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Guest uberstuka

In Defence Of Our Rejection Letter To The Ea

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Guest uberstuka

In regard to:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13066

That one ruffled a few feathers, eh?

Here's my original thread, this will shine much light on those angered by what they read as the pointless aspects of the offending letter:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13004

It's important to remember that we had every intention of buying this house (we visited it five times) for £170K. Had the vendors and the EA accepted this offer negotiations would of entered into there final stages and WE WOULD of bought this property: there's no doubt about that. It was as a direct result of the offer been knocked back - again - that we had to rethink our finances. The offer of £170K was made to the EA acknowledging the fact that it was final and that no further negotiation would be entered into - because we were at our financial limit. Yet still the EA gets back to us trying to renegotiate the price. Stating that the vendors are in `no rush to sell', and that the `other two accepted offers are higher' than ours. All of this being repeated when we, the vendors (who stupidly told us), and the EA know that both said offers are `in principle' (both have yet to sell their property); one now has a third collapsed chain (due to FTB pull-out) to deal with, and the other is taking his property off the market due to having no one view it in over five months.

(Remember this information was given to us by the vendors themselves.)

This made us enter into a further period of contemplation, including long dialogues with both our mortgage/financial advisor and solicitor (who just happens to be a personal friend). We wanted to know if we could manage the extra £2.5K as we dearly love this property.

However, upon entering into a weeks worth of painstaking research - both local, newspapers, talking to EAs, other mortgage/financial advisors, and a net search that eventually brought me to you guys - it became very apparent, very quickly that something was afoot. That all the (what I now see as) propaganda about the current housing market was duping us into making what could of been the greatest mistake of our life.

In our defence: we are not timewasters who's sole purpose is to piss of EA's and house sellers. How utterly pointless would that be? We're a young couple TRYING to buy our first home, with the most honest of intentions. So I do take great offence by some of the comments here made. I accept that - in part - the letter is in need of amending, we don't have to get too personal. But what we have found out over the last week about the current housing market and the economic climate has angered us, greatly; as no one has advised us that buying right now is the WORST thing that we could possible do, and many of my friends are facing potential (and yes, we don't know for sure) financial ruin.

In retrospect we need to control the anger and not let it run away with us.

However, to have clear evidence of a house - that is the mirror image of what we are wanting, but in better overall condition - selling for £81K in late 2001 (Land Registery) we asked ourselves: why are we being expected to pay nearly £100K more some four years later? For what reason has this property risen to an original asking price of £186K within FOUR YEARS? If this property had increased in price in real terms we'd be looking at maybe a £5K increase? But no, a wopping £100K more! Then educating ourselves with all the relevant economic projections we understood that we'd been playing the victims for far too long.

These two particular worms have turned. And yes! We're pissed off!

Why should we waste what we have - through blood, sweat and tears - to underpin the futures of others who are obviously fleecing us (if not intentionally in the case of the vendors selling this property; for the record we have no feelings of animocity towards them whatsoever, they are vicitims, too).

So, through research we find that not only is the property realistically worth £95K (give or take £5K either way), but that it WILL drop to a more sustainable price sometime in the next 3/5 years - if not sooner. So what choice do we have? Simple: pull out and continue to rent. Save more for a higher deposit and observe the situation (and yes, maybe with a smug look on our faces in regard to the odd EA's plite).

In all honesty we feel like we've been conned. And yes, this IS naivety on our part. But how else do we learn? It's places like this that may have saved us from falling into a huge financial crevis, and for that I will be always grateful.

As for the phone-call via the letter debate. Really, is this relevant? ALWAYS put your heart-felt intentions in writing, either if you come to regret it or not. Because one of the many aspects that are lacking in modern life is INTEGRITY. Few have it. Thankfully we do!

We're sticking to our principles (no matter how out-dated they may seem).

We are not buying this property for ALL the right reasons, and I would urge all FTB's to do similar research. Our case may not be relevant to you all, but please do not buy ANYTHING for the rest of this year at the very least.

