

made less money than inflation on the stock market boom from the early 80s.

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Generation Y needs to :

- Save

- Refuse to take on debt.

Like you say SillyBear, the cycle will come back in their favour. It's just a question of time. Those that follow the 2 simple rules above will be well placed to have a decent future.

I was a student in the 80s and it was pretty grim then. Saved like crazy. Rented for 12 years straight and moved about quite a bit. refused to take on debt.

Generation Y has amazed me with their ability to spend and consume all kinds of tat, blindly. Aided by their parents in a lot of cases, it must be said. Maybe all that's required is a bit more self-discipline?

Generation Y don’t spend anymore than the other generations.

How can they when most of their very low income goes on rent/mortgage/tax.

The true and only way to rebel is NOT to save, NOT to work and to go on the DOLE.

It would take a few million generation Ys to move out of work and onto the dole to force the governments hand to rebalance the unfairness in the generations.

Edited by cells
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This is why average house prices should either be £60k or average wages should be £60k, because otherwise the maths is broken.

I have to say I am shocked that people would bother to work for £10k, perhaps if they are young they can't get the full range of benefits that the Chav classes seems to adept at extracting then it might be a way onto the employment ladder. But seriously £10k is below poverty line.

I am particularly shocked as my first job straight out of University in 1996 paid double that and that 14 years ago. Someone on £10k today must have almost no hope of buying a home or living comfortably.

How times have changed eh?,

My first job out of university paid 6K (this was in the early 00s) though I had to do this as nobody would give me a job and it was a way to climb out of the experience trap even though I had crammed in a sandwich year.

It then went up to 10 or 11K when I moved back to Manchester, I stayed there for a while, and left for a 16.5K job which went up to about 17.5K.

I don't know its strange, I work now as a kitchen porter part time I make about £4K from this (if you annualise it), I make about £2-3000 depending on if anybody needs anything fixed as I can fix plumbing, motorbikes and cars. Yet I feel much more liberated in this uber low earning state.

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Use the internet to make sure that your generation have a voice. For example - flood newspaper 'readers comments' with comments, on a daily and weekly basis, that highlight how your generation are being robbed of the chance of buying a home (or at best can buy a starter home but not move up the ladder) by economy wrecking high house prices. Make clear that your generation will not be satisfied or quietened by 'share ownership' schemes etc. and that only big falls in property prices to bring them back to long term trend affordable levels will do the trick. Make house prices a political issue that politicians can't afford to ignore. There is still time to make it an election issue. Whilst you are (very) unlikely to be able to impact on economic fundamentals such collective action can have a very significant impact on the discourse environment about property prices and market and such discourse is a very significant driver of sentiment.

Couldn't Facebook, etc. be used to generate interest and groups to take action such as flooding newspaper 'readers comments' in order to make the general populace and, probably more importantly the p[oliticians and media, aware of the anger, disatisfaction and impact of current levels of house prices on a whole generation?

Yes, you are right Alfie.

Find your balls and fight. It is too easy for the political class to live in a bubble, it needs to be pricked.

The internet is incredibly powerful and that power has not yet been used to a tenth of its potential. I believe that the political class is terrified of it.

Consider how the climate change doubters can niggle away and the Twin Towers issues are still debated.

And those people who keep going on about house prices.....

What is to come is the link between issues and real political pressure. The missing link in internet democracy.

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What choices do we have, what can we do about the current situation?

Is the best choice to leave the country?

Huge student loans, huge house prices, high unemployment, a society that is not the one are parents brought us up to anticipate. Our qualifications are derided. We are herded towards pointless qualifications. Our acquaintances whom have fallen into the benefits system, frankly, seem better off.

Many of us can't afford a family and those that can are highly in debt.

House prices are hugely divisive and often turn our parents against us if we do not accept the assertion that rising house prices are good.

Have facebook, x-boxes and binge drinking made us so apathetic we don't care?

We are a humiliated and abused generation. We are all hoody wearing, under qualified, lazy, obese and useless. according to many. Tarred with the same brush and not willing to make our own way in this world as the article below states.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/dec/08/young-adults-living-parental-home-ons

EDIT: Lurkers in Gen Y please join and contribute, there are not many of us on these sites!!

Not much sympathy really.

The architects of your generations "misery" are the baby boomers, your own parents.

