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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

It's winter. It's dark, cold, pissing down with rain, we're all deeply aware of the bollocksness of the recovereh, of course it's miserable.

I recommend being a bit less existential, instead trying to get laid and drunk.

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The last few years we have probably seen the peak of human wealth. (wealth = consumption of oil) The invisible slave, will probably be remembered in human history as the oil age.

Current population 6 billion

2040 population 9+ billion

Oil reserves are peaking/have peaked today.

= an exponential decent towards Mad Max

Added into the bargain, the possibility of climate change, this is a wild card, ultimately were fooked even if the climate dosent change much, but if it does it only makes the outcome worse.

Still Blighty has quite a few ace's up her sleeve, So i'm fairly bullish overall.

Happy days eh :D

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I'm massively optimistic .. The great thing about making a **** up on this scale is that it gives you a chance to change all sorts of things.

Some peoples standard of living is going to take a dive .. I was at a dinner party and we were talking about this, the consensus was that the average income in the UK will probably drop by 30-40 % either through inflation or through wage cuts . Peoples buying power and standard of living will still be way way higher than during the Second World War (When by a quirk of fate we were happiest if you look at the suicide figures) .

Yes our man from Reading may have to take a job that does not pay what he is used to earning .. he may have to retrain to do something else. But his children will still give him joy and he will get great just as much pleasure from a week in the West Country once a year than he did from his three foreign holidays. So many more things will give pleasure and make happiness.

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Is there anything to be optimistic about?

If you're alive and healthy with food to eat and friends and family to have a laugh with, there is every reason to be happy. It doesn't matter whether the Black Death, the Second World War or the Credit Crunch is raging around you.

And if you're this bloke?

You may have seen a bloke from Reading on the news recently. He's an IT project manager. Made redundant 6 months ago. Wife and two little kids. DESPERATE for a job.

He's alive. He looks healthy enough. He has his wife and kids around him. And I bet he spends half of every night with his hands folded behind his head, staring at the ceiling, worrying that he and his wife and kids will end up on the street.

If you're that bloke? Less cause for optimism. No job is a problem when it comes to food and shelter. No wonder he is worried.

My point was not that EVERYONE is 100% fine, but that many people have more to be thankful for than they sometimes realise, or are confused about what is really important in life.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

One of my defining moments was when, dressed in polythene and my grandfather's moth-eaten donkey jacket, with only my ***** and a bottle of Tesco Gin for pleasure, I managed to seduce the tongue of a stray dog with a little old salvaged kebab fat rubbed onto the old chap. As I lay there, fantasizing I was involved in a cocaine fuelled romp with a rubber clad Dawn French, I realised the importance of a sense of perspective. It's at moments like that, when you find out what kind of man you really are.

Edited by DissipatedYouthIsValuable
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On the contrary, this site makes me happy.

My wage is piss poor anyway and I'm a young fellow as it is.

Reading about those bankers and the smug, middle-class MEWers losing it all makes me warm on the inside. :) Makes me a bad person? Boo Hoo.

It's why the Wilsons threads are so popular. :)

A lot of people are going to learn their real places in the next decade.

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Understand that almost all economic activity is conducted now using money-numbers that have been borrowed into existence from very powerful, very wealthy non-producers. This means that collectively the rest of us are charged very heavily indeed for the mere existence of our means of exchange; it is on loan to us and we pay just to have the use of it.

Do not confuse this basically absurd existential cost with interest paid by one person borrowing pre-existent money from another. The utterly unnecessary cost incurred by having to borrow into existence the whole means of exchange is systemic extortion of the money users by the money issuers. There is a built-in dynamic, a tendency for wealth to flow inexorably back to the essentially unproductive money issuers.

There is both a long established property rentier class, and now above all, a financial rentier class. Both are essentially parasitic, obtaining great wealth from producers merely by monopolising essential but originally cost-free resources, respectively land and legally enforced rented money-numbers.

Imagine a system in which this is not the case, in which a universal means of exchange is self-provided, debt-free and permanently circulating , issued by the people themselves principally as a cost-free utility for their trade and industry.

Therein lies hope.

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It's winter. It's dark, cold, pissing down with rain, we're all deeply aware of the bollocksness of the recovereh, of course it's miserable.

I recommend being a bit less existential, instead trying to get laid and drunk.

Well you don't visit the Off Topic forum much then! It's all about poor old Login & Tonic and his failure to achieve one of the above, at the moment. :(

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

Understand that almost all economic activity is conducted now using money-numbers that have been borrowed into existence from very powerful, very wealthy non-producers. This means that collectively the rest of us are charged very heavily indeed for the mere existence of our means of exchange; it is on loan to us and we pay just to have the use of it.