Edited by uberstuka

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In regard to:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13066

That one ruffled a few feathers, eh?

Here's my original thread, this will shine much light on those angered by what they read as the pointless aspects of the offending letter:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13004

It's important to remember that we had every intention of buying this house (we visited it five times) for £170K. Had the vendors and the EA accepted this offer negotiations would of entered into there final stages and WE WOULD of bought this property: there's no doubt about that. It was as a direct result of the offer been knocked back - again - that we had to rethink our finances. The offer of £170K was made to the EA acknowledging the fact that it was final and that no further negotiation would be entered into - because we were at our financial limit. Yet still the EA gets back to us trying to renegotiate the price. Stating that the vendors are in `no rush to sell', and that the `other two accepted offers are higher' than ours. All of this being repeated when we, the vendors (who stupidly told us), and the EA know that both said offers are `in principle' (both have yet to sell their property); one now has a third collapsed chain (due to FTB pull-out) to deal with, and the other is taking his property off the market due to having no one view it in over five months.

(Remember this information was given to us by the vendors themselves.)

This made us enter into a further period of contemplation, including long dialogues with both our mortgage/financial advisor and solicitor (who just happens to be a personal friend). We wanted to know if we could manage the extra £2.5K as we dearly love this property.

However, upon entering into a weeks worth of painstaking research - both local, newspapers, talking to EAs, other mortgage/financial advisors, and a net search that eventually brought me to you guys - it became very apparent, very quickly that something was afoot. That all the (what I now see as) propaganda about the current housing market was duping us into making what could of been the greatest mistake of our life.

In our defence: we are not timewasters who's sole purpose is to piss of EA's and house sellers. How utterly pointless would that be? We're a young couple TRYING to buy our first home, with the most honest of intentions. So I do take great offence by some of the comments here made. I accept that - in part - the letter is in need of amending, we don't have to get too personal. But what we have found out over the last week about the current housing market and the economic climate has angered us, greatly; as no one has advised us that buying right now is the WORST thing that we could possible do, and many of my friends are facing potential (and yes, we don't know for sure) financial ruin.

In retrospect we need to control the anger and not let it run away with us.

However, to have clear evidence of a house - that is the mirror image of what we are wanting, but in better overall condition - selling for £81K in late 2001 (Land Registery) we asked ourselves: why are we being expected to pay nearly £100K more some four years later? For what reason has this property risen to an original asking price of £186K within FOUR YEARS? If this property had increased in price in real terms we'd be looking at maybe a £5K increase? But no, a wopping £100K more! Then educating ourselves with all the relevant economic projections we understood that we'd been playing the victims for far too long.

These two particular worms have turned. And yes! We're pissed off!

Why should we waste what we have - through blood, sweat and tears - to underpin the futures of others who are obviously fleecing us (if not intentionally in the case of the vendors selling this property; for the record we have no feelings of animocity towards them whatsoever, they are vicitims, too).

So, through research we find that not only is the property realistically worth £95K (give or take £5K either way), but that it WILL drop to a more sustainable price sometime in the next 3/5 years - if not sooner. So what choice do we have? Simple: pull out and continue to rent. Save more for a higher deposit and observe the situation (and yes, maybe with a smug look on our faces in regard to the odd EA's plite).

In all honesty we feel like we've been conned. And yes, this IS naivety on our part. But how else do we learn? It's places like this that may have saved us from falling into a huge financial crevis, and for that I will be always grateful.

As for the phone-call via the letter debate. Really, is this relevant? ALWAYS put your heart-felt intentions in writing, either if you come to regret it or not. Because one of the many aspects that are lacking in modern life is INTEGRITY. Few have it. Thankfully we do!

We're sticking to our principles (no matter how out-dated they may seem).

We are not buying this property for ALL the right reasons, and I would urge all FTB's to do similar research. Our case may not be relevant to you all, but please do not buy ANYTHING for the rest of this year at the very least.