To my mind, they were spoiled and they've done even worse by their children, giving them expectations that can't be fulfilled.

Either :

Work hard and be wise and patient, your time will come as others have suggested.

Some other countries are better, but not all.

Or :

Organise a revolution, hang a few bankers from lamp-posts and reboot democracy in the Swiss model but with lobbying and party donations banned, and the BBC restored to objectivity.

For that, I might even help you. I'm not happy with the bankers/boomers stealing my childrens future.

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I was born in 1983, of course I knew housing was expensive when I was at university but this site has really opened my eyes to the reality of the mess we're in. I'm very grateful to the older posters for sharing their experience, I suspect many a GenY FTB wannabe has been saved from making the biggest financial mistake of their lives by HPC.co.uk.

Like most people my age I moved into an HMO after university because I wanted to be independent, but many friends from school (especially those in £10-15k jobs) are still with their parents. Most of them are paying down debts or saving and have been for years. Most people I know live fairly frugally, I know we are often blamed for being the iPod/easyJet/gap year/designer clothes generation but the fact is we never had any money in the first place, in fact we all start adult life tens of k in student debt. My feeling is those who were really splashing the disposable cash (okay, credit) are slightly older, probably in their mid 30s now and managed to catch HPI, so they bought into the property wealth/big weddings/home improvements/holiday on credit/new car bonanza. They are the ones who are really going to get it in the shorts when the crash proper comes, not GenY and not the fairly sensible Boomers either.

HMOs for year after year are not great for self-esteem or quality of life (nor is living with the folks), and I suspect HMOs are not particularly cheap either when you compare them to what 35% of a typical mid-20s graduate wage could have rented or bought in 1995. However my plan is to rent as cheaply as I can for as long as I can stand it, save as much as I can, and stay the hell out of debt. It does feel a bit like always living for tomorrow, but there you go. This house of cards is coming down eventually, and the longer they try to prop it up the harder it will fall. So much wealth is going to be destroyed when HPC proper comes and those who bought 2002 onwards lose their equity forever. I think house prices will fall well below 3.5x wages, they might go down to 2.5x or even 2x. HPC proper might even cause a mini babyboom as a 10-15 year wide age group currently stuck with their parents or in cramped and overpriced rentals is freed from the burden of expensive and insecure accommodation.

I agree with Greg Bowman about marriage, it's probably not wise to buy a flat at 4x joint salary with your girlfriend. Get married first (obviously don't get married just so you can buy a house!) and make it work. I think I disagree with him about work though, you should work as much as you need to for the life you want to have. If you want to be rich, work 100 hour weeks. If you can be content with less, work 40 hour weeks. It's your life and you're the one who has to live it.

I am generally optimistic for the future. I think things are going to get worse and stay that way for a few years, but when idiot governments and central banks are finally broken and things are allowed to correct themselves they will be very good indeed. Generation Y has what the UK needs: young, healthy labour in a country increasingly full of old people. There will be a lot of houses to sell, and fewer wages available to service mortgages. Demographically we are quite a small generation, and we will benefit from providing something that is in short supply. Part of that will be cheaper housing, but I think the future in general will be a more secure and less stressed and indebted one.

Hold tight.

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EDIT: Lurkers in Gen Y please join and contribute, there are not many of us on these sites!!

Fully paid up member of Gen Y here :D!

I still maintain that, for many (but not all) it came down to choice.

  • I went to a normal school, I chose to work hard

  • I chose to go to university, I supported myself by working and Student Loans

  • I spent as little as I could when others around me were chomping through their cash

  • I chose to do a degree with some value

  • I decided to pay off my student loan as soon as I could

  • I lived with my parents and later in the cheapest rental accommodation I could find

  • I didn't drink (heavily ;)!) and shunned unnecessary consumerism

  • I was as efficient with money as I could be without compromising "living life"

  • I saved as much as I could each year from the time I left uni until the second half of my 20s

  • I used this money to fund a house (circa 2006)

  • I continued to save and overpay my mortgage as much as I could

  • Got married - all bills halved!

  • Partner was also a hard worker and saver, so with double the income and equity and now with a need to upgrade...

  • I sold my first place for 15k profit (so much for HPC advice!)

  • we bought a family house (2009)!

