Guest UK Debt Slave Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 WHAT????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 UK Debt Slave The council go around giving them the tilt test, then push them over if the wobble. Cretins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunK BeaR Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 What a mess they have made. A burial ground for people to show their respects now littered with nonsensical bullsh!t signs. When does this sort of stuff stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UK Debt Slave Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Turns out, this story is 3 years old It happened back in 2006 It was posted on the Old Holburn blog this morning Even so, pretty shocking http://bastardoldholborn.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Pint Princess 2 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Could be a statement about religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Is a fallen gravestone more difficult to avoid tripping over than an erect one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 WHAT????????????????? Shame It's 3 years old otherwise I would have contacted Mr Keith Small - something along the lines of "What the f*** did you think you were doing you clueless insensitive c***" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Jungle Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) How many people have been injured / killed by an unstable gravestone toppling on them, without them pushing, pulling, climbing on it or otherwise interfering with said unstable gravestone? Seriously if word leaks out the council are planning "testing" a certain cemetery a welcoming committee of relatives of the deceased should wait for them armed with baseball bats, knives, big sticks and knuckle dusters. **** OFF YOU INTERFERING VEXATIOUS BUSYBODY COONTS!!!! Edited November 19, 2009 by Concrete Jungle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 How many people have been injured / killed by an unstable gravestone toppling on them, without them pushing, pulling, climbing on it or otherwise interfering with said unstable gravestone? Not many, but it happens. More often the stone falls of its own accord. I used to be parish councillor, and sadly we had to do just this with a few grave stones. People don't realise that in many graveyards the deal is that the plot should be maintained by the family. Obv after many decades that stops happening and whoever runs the graveyard takes over by default. What usually happens is that any stones that are in danger of falling are carefully laid down, and then the council tries to trace who (if anyone) they need to talk to. I'd stress that we only ever did this with ones that were teetering, and it was away of bringing them down in one piece and safely before they fell. It's not really H&S, it's just management of old bits of stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAC67 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Shame It's 3 years old otherwise I would have contacted Mr Keith Small - something along the lines of "What the f*** did you think you were doing you clueless insensitive c***" The sensible thing to do would be to bludgeon Mr Small (yep, Napoleon complex if ever I saw one) to death, and then, when he has been buried, sneak in and topple his gravestone. Then erect a small sign saying "here lies a completely useless c**t". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Seriously if word leaks out the council are planning "testing" a certain cemetery a welcoming committee of relatives of the deceased should wait for them armed with baseball bats, knives, big sticks and knuckle dusters. **** OFF YOU INTERFERING VEXATIOUS BUSYBODY COONTS!!!! Thanks for that I'd stress that in our case it was usually the churchwarden or the parish council -it being a village - and that anyone who bothered to understand what was going on might be less aggressive towards people just trying to do the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAC67 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Not many, but it happens. More often the stone falls of its own accord. I used to be parish councillor, and sadly we had to do just this with a few grave stones. People don't realise that in many graveyards the deal is that the plot should be maintained by the family. Obv after many decades that stops happening and whoever runs the graveyard takes over by default. What usually happens is that any stones that are in danger of falling are carefully laid down, and then the council tries to trace who (if anyone) they need to talk to. I'd stress that we only ever did this with ones that were teetering, and it was away of bringing them down in one piece and safely before they fell. It's not really H&S, it's just management of old bits of stone. You better not go out into the countryside, you may find a lot of unstable rocks out there. Everything is in danger of falling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 You better not go out into the countryside, you may find a lot of unstable rocks out there. Everything is in danger of falling! So what do you suggest ? You have an ancient graveyard which is still used and with eroded, wobbly old stones on abandoned graves close to the paths and alongside family graves that are reused You could wait until they fall over and smash, which they will at some point, or you could gently and reverently lay them to the ground and try to find out whether anyone still cares enough to re-erect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAC67 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 You just answered your own question. Decay is inevitable, and those gravestones which are still being tended will probably remain upright. Like everything they will eventually fall into disrepair and indeed topple, much like civilisation itself. Let nature take it's course. I suspect the real reason is a combination of "keeping the useless in gainful employment" and prevention of some "health and safety" case after some Scouser falls over aforementioned "wobbly" stone. Yep, Scousers are the countries largest claimants for falling over stuff, usually council owned, and then claiming damages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Jungle Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Thanks