I personally think your letter was excellent and like many other people have said, a letter is far more powerful than a telephone call. I would never try to get my point across over the telephone because things are misheard, mis-interpreted and things get overlooked and forgotten, whereas a well structured to the point letter will certainly get the attention it deserves.

And for the people who slated your original letter? Very bitter and scared individuals who have come on HPC seeking advice and cr&pping themselves at what is being said. That thing that annoys me about these 'said' people is that as they are property owners, they think they have the god given right to tell you how wrong you have and are being and trying to show how clever they are with their paper wealth, mewing themselves to the hilt. YEAH OK THEN, PLEASE COME BACK ON HERE IN 12 MONTHS TIME AND REMIND US ALL JUST HOW CLEVER YOU WERE AGAIN ..

I hope the EA gives you a well deserved reply to your letter.

Edited by north/south divide

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I think writing a letter is fair game; a brief telephone conversation is beyond recall the next day, but a letter is a very tangible object which can be copied and forwarded.

Don't forget we read VI lies everyday in the newspapers, so what's wrong with going into 'print' ourselves and providing well argued cases to the contrary?

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we asked ourselves: why are we being expected to pay nearly £100K more some four years later? For what reason has this property risen to an original asking price of £186K within FOUR YEARS?

It's just the final stage of a credit bubble. Remember prices are set at the margin, and marginal buyers are now overstretched. The long term interest rate trend is now up. Overstretched buyers will be soon proced out of the market and the bubble will implode.

People who bought recently will be asking why they can only sell for half the money they paid. Many will suffer. Smart ones like you will laugh big time in five years time. Guaranteed.

Just a tip, a property is fairly priced when the yearly rent you could get from it exceeds your bank's base mortgage rate by approx 5%. So for example, mortgage rate 5%, plus 5% = 10% of £170,000 is £17,000/year = £1,416/month.

If the rent you could fetch is, say, £700 the property would be overpriced by over 100% and you are far better off renting.

Good luck.

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Just a tip, a property is fairly priced when the yearly rent you could get from it exceeds your bank's base mortgage rate by approx 5%. So for example, mortgage rate 5%, plus 5% = 10% of £170,000 is £17,000/year = £1,416/month.

AGREED.

Rental yields are effectively a P/E ratio and provide the clearest possible estimate of the true 'utility' value of property. Rents are set in the marketplace by 'fair value'; in other words how much renters are prepared to pay on an open market for a particular property.

Applying your logic quickly demonstrates the enormous over-valuation of UK property at the current unsustainable prices.

Edited by Red Baron

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Many Businesses in the UK today are running at a loss. If they applied the P/E ratio's they would shut up shop and go home.

In fact there are very few companies that are profitable when taking into account return on capital employed.

So ask yourself why they would continue with the organisation when they could bank the money and earn more on a saving account.

The answer is simple, we are a trading nation and that is the lifeblood of the UK. Not everything in life comes down to maximising your earnings, if it did we would most probably all leave our jobs and apply for a job in our local councils where we could get full benefits packages such as final salary pensions, flexi time (Skiver time) and work from home (more skiver time) in addtion you would be commanding above industry rates for a non job in an insignificant and irrelevent service at the taxpayers expense.

They say there is no such thing as a free lunch, except if you work for the Council or the Civil Service.

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uberstuka,

Thought your letter was clear and to the point, you gave reasons for pulling your offer, many would not bother.

Bottom line is the agents and the vendors were trying to play both ends of the game by pitching what seem like non-proceedable offers against yours which was lower, as a result the sale has fallen through, idiotic as these games were worthwhile playing a few years ago, not now.

A case of a bird in the hand is worth three in the bush or should that be thicket :lol:

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The answer is simple, we are a trading nation and that is the lifeblood of the UK

Couldn't agree more!