I am a graduate, but not a big earner and never will be (my career ceiling is about 50k and I'm not there yet!), I really do understand that not everyone has the same start in life that I had, but these chats are about people like me, people who did have a shot at education and a relatively stable upbringing. And in these cases I really don't understand what the difference is between me - who now has a 5 bed house in London - and those that seem entirely disillusioned and stuck.

I don't mean to be funny about all this, I just genuinely don't get it. Surely those that wasted the opportunities must know that it was down to choice? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we live in a world of wonderful opportunity, but what I am saying is that without putting the work in from day one this was inevitable. Is it, as OP stated, my generation were "sold" a lifestyle by their parents but no one bothered to explain how much that lifestyle would "cost"!

I look at some of my friends who seem to be very hard done by. Yet when I look at the detail:

  • Maybe they weren't all that engaged at school, only realised too late that they missed the only opportunity for an education they'll ever get

  • Went to uni, but picked an "easy" course so that they didn't have to work all that hard or had no choice because they fluffed their A-levels

  • Drunk and smoked their way through uni. My sister lived at home whilst at uni in the pre-fees days. Yet still came out with 20k of debt!! Seriously, come on!

  • More interested in socialising at uni than educating, didn't get a 1st (or even a 2:1)

  • I have friends who moved out of their parents into £1000 a month accommodation. I rented a room for £60 a week! That's a deposit right there!

  • I have friends who have smoked since the age of 15. That's also a deposit in some parts of the country!

  • A younger colleague just blew 5k on a "once in a life time" trip. Fair enough, but understand that might impact on the "once in a life time" chance to buy a family house!

I could go on and on. And on. Perhaps you recognise some of those things? They are all valid choices - don't get me wrong - but just don't be surprised by the consequences of these choices. My teachers/parents made it very clear that education was valuable. I used good old fashioned common sense to work out that to afford a house and stay out of debt I had to get working and saving as soon as I was able.

Whatever, some how I managed to get a life together. Sure it meant my 20s were harder than some of my fellow Y'ers, but now I can relax. I should be mortgage free in my 40s and can start to allow some luxuries into my life when some of my peers are taking stock and wondering how they can fund a family. Part of me feels sorry for them but then I remember back to the times I said I couldn't go out because I was saving money, the times they boasted about their new cars when I was catching the bus, the continuous mentions of that trip to New York, or that week in the sun, the jokes about my M&S cardi when in their designer gear etc, etc.

And then I realise that I shouldn't be embarrassed about my achievement. I've done what most people on HPC celebrate - I've spent wisely and invested intelligently to purchase the things that I value the most. No shame in that. I've done it through honest hard work and sacrifice. So I'm sure, on that basis, you will celebrate my achievement too as we continue to poor scorn on those that got into debt irresponsibly.

And finally, I say it again, of course I am only referring to my own background. Those that had a good shot at education and a stable upbringing etc. Of course many people never had those breaks, and those that didn't and still built a life for themselves, are the people I really admire :)!

Edited by Orbital
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Fully paid up member of Gen Y here :D!

I still maintain that, for many (but not all) it came down to choice.

  • I went to a normal school, I chose to work hard

  • I chose to go to university, I supported myself by working and Student Loans

  • I spent as little as I could when others around me were chomping through their cash

  • I chose to do a degree with some value

  • I decided to pay off my student loan as soon as I could

  • I lived with my parents and later in the cheapest rental accommodation I could find

  • I didn't drink (heavily ;)!) and shunned unnecessary consumerism

  • I was as efficient with money as I could be without compromising "living life"

  • I saved as much as I could each year from the time I left uni until the second half of my 20s

  • I used this money to fund a house (circa 2006)

  • I continued to save and overpay my mortgage as much as I could

  • Got married - all bills halved!

  • Partner was also a hard worker and saver, so with double the income and equity and now with a need to upgrade...

  • I sold my first place for 15k profit (so much for HPC advice!)

  • we bought a family house (2009)!

I am a graduate, but not a big earner and never will be (my career ceiling is about 50k and I'm not there yet!), I really do understand that not everyone has the same start in life that I had, but these chats are about people like me, people who did have a shot at education and a relatively stable upbringing. And in these cases I really don't understand what the difference is between me - who now has a 5 bed house in London - and those that seem entirely disillusioned and stuck.