Do not confuse this basically absurd existential cost with interest paid by one person borrowing pre-existent money from another. The utterly unnecessary cost incurred by having to borrow into existence the whole means of exchange is systemic extortion of the money users by the money issuers. There is a built-in dynamic, a tendency for wealth to flow inexorably back to the essentially unproductive money issuers.

There is both a long established property rentier class, and now above all, a financial rentier class. Both are essentially parasitic, obtaining great wealth from producers merely by monopolising essential but originally cost-free resources, respectively land and legally enforced rented money-numbers.

Imagine a system in which this is not the case, in which a universal means of exchange is self-provided, debt-free and permanently circulating , issued by the people themselves principally as a cost-free utility for their trade and industry.

Therein lies hope.

We're going to need some bloody big spears to sort that out.

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On the contrary, this site makes me happy.

My wage is piss poor anyway and I'm a young fellow as it is.

Reading about those bankers and the smug, middle-class MEWers losing it all makes me warm on the inside. :) Makes me a bad person? Boo Hoo.

It's why the Wilsons threads are so popular. :)

A lot of people are going to learn their real places in the next decade.

But the smug bankers and middle-class mewers haven't lost it all. They've basically cashed in thanks to ZIRP and gordon brown the good samaritan.

What the last few months has taught me, is that if you've got thousands sitting in the bank then your a sitting target to be on the wrong end of

the policy goal of asset price inflation. This ofcourse has been the case for the best part of the decade, but i genuinely thought on stumbling upon this site that

the MEWers and the bankers would get their haircut.....and that negative equity would atleast wreack some havoc on those i felt deserving of such a hapless outcome. Ofcourse, the manner in which it turned around opened my eyes to another thing i wouldn't have discovered were it not for this site and being more economically curious......that is, modern monetary theory. It explains much about the turnaround and the nature of central bank actions [it's ability to maintain low interest rates] and the ability of govt. to engineer recoveries via it's inherent capacity to spend..

IT also highlights the ignorance of much of the msm commentary, and some of the absurdities about govts. self-imposed imposiiton. Apparently, govt. have a limited pot of funds and using money to buy good and services for sale in the economy leads to a torturous debt burden for future generations and high inflation :rolleyes: . I used to believe that aswell before i realised it was as much a con as the housing ponzi........neither mistruths unfortunately are inescapable. Govt. will always do the wrong thing in the end and pursue the wrong goals.

Whether the whole savers are sitting ducks thing matters or not, is dependant on the individuals viewpoint......

some are quite content to rent or live with mum and dad or to bide their time on the social housing waiting list. It may even spur some to leave this godforsaken isle [ok, it's not that bad butsome of the hpc hyperbole has rubbed off] for warmer climbs and new experiences outside of new build shoeboxes and commutes on piss and skunk riddenpublic transport.

But for those whose lives revolve around the notion of being homeowners..........then it has been a hapless experience.

Edited by spivtastic
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I take it you are 21 and are planning to buy aged 22/23?

May I ask why?

Sorry for the delayed response.

Well me and the partner have been living together for 4 years now, both finished Uni and landed decent jobs. We're not after anything huge, a small cosy 2 bedroomed place near some friends would be perfect. Right now we could probably bag somewhere for about ~130k. I'm hoping to pay ~100k in 2011. We save about 15k a year and I plan on buying gold/silver with it until we purchase a house to safeguard the savings.

We've been renting for a while now, and I'm not a fan of renting. It just feels like wasted money when I could be spending the same amount per month paying some mortgage interest and have the rest belong to me in bricks & mortar. However buying a house would lose me more money if the value dropped too much. Keep in mind I'm not allowed any pets, any of my own furniture, any of my own decorations. I can't even buy a new TV or computer because the furniture here cannot accommodate it. It's just not mine.

I'm of the opinion however that house prices will crash 10-30% within the next 18-24 months and at some point in time begin a revival. What I aim to do is jump on the ladder with a smallish property, a low interest rate and a smallish mortgage. That way whatever happens I own a roof and it didn't cripple me with debt - that's the important part.

Where would I be without all the doom and gloom?

Probably looking at paying a lot more than that for a property of my own.

I do understand that it's hell for a lot of people, and I'm truly sorry for that. But to answer the original post - Yes, I have a pretty positive outlook for myself at the moment.

