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Why Should Houses Be Affordable?


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I have absolutely no intention of putting money into property - apart from a place abroad perhaps (but then probably rent and move on to new places)

In fact, the next move will be down to a smaller house. Guess I'll give bundles to my kids as well, so they can live with less anxiety than I did.

Sounds sensible, but totally at odds with your OP, which was in the style of a typical bull/EA wind up. there are very compelling reasons for a massive property crash, telling anyone otherwise is just ridiculous really? It kind of spooks me that there are sheeple out there who think property is going to "jump back up" at any given moment.

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But, my first house cost 20K. My salary was 4300 pa. Interest rates were at 12% (I think-something like that). I crapped myself as had just got married and had a kiddly on the way. But I got by (just).

Sold the house 4 years later for 22K, banked £2000 and felt really rich. Bought my next house for 32K and sold it for 45K. And so on. I was always close to the edge and worried about paying the mortgage, but managed it. Times were always hard and budgeting difficult. That's why I don't see myself as selfish. And, lets face it, when you die a big chunk goes back to the state anyway.

But you were selfish.

If your story of continual hardship is true, you sacrificed many other things because you wanted a house a bit bigger or nicer than you really should have had. Did you get full agreement regarding this life of difficult budgets from your wife? How did your kid(s) feel about the lack of spare cash? Were they equal partners in your plan or did you have constant arguments about money?

I wonder <_<

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Interesting and I suspect very common point of view. Essentially to you, securing shelter (a house and land of your own), is the ends - the whole aim of our existence, the whole reason to work hard and save. How dismal.

How about this: how about we house everyone at a basic level, at a reasonable cost, so they can go out and be productive and creative rather than fearful, resentful and shattered?

Which society would be richer as a whole - your model or one in which everyone has better things to worry about and work towards than securing basic shelter? Stretching every FTB to breaking point stunts a whole generation of potential advances and development: the misallocation of resources on a grand scale. The next generation won't thank you for it either when you are in the hospice in your final, self-satisfied days - I'd recommend you keep your thoughts to yourself then.

I've often considered this too. Meeting our basic needs amounts to next-to-nothing. Basic shelter and then be free to pursue creativity.

As an animal we can be so creative but also very destructive.

The system needs to be changed. How does one do it?

I

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But this one seems to be easier, how strange.. ;f

The last one certainly put me off property for quite a while seeing all the pain of others just handing their keys back etc

Maybe the time to buy was just after that when nobody particularly wanted to touch property.

Can understand the "can't wait" generation wanting to jump in because "prices will go up" and "its affordable".

Maybe the time is not great now but in some respects if you're young and carefree - sod it?! :\

Yes this one does seem to be easier for some reason , was thinking about that as I wrote the post that you have answered.

Last time the reason was the interest rates going up so far so quickly just after they had scrapped double miras. Maybe it felt worse for us as it was the first one we had seen . I was mid twenties so it was my age group that got badley hit . Many workmates in NE . Maybe this time the people getting hit I don't personally know. Maybe we have seen more up's and down's thtough the last 20 years maybe as the last one was my first one it was the first time I saw that life could get tough and nasty things like debt and repossession could happen . I don't think i had heard of a reop before the last crash or if I had had not taken much notice of it maybe at that age it was all such a shock.

Yes the time to buy was after the last one , and people were scarred , I bought a repo and remember work mates saying you are mad buying property.

Yes the younger will want to jump in my niece is looking at flat's for about £75,000, they look cheap to her as she saw them two years ago at £125,000 .

She is 22 , when I tell her that the same flat's were £25,000 in 1996 , that does not shock her as she was just nine then and 1996 was so long ago to her that those prices would be right in her mind due to her life span.

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Sounds sensible, but totally at odds with your OP, which was in the style of a typical bull/EA wind up. there are very compelling reasons for a massive property crash, telling anyone otherwise is just ridiculous really? It kind of spooks me that there are sheeple out there who think property is going to "jump back up" at any given moment.

I didn't mean it to sound like that. Got my tenses in a mucking fuddle.

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Interesting and I suspect very common point of view. Essentially to you, securing shelter (a house and land of your own), is the ends - the whole aim of our existence, the whole reason to work hard and save. How dismal.

How about this: how about we house everyone at a basic level, at a reasonable cost, so they can go out and be productive and creative rather than fearful, resentful and shattered?

Which society would be richer as a whole - your model or one in which everyone has better things to worry about and work towards than securing basic shelter? Stretching every FTB to breaking point stunts a whole generation of potential advances and development: the misallocation of resources on a grand scale. The next generation won't thank you for it either when you are in the hospice in your final, self-satisfied days - I'd recommend you keep your thoughts to yourself then.

Yes, or they will be rubbing fresh chillies into your nappy.