I don't mean to be funny about all this, I just genuinely don't get it. Surely those that wasted the opportunities must know that it was down to choice? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we live in a world of wonderful opportunity, but what I am saying is that without putting the work in from day one this was inevitable. Is it, as OP stated, my generation were "sold" a lifestyle by their parents but no one bothered to explain how much that lifestyle would "cost"!

I look at some of my friends who seem to be very hard done by. Yet when I look at the detail:

  • Maybe they weren't all that engaged at school, only realised too late that they missed the only opportunity for an education they'll ever get

  • Went to uni, but picked an "easy" course so that they didn't have to work all that hard or had no choice because they fluffed their A-levels

  • Drunk and smoked their way through uni. My sister lived at home whilst at uni in the pre-fees days. Yet still came out with 20k of debt!! Seriously, come on!

  • More interested in socialising at uni than educating, didn't get a 1st (or even a 2:1)

  • I have friends who moved out of their parents into £1000 a month accommodation. I rented a room for £60 a week! That's a deposit right there!

  • I have friends who have smoked since the age of 15. That's also a deposit in some parts of the country!

  • A younger colleague just blew 5k on a "once in a life time" trip. Fair enough, but understand that might impact on the "once in a life time" chance to buy a family house!

I could go on and on. And on. Perhaps you recognise some of those things? They are all valid choices - don't get me wrong - but just don't be surprised by the consequences of these choices. My teachers/parents made it very clear that education was valuable. I used good old fashioned common sense to work out that to afford a house and stay out of debt I had to get working and saving as soon as I was able.

Whatever, some how I managed to get a life together. Sure it meant my 20s were harder than some of my fellow Y'ers, but now I can relax. I should be mortgage free in my 40s and can start to allow some luxuries into my life when some of my peers are taking stock and wondering how they can fund a family. Part of me feels sorry for them but then I remember back to the times I said I couldn't go out because I was saving money, the times they boasted about their new cars when I was catching the bus, the continuous mentions of that trip to New York, or that week in the sun, the jokes about my M&S cardi when in their designer gear etc, etc.

And then I realise that I shouldn't be embarrassed about my achievement. I've done what most people on HPC celebrate - I've spent wisely and invested intelligently to purchase the things that I value the most. No shame in that. I've done it through honest hard work and sacrifice. So I'm sure, on that basis, you will celebrate my achievement too as we continue to poor scorn on those that got into debt irresponsibly.

And finally, I say it again, of course I am only referring to my own background. Those that had a good shot at education and a stable upbringing etc. Of course many people never had those breaks, and those that didn't and still built a life for themselves, are the people I really admire :)!

Way to go Orbital! Your story is very similar to my own. I was born in 1959. I agree it's all about making the most of each and every opportunity and not wasting time or money. It is hard I agree , but it always has been. I left home at 22 and lived in various HMOs for the next five years while I scraped up the deposit for a crappy little house in Basildon (the only area I could afford). I was earning about £3k at the time and the house cost me £28,000.

You are one of the enlightened ones, good luck to you for the future.

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Guest absolutezero

Fully paid up member of Gen Y here :D!

I still maintain that, for many (but not all) it came down to choice.

  • I went to a normal school, I chose to work hard

  • I chose to go to university, I supported myself by working and Student Loans

  • I spent as little as I could when others around me were chomping through their cash

  • I chose to do a degree with some value

  • I decided to pay off my student loan as soon as I could

  • I lived with my parents and later in the cheapest rental accommodation I could find

  • I didn't drink (heavily ;)!) and shunned unnecessary consumerism

  • I was as efficient with money as I could be without compromising "living life"

  • I saved as much as I could each year from the time I left uni until the second half of my 20s

  • I used this money to fund a house (circa 2006)

  • I continued to save and overpay my mortgage as much as I could

  • Got married - all bills halved!

  • Partner was also a hard worker and saver, so with double the income and equity and now with a need to upgrade...

  • I sold my first place for 15k profit (so much for HPC advice!)

  • we bought a family house (2009)!

I am a graduate, but not a big earner and never will be (my career ceiling is about 50k and I'm not there yet!), I really do understand that not everyone has the same start in life that I had, but these chats are about people like me, people who did have a shot at education and a relatively stable upbringing. And in these cases I really don't understand what the difference is between me - who now has a 5 bed house in London - and those that seem entirely disillusioned and stuck.