The companies to which you refer are trading, provide jobs, do something useful, and hopefully generate real worth for UK PLC.

What I object to is the colossal amount of the nation's 'wealth' which is so uselessly tied up in bricks and mortar. Just think what that enormous financial resource could do for the UK if it was more usefully applied to business investment.

Edited by Red Baron

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So ask yourself why they would continue with the organisation when they could bank the money and earn more on a saving account.

Many companies can and will survive losses in bad years. But no company can survive losses indefinitely, unless they are state funded.

Those currently making losses continue simply because they hope to return to profitability in the future.

Even no-profit companies have to balance their business because even they cannot afford losses indefinitely.

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Many Businesses in the UK today are running at a loss. If they applied the P/E ratio's they would shut up shop and go home.

In fact there are very few companies that are profitable when taking into account return on capital employed.

Agree, the P/E ratio is a useful measure of a company's worth *only* in the absence of any expectation of market contraction/expansion or share speculation effects.

So if a company is unlikely to expand or contract, its competitive placing is likely to be stable etc., P/E ratio is a good judge of the company's health.

As you allude, it would be unwise to judge a young company which had good growth prospects and a dearth of competitors on P/E ratio.

Similarly with houses, rent/price ratio is a good indicator of how accurately is valued if demand for rented accommodation is unlikely to change much (this is the equivalent of market expansion / contraction).

So it would be unwise to judge the value of a house on rent/price ratio if a major transport link or source of jobs was being built nearby. But in the absence of such factors (and unless you are a short term "craze" speculator hoping to make capital gain on the basis of other people's irrationality) I think rent/price is a reasonable judge of value.

frugalista

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I tried your link above but it didn't work for me.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13066

My guess is that you posted your original letter on HPC expecting much backslapping with your 'revenge against the enemy EA' letter.

For a while it worked. But I'm afraid I just saw it as a bit pointless and pathetic.

I simply gave your original letter the contempt it deserved. (well, you did ask for opinions)

Go on, give a copy of the original letter to the vendor of your dream home and I guarantee you will never own that property because the vendor will run a mile from you. The vendor will still be running from you when prices have fallen in a few years time too.

If you want to get rid of your frustration at the silly house prices then simply 'do nothing'.

Don't register with any EAs, don't visit EA websites, don't ask for a mortgage evaluation and keep renting.

If enough people did that then you would get your 'revenge'.

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My guess is that you posted your original letter on HPC expecting much backslapping with your 'revenge against the enemy EA' letter.

If enough people did that then you would get your 'revenge'.

Stop it now, please, it's getting embarrassing.

You thought you were being clever with one of your snide little digs but you've now realised what a twit it makes you look, so you have to keep it up. He's a young fella (and appears very bright and articulate) trying to do the best he can, and I say good luck to him. All you can do though is offer spiteful put downs, very sad.

You've got me intrigued now though. Where does all this anger and bitterness come from? Did you used to torture animals as a small child, or is the self-loathing something more recent?

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If you want to get rid of your frustration at the silly house prices then simply 'do nothing'.

Yep, I will go along with this argument too.

They do say that there is another, much more powerful, emotion than love or hate - it's called indifference. In other words ignore the market completely, stay away from the EAs, stop reading the property pages, simply go away and wait until sanity has been restored.

No one ever has to BUY, but plenty of people have to SELL. Throughout history that has always been the correcting factor in bubbles.

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Very bitter and scared individuals who have come on HPC seeking advice and cr&pping themselves at what is being said. That thing that annoys me about these 'said' people is that as they are property owners, they think they have the god given right to tell you how wrong you have and are being and trying to show how clever they are with their paper wealth, mewing themselves to the hilt. YEAH OK THEN, PLEASE COME BACK ON HERE IN 12 MONTHS TIME AND REMIND US ALL JUST HOW CLEVER YOU WERE AGAIN ..

north/south divide

I'm sure there are plenty of people on HPC who fit the above description perfectly.