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Yes this one does seem to be easier for some reason , was thinking about that as I wrote the post that you have answered.

Yer, maybe the sh1tstorm has been delayed? Who knows.

Prices after last time in hindsight were pretty low but back then..blahblahblah really...

pity all the numbers have notched up so much more. No longer player poker with pennies..Dangerous games innit :/

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No -you're wrong.

My assets are about 2.2 mil. My mortgage is about 200K. About 75% of my assets are not in property.

What are you worth? Simple question, but I have to keep repeating it.

I'm sorry but none of the guys I know who have over a million use an "online actuary" to find out their "worth" as you put it.

You are not "worth" the amount that you can show as assets. That reveals as much about you as any of the other nonsense you have posted.

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I'm sorry but none of the guys I know who have over a million use an "online actuary" to find out their "worth" as you put it.

You are not "worth" the amount that you can show as assets. That reveals as much about you as any of the other nonsense you have posted.

So how else do you value a pension?

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Yer, maybe the sh1tstorm has been delayed? Who knows.

Prices after last time in hindsight were pretty low but back then..blahblahblah really...

pity all the numbers have notched up so much more. No longer player poker with pennies..Dangerous games innit :/

Yes ,last time in spring , summer 1988 , people said it would go tit's up and I could not see it . Then it happened and I and many others got such a shock. I remember during the downturn older people saying that it would one day come back , but by then I was so shocked I said no it never could.

Then it came back , just after the newspapers who had been trying to talk it up for so long had given up and started to tell people that it would never come back.

For years I thought it would crash again , then in about 2002 with all the boom going on I thought right maybe it will never crash again !! this is it .

Then by 2004 I woke up and smelled the coffee , I did some figures , looked around me at what was happening and how much people were borrowing . I noticed that people borrowing such large sums of money did not remember the last crash.

I thought that it would crash in 2005 , early 2005 east london market was very dead estate agent's said things were tought. Then they cut interest rates and East London got the olympics. Things took off again . However I was sure that it would pop. When I had disscusions with people and they said no it will never crash it might stop rising but it would never crash I disagreed . I said that propert like the stock market was and always will be moving if it is not going up it will not stay the same ( a soft landing that many talked about is something you get when your plane lands smoothly ) It will go down. It has been going up for so long that it will have to change direction and go down.

So maybe I was ready for this one it did not come as such a shock and I was ready and in a better financial position .

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I'm sorry but none of the guys I know who have over a million use an "online actuary" to find out their "worth" as you put it.

You are not "worth" the amount that you can show as assets. That reveals as much about you as any of the other nonsense you have posted.

Yet another example of English defeatism. Always worried about what others have, rather than making your own wealth.

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Yes ,last time in spring , summer 1988 , people said it would go tit's up and I could not see it . Then it happened and I and many others got such a shock. I remember during the downturn older people saying that it would one day come back , but by then I was so shocked I said no it never could.

Then it came back , just after the newspapers who had been trying to talk it up for so long had given up and started to tell people that it would never come back...snip... It will go down. It has been going up for so long that it will have to change direction and go down..

Good post, echoes my sentiments.

What's sad is that the British (every man, woman and child, apparently) are not obsessed with houses and ownership (as is often claimed), but rather with the price of houses. Just the price, not the actual home. It's like people who collect things, not because of love of the actual item, but for a love of having a collection.

It wouldn't seem so bad if people would say "Oh my house is now worth 20bn Zimbabwe pounds, and I love the house because of x,y,z". No, it's just talk about the price, and this is typically followed by their plans to sell it and move onto the next financially astute investment move.

I must be old fashioned. :(

QB

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Why should it be the case that first in wins?

Because you bought 30 years ago you can have a house, new generation - no house. How can that be fair?

if you decide that housing should not be speculated upon, then pretty soon you realise that very little should be for speculation. Everything that can be speculated on demands a margin and it's that margin that houses all the greed. The sooner we try a system that removes the margin the better. For all our sakes.

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More defeatist crap. Typically English.

indeed - this recession isn't really here - those young uns with engineering degrees, 20k of student debt, and no job - they're just defeatist

if they were like you they'd be rich

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indeed - this recession isn't really here - those young uns with engineering degrees, 20k of student debt, and no job - they're just defeatist

if they were like you they'd be rich

20K of debt is nothing for 3 years of post-18 education.

You sound like the World owes you a living.

If nothing else this recession is about shaking out jobs-worth and inefficiency. The current Government is tinkering and electioneering, but the shake-out will come.

I don't understand what you want? You seem to despise excessive state interference / political correctness, in the way you want to live your life, but scared of Darwinian economics. Or perhaps you want both - ie, owed a living!

You can't have one without the other.

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