I don't mean to be funny about all this, I just genuinely don't get it. Surely those that wasted the opportunities must know that it was down to choice? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we live in a world of wonderful opportunity, but what I am saying is that without putting the work in from day one this was inevitable. Is it, as OP stated, my generation were "sold" a lifestyle by their parents but no one bothered to explain how much that lifestyle would "cost"!

I look at some of my friends who seem to be very hard done by. Yet when I look at the detail:

  • Maybe they weren't all that engaged at school, only realised too late that they missed the only opportunity for an education they'll ever get

  • Went to uni, but picked an "easy" course so that they didn't have to work all that hard or had no choice because they fluffed their A-levels

  • Drunk and smoked their way through uni. My sister lived at home whilst at uni in the pre-fees days. Yet still came out with 20k of debt!! Seriously, come on!

  • More interested in socialising at uni than educating, didn't get a 1st (or even a 2:1)

  • I have friends who moved out of their parents into £1000 a month accommodation. I rented a room for £60 a week! That's a deposit right there!

  • I have friends who have smoked since the age of 15. That's also a deposit in some parts of the country!

  • A younger colleague just blew 5k on a "once in a life time" trip. Fair enough, but understand that might impact on the "once in a life time" chance to buy a family house!

I could go on and on. And on. Perhaps you recognise some of those things? They are all valid choices - don't get me wrong - but just don't be surprised by the consequences of these choices. My teachers/parents made it very clear that education was valuable. I used good old fashioned common sense to work out that to afford a house and stay out of debt I had to get working and saving as soon as I was able.

Whatever, some how I managed to get a life together. Sure it meant my 20s were harder than some of my fellow Y'ers, but now I can relax. I should be mortgage free in my 40s and can start to allow some luxuries into my life when some of my peers are taking stock and wondering how they can fund a family. Part of me feels sorry for them but then I remember back to the times I said I couldn't go out because I was saving money, the times they boasted about their new cars when I was catching the bus, the continuous mentions of that trip to New York, or that week in the sun, the jokes about my M&S cardi when in their designer gear etc, etc.

And then I realise that I shouldn't be embarrassed about my achievement. I've done what most people on HPC celebrate - I've spent wisely and invested intelligently to purchase the things that I value the most. No shame in that. I've done it through honest hard work and sacrifice. So I'm sure, on that basis, you will celebrate my achievement too as we continue to poor scorn on those that got into debt irresponsibly.

And finally, I say it again, of course I am only referring to my own background. Those that had a good shot at education and a stable upbringing etc. Of course many people never had those breaks, and those that didn't and still built a life for themselves, are the people I really admire :)!

I agree with a lot of what you say but I still think you're mental for buying a house in 2009 (or 2006 for that matter).

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Use the internet to make sure that your generation have a voice. For example - flood newspaper 'readers comments' with comments, on a daily and weekly basis, that highlight how your generation are being robbed of the chance of buying a home (or at best can buy a starter home but not move up the ladder) by economy wrecking high house prices. Make clear that your generation will not be satisfied or quietened by 'share ownership' schemes etc. and that only big falls in property prices to bring them back to long term trend affordable levels will do the trick. Make house prices a political issue that politicians can't afford to ignore. There is still time to make it an election issue. Whilst you are (very) unlikely to be able to impact on economic fundamentals such collective action can have a very significant impact on the discourse environment about property prices and market and such discourse is a very significant driver of sentiment.

Couldn't Facebook, etc. be used to generate interest and groups to take action such as flooding newspaper 'readers comments' in order to make the general populace and, probably more importantly the p[oliticians and media, aware of the anger, disatisfaction and impact of current levels of house prices on a whole generation?

or you could put all that energy into getting a better job

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Having been born mid 60's I think it fair to say that having free University education was a huge help.

Most of my uni friends left with little or no debt. Those that were in debt had not managed to find work during the vacations. They took several years in the grim 80's to catch up with those of us who'd remained debt free. Many of us took more than a year to find a decent job.

Didn't make much difference in the medium term though - I had several friends in better paid jobs who were delighted to be able to afford their first ftb flat in 1988 - only to see their hard earned deposit destroyed in the resulting crash.

I bought my first flat in 1991 in W13 avoiding the worst of the crash.

I think hard work will take you so far but luck in timing also has a huge role to play.

Mortgages are normally a lomg term commitment so everyone should expect, and budget for, at least 5 years of economic turmoil during the repayment period.

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  • 442 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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