for that I'd stress that in our case it was usually the churchwarden or the parish council -it being a village - and that anyone who bothered to understand what was going on might be less aggressive towards people just trying to do the right thing. I hope you cut all the trees down and made visitors to the cemetery sign a disclaimer, wear high viz vests, safety boots and a hard hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I suspect the real reason is a combination of "keeping the useless in gainful employment" and prevention of some "health and safety" case after some Scouser falls over aforementioned "wobbly" stone. In our case it was done by volunteers Yes stuff does fall down with time. I'd suggest it's more respectful in a graveyard to manage that process slightly. YMMV, but it may shock you to hear that the decisions aren't taken lightly and that the people in the village often helped out with graveyard maintenance, including lowering the teetering stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potwalloper Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 So what do you suggest ? You have an ancient graveyard which is still used and with eroded, wobbly old stones on abandoned graves close to the paths and alongside family graves that are reused You could wait until they fall over and smash, which they will at some point, or you could gently and reverently lay them to the ground and try to find out whether anyone still cares enough to re-erect them. Leave things alone. Too many busybodies try to do the right thing, when really, nothing needs to be done at all. Doing the right thing usually ends up being the wrong thing. This should be a central tennat of public life. We need a do nothing government! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkwell Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Those headstones don't look all that ancient, and they all seem to use the 'plinth' design. I'd have a word with the makers and installers. Many good headstones last 100s of years, even with subsidence. Is it another case of modernity - ie cutting corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I hope you cut all the trees down and made visitors to the cemetery sign a disclaimer, wear high viz vests, safety boots and a hard hat. Why would we do that ? We did have one of the old trees in the churchyard crowned after it dropped a f'off big branch onto the road and it transpired that the crown was rotten, but again not a decision taken lightly. In our case it was a local community trying to do the right thing and maintain the place of rest of their families. Not sure why that elicits such aggression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Remember, our taxes have gone to pay for this, including the wages legislator and the inspector as well as the manufacturing and installation of the signs etc. What a complete and pointless waste of time and resources. Edited November 19, 2009 by Traktion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Leave things alone. Too many busybodies try to do the right thing, Then they fall down anyway, on paths, on the grave behind etc. And they smash. Graveyards are important parts of village life and people get all angsty when they go to visit their loved ones and find a mess. If that's busybodying then so be it. It seems to be what the people in the village wanted - at least those who expressed a view I'd stress that this was barely a "government" thing. Think Vicar of Dibley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Remember, our taxes have gone to pay for this, including the wages legislator and the inspector as well as the manufacturing and installation of the signs etc. What a complete and pointless waste of time and resources. Not in our case. all voluntary. That's how parish councils work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevin Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 So what do you suggest ? You have an ancient graveyard which is still used and with eroded, wobbly old stones on abandoned graves close to the paths and alongside family graves that are reused You could wait until they fall over and smash, which they will at some point, or you could gently and reverently lay them to the ground and try to find out whether anyone still cares enough to re-erect them. the problem is; as soon as it comes within the scope of health and safety, a judgement has to be made. And one that is likely to massively err on the side of caution. Whilst it is designated an natural issue, then judgements don't have to be made beyond the bloomin obvious. create a job to find problems and boy will problems be found! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Volio Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 , then judgements don't have to be made beyond the bloomin obvious. The judgment is that you have a f'off big piece of stone that's probably going to fall over in the next few weeks anyway. You can let it fall over and smash or you can gently lower it to the ground and try to find out what the people who paid for it (or their family) want done. Sometimes they have the re-erected, more usually they're carefully taken to one side. create a job to find problems and boy will problems be found! well as I say, in our case it was pretty pragmatic. Maybe it's different elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I hope you cut all the trees down and made visitors to the cemetery sign a disclaimer, wear high viz vests, safety boots and a hard hat. I also hope that the pushing equipment was in calibration, and that the certificate is available for inspection. And while we are at it, what are the required limits of stability for gravestones in a publicly accessible space, and what notice is formally required to be served on the custodians of said stones, before destructive testing takes place? Or did some big bluffers from HSE just go out and shove them over willy-nilly? I can see where this takes us eventually. Formal stability requirements and planning consents, HSE risk appraisals, and CE marking BEFORE stones are erected. Insurance and annual inspections thereafter. All money for jobsworths extracted from the deceaseds estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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