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One of my defining moments was when, dressed in polythene and my grandfather's moth-eaten donkey jacket, with only my ***** and a bottle of Tesco Gin for pleasure, I managed to seduce the tongue of a stray dog with a little old salvaged kebab fat rubbed onto the old chap. As I lay there, fantasizing I was involved in a cocaine fuelled romp with a rubber clad Dawn French, I realised the importance of a sense of perspective. It's at moments like that, when you find out what kind of man you really are.

:lol::lol::lol:

Quality!

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

I hope that dog doesn't bite Letd Get it Right with its infected mouth on the way back from the pub.

After that experience, I think I'm ready for a couple of years in Australia.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

Up until the early eighties there was rule that a barman did not have to serve someone that he considered to be a sexual deviant, anything.

You can get the real thing here for the price of a cask of goony, it would be more animalistic though.

I'm going to approach my Australian adventure rather like a Victorian anthropologist observing a stone age tribal culture.

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Ohh please stop it. You're married with two kids. You've been made redundant. You have a big mortgage and, because it's so big, you're never had the chance to save up enough money to see you through for a year. The only way you can earn decent money is doing what you know, what you have experience and training in, but you can't get a job at the moment because (perhaps you don't realise this but I can assure you it is true) any half decent job is attracting HUNDREDS of applications. Many companies and employment agencies are taking the first 30 CVs and binning the rest.

Being in that position is hardly a new invention, or a product of the current crisis. It happens during every boom/bust cycle, just like a hangover happens after every booze binge.

Sounds like the example person is hooked on the house that presumably came with the big mortgage, and that's trapped him into needing to earn decent money. It's unfortunate for the individuals concerned, but in truth they've probably been living beyond their means for years -- a fact that's been masked by unsustainable debt growth, both their own and others.

The "do what you enjoy" advice can't guarantee the big house + trappings, and it's not a get-out-of-jail-free card for someone currently trapped by them ... our past decisions and actions have consequences, after all.

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One of my defining moments was when, dressed in polythene and my grandfather's moth-eaten donkey jacket, with only my ***** and a bottle of Tesco Gin for pleasure, I managed to seduce the tongue of a stray dog with a little old salvaged kebab fat rubbed onto the old chap. As I lay there, fantasizing I was involved in a cocaine fuelled romp with a rubber clad Dawn French, I realised the importance of a sense of perspective. It's at moments like that, when you find out what kind of man you really are.

Ha! Post of the day! :lol:

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Guest Steve Cook

I'm curious to know if others on here feel as I do.

I find this site intensely depressing. Not because I'm a bull and I don't want to hear it or any of that nonsense. Not specifically about the housing market either - although that is a big part of it.

But the whole thing - the debt, the printing of money to make sure future generations are in it up to their necks, globalization - the fact we're competing for jobs with people where you buy a house for a week's wages here - the sense that there is a hidden force guiding the economic development of the world - to their, and only their, benefit - climate change - inevitable higher taxes and lower living standards - the gradual erosion of personal liberties - the list goes on and on and on.

I've often said this before - when I was young, when my Dad was young, in fact, looking back I would say for at least a hundred years - there was a pretty universal belief that things were getting better. Working people had a slightly bigger slice of the pie, education helped people out of the working class, conditions in factories were improving meaning that moving off the serfdom of working the land meant that (eventually) it was worth it. But now, everything seems to be going downhill. Even with New Labour's absurd idea of 50% of people going to university, education today is no guarantee of a decent future. Debt, debt and more debt is the name of the game. How can you afford it if you haven't got a decent job.

Is there anything to be optimistic about? Is there anyone on here who takes a positive and optimistic view of the future. I'd like to hear those views - if it doesn't involve Mad Max scenarios.

Sorry....

But the pessimism of many on this site is merely evidence of the gravity of the state the world is in and the gravity of what is to come. There are no easy or postive answers in my view.

Tough times ahead which ever way you look at things.

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Sounds like the example person is hooked on the house that presumably came with the big mortgage, and that's trapped him into needing to earn decent money. It's unfortunate for the individuals concerned, but in truth they've probably been living beyond their means for years -- a fact that's been masked by unsustainable debt growth, both their own and others.

Are you for real? 'Trapped him into needing to earn decent money!' What are you talking about? I saw him on the box, in his own home, and it looks pretty damn ordinary to me. Why do you assume they've been living beyond their means for years. If buying a house on a mortgage means living beyond your means, then the majority of the people in this country are living beyond their means. What a bizarre statement.

What an idiot that bloke must be. All he's got to do is sell his house, get a job on minimum wage and buy a motor caravan. Problem solved.

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