You just don't seem to be very good at spotting them...

;)

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Guest uberstuka
I tried your link above but it didn't work for me.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13066

My guess is that you posted your original letter on HPC expecting much backslapping with your 'revenge against the enemy EA' letter.

For a while it worked. But I'm afraid I just saw it as a bit pointless and pathetic.

I simply gave your original letter the contempt it deserved. (well, you did ask for opinions)

Go on, give a copy of the original letter to the vendor of your dream home and I guarantee you will never own that property because the vendor will run a mile from you. The vendor will still be running from you when prices have fallen in a few years time too.

If you want to get rid of your frustration at the silly house prices then simply 'do nothing'.

Don't register with any EAs, don't visit EA websites, don't ask for a mortgage evaluation and keep renting.

If enough people did that then you would get your 'revenge'.

The original link has now been reposted. Try it again and then come back and rant to your hearts content. And feel secure in the knowledge that I - for one - will be giving it a very wide birth.

We disagree on fundamental issues, there is little point in opening any debate between our opposing views.

And for the record: we have no intentions of buying our `dream house' in the current market. We are prepared to let it go because of the strength of our own conviction, that what we are doing is 100% correct. There will be another house, in fact MANY more houses; just as beautiful but at a hugely reduced price.

Edited by uberstuka

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You've got me intrigued now though. Where does all this anger and bitterness come from? Did you used to torture animals as a small child, or is the self-loathing something more recent?

Will you please stop the cheap insults BOTB, I thought you said you knew what AWOOGA! meant.

When the dust settles on this thread (and I hope it will soon) you will see I have actually given some good advice to uberstuka.

My 'do nothing' advice should be on the front page of www.hpc.co.uk for chrissakes.

(OK I've been more than a little harsh in places, but I may have prevented uberstuka from posting a potentially embarrasing letter. I hope he learned something today. What have you contributed to this thread other than childish insults?)

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Guest uberstuka
Will you please stop the cheap insults BOTB, I thought you said you knew what AWOOGA! meant.

When the dust settles on this thread (and I hope it will soon) you will see I have actually given some good advice to uberstuka.

My 'do nothing' advice should be on the front page of www.hpc.co.uk for chrissakes.

(OK I've been more than a little harsh in places, but I may have prevented uberstuka from posting a potentially embarrasing letter. I hope he learned something today. What have you contributed to this thread other than childish insults?)

I'm sorry, but I really couldn't let that one lie: you actually believe that you are a purveyor of `good advice'?

Deluded as well as patronising.

For the record: I've learnt nothing from `The Paddles' posts other than how not to express opposing views whilst in debate.

I'll now retire from any future replies of his, no matter how obscene they may become.

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Agree, the P/E ratio is a useful measure of a company's worth *only* in the absence of any expectation of market contraction/expansion or share speculation effects.

The P/E ratio is always a measure of a company's worth. Do not confuse price and value.

Price and value can be out of whack temporarily, which is what the P/E and other financial ratios were born to measure.

Remember the NASDAQ bubble and the new economy? Analysts said the historical average P/E ratio meant nothing and what mattered was the potential future earnings instead. It ended in tears. History's dustbin is littered with other example of speculation.

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Will you please stop the cheap insults BOTB, I thought you said you knew what AWOOGA! meant.

insults?)

No, all of your replies to Uberstuka have been peppered with malicious digs, designed to either undermine or discourage. Go back and check if you don't believe me. And if you still don't see it, then you're an even bigger twit than I had you down for.

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Blimey

Maybe I should have stayed down the pub.

I gave my opinion on what conclusion(s) I drew from uberstukas letter.

That is what he asked for. That's what he got.

Sometimes peoples opinions can be harsh. Get used to it!

I'll now retire from any future replies of his, no matter how obscene they may become

Don't be such a drama queen uberstuka. My posts may be harsh at times (makes for good debate) but I don't think I have been obscene at any point.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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