sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It's a lot more like people living in the democratic republic of east germany complaining it's not really a democratic republic. Or people in the UK complaining it is not really democratic. so do I take it there is some sympathy for the argument that "it was not real communism"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Or people in the UK complaining it is not really democratic. so do I take it there is some sympathy for the argument that "it was not real communism"? No, it was real communism. It just called itself a democratic republic. This current statist collectivist tripe has done much the same. They'd call rape making love if you just lay there without fighting and let them shaft you when you said that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Or people in the UK complaining it is not really democratic. so do I take it there is some sympathy for the argument that "it was not real communism"? it has been blockaded AGAINST capital inflows - it's a non-capital society, so what should be the problem? oh sorry, it can't be real communism as it doesn't engage in capitalist trade...errr.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 No, it was real communism. It just called itself a democratic republic. This current statist collectivist tripe has done much the same. They'd call rape making love if you just lay there without fighting and let them shaft you when you said that as well. So it was real communism that is why it failed - but this is not real capitalism that is why it failed. a communist would say, the same swapping the isms around. You are as bad as each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolfonz Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 all the people who cheered in 1979 and wanted to destroy socialism, no such thing as society, hang Nelson Mandela, smash the coal workers, Bolshevism is Jewish, want a nigga for your neighbour vote Labour, privatise the housing stock, sell off the oil, the gas, we'll all live in a shareholder democracy, all own a house. now they realise theyve been screwed. that the game was about mugging off enough voters so wealth could be returned to the top 0.5% of earners. they are really really really pissed off. its why i love this site, to see them all squirming, blaming immigrants, blaming Labour (who they also voted for!), they can't bear it, they placed all their eggs in one basket and the basket has been taken and given to banks. i still can't believe it. i mean, im a full on commie/anarchist and i realised, i understood `the game`, played it, made loads of money from doing ****** all, can retire at 45, and you guys seriously believed the lies... You think Labour or Obama are `socialist`???? Are you nuts??? Oh yeah you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 it has been blockaded AGAINST capital inflows - it's a non-capital society, so what should be the problem? oh sorry, it can't be real communism as it doesn't engage in capitalist trade...errr.... we are talking about basic medical supplies to save the lives of infants for example - the US blockades these basic medical supplies - communism is not autarky. We are not talking about capital. the Cubans have more than enough resources to exchange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 So it was real communism that is why it failed - but this is not real capitalism that is why it failed. a communist would say, the same swapping the isms around. You are as bad as each other! thing is - capitalism hasn't failed, merely corrected , which is stiull starkly higher quality of life than Cuba , former E. Germany etc and doesn't require thought police but you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 So it was real communism that is why it failed - but this is not real capitalism that is why it failed. a communist would say, the same swapping the isms around. You are as bad as each other! No, what you do is define yout term "capitalism" All things which match that are capitalism. Then you define your term "communism" and the same thing applies. It was real communism, they had central planning, massive taxes etc etc, all done for the glory of the state etc it just didn't work out as the theory said it would. We actually now have a branch of communism, which is increasing over time )and will have the exact same results.) This isn't real capitalism because the state is omnipresent - capitalism is simply the allowing of property rights, free trade, the right to refuse offers etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) thing is - capitalism hasn't failed, merely corrected , which is stiull starkly higher quality of life than Cuba , former E. Germany etc and doesn't require thought police but you have the average standard of living has actually fallen since 1990 in many parts of eastern europe. The czech republic for example. Russia, it has collapsed - average life expectancy is falling to below 50 check out this vid for the disaster capitalism is bringing to Russia: http://www.channel4.com/more4/documentaries/doc-feature.jsp?id=43 Edited November 10, 2009 by sharpe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 No, what you do is define yout term "capitalism" All things which match that are capitalism. Then you define your term "communism" and the same thing applies. It was real communism, they had central planning, massive taxes etc etc, all done for the glory of the state etc it just didn't work out as the theory said it would. We actually now have a branch of communism, which is increasing over time )and will have the exact same results.) This isn't real capitalism because the state is omnipresent - capitalism is simply the allowing of property rights, free trade, the right to refuse offers etc try reading Trotsky - the state has no role in communism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 the average standard of living has actually fallen since 1990 in many parts of eastern europe. The czech republic for example. Russia, it has collapsed - average life expectancy is falling to below 50 Is there evidence to back this up? You also have to take into account that it was never a great average before either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolfonz Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 the Russian soviet system definitely failed. 100pc failed. Left nationalist governments have been much more successful and long lasting - Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, even new ones in Latin America appear more solid...Ecuador, Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua and more joining them all the time... The Atlanticist monetarist system has been failing since 1989, its high point....but it was never a system designed to benefit the whole, just to benefit the `masters of the Universe` or the `Chosen Few` (Bloomberg TV's old strapline). I work with these people every day. It's about filling your boots while you can, but with good PR... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 all the people who cheered in 1979 and wanted to destroy socialism, no such thing as society, hang Nelson Mandela, smash the coal workers, Bolshevism is Jewish, want a nigga for your neighbour vote Labour, privatise the housing stock, sell off the oil, the gas, we'll all live in a shareholder democracy, all own a house. now they realise theyve been screwed. that the game was about mugging off enough voters so wealth could be returned to the top 0.5% of earners. they are really really really pissed off. its why i love this site, to see them all squirming, blaming immigrants, blaming Labour (who they also voted for!), they can't bear it, they placed all their eggs in one basket and the basket has been taken and given to banks. i still can't believe it. i mean, im a full on commie/anarchist and i realised, i understood `the game`, played it, made loads of money from doing ****** all, can retire at 45, and you guys seriously believed the lies... You think Labour or Obama are `socialist`???? Are you nuts??? Oh yeah you are. How the hell can you be a full-on commie/anarchist? You can't be a commie and an anarchist - the two states are diametrically opposed. Maybe you're just a twit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Is there evidence to back this up? You also have to take into account that it was never a great average before either. check out the vid link: http://www.channel4.com/more4/documentaries/doc-feature.jsp?id=43 I read about the fall in the standard of living in the czech republic in the lonely planet guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest P-Diddly Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 the Russian soviet system definitely failed. 100pc failed. Left nationalist governments have been much more successful and long lasting - Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, even new ones in Latin America appear more solid...Ecuador, Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua and more joining them all the time... The Atlanticist monetarist system has been failing since 1989, its high point....but it was never a system designed to benefit the whole, just to benefit the `masters of the Universe` or the `Chosen Few` (Bloomberg TV's old strapline). I work with these people every day. It's about filling your boots while you can, but with good PR... When you're not being rude and aggressive, you're quite interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoWolves Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 the average standard of living has actually fallen since 1990 in many parts of eastern europe. The czech republic for example. Russia, it has collapsed - average life expectancy is falling to below 50 check out this vid for the disaster capitalism is bringing to Russia: http://www.channel4.com/more4/documentaries/doc-feature.jsp?id=43 These sorts of comments really make my jaw hit the floor. So its capitalism that's at fault you say, regardless of the Oligarch bear in the room? With logic like that I wonder how some people make it to work each day, let alone hold down a job. Capitalism seems in jeopardy in the west because its looking more like an oligarchy every day, with some socialism thrown in to stop the masses going on the rampage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoWolves Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Left nationalist governments have been much more successful and long lasting - Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, even new ones in Latin America appear more solid...Ecuador, Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua and more joining them all the time... I wonder if large reserves of natural resources help at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolfonz Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 commie/anarchist is not a tattoo. im not writing a dissertation. im a proper lefty, but not a centralist, an anarchist, but not a lifestyler (black, squats etc). im rude to any ***** that supports the BNP, ignores science about MMCC, writes shitty internet cliches about the nazi's being socialists and anyone who says the jews run the world secretly behind the scenes (see the Goldman doing God's work thread)...debate only legitimises their madness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolfonz Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I wonder if large reserves of natural resources help at all? Vietnam Laos and Cuba arent exactly Kuwait are they...nor are they perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyscam Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Capitalism seems in jeopardy in the west because its looking more like an oligarchy every day, with some socialism thrown in to stop the masses going on the rampage. +1 - sums it up nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest P-Diddly Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Vietnam Laos and Cuba arent exactly Kuwait are they...nor are they perfect. Laos?! Yikes!!! I was there last week. Felt like goose stepping round the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 check out the vid link: http://www.channel4.com/more4/documentaries/doc-feature.jsp?id=43 I read about the fall in the standard of living in the czech republic in the lonely planet guide. Thanks, I'll look later. I heard people going on about how bad life is in Poland. However on a trip to Krakow and surrounding area, nearly everyone looked healthy and well dressed. Yes, luxury German saloons are a rare sight (not a bad thing) but no one looked like they went without. I understand though, that visiting one tourist lead city, isn't a true reflection of an entire country. You only have to compare the Cotswolds to a North Hull council estate to realise that. To me there's little difference to Capitalism and Socialism in their extreme forms. Nearly everyone gets screwed over regardless. It's like arguing over whose 5hit tastes worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Laos?! Yikes!!! I was there last week. Felt like goose stepping round the place. I'm guessing the difference between you and CoolFonz, is that you've actually been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 These sorts of comments really make my jaw hit the floor. So its capitalism that's at fault you say, regardless of the Oligarch bear in the room? With logic like that I wonder how some people make it to work each day, let alone hold down a job. Capitalism seems in jeopardy in the west because its looking more like an oligarchy every day, with some socialism thrown in to stop the masses going on the rampage. does your jaw hit the floor when people blame communism and not the stalinist bear in the room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.C. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Just to balance out the other thread, after 30 years of wonderful Ayn Rand style lassiez-faire capitalism it is now impossible to put a roof over your head and feed yourself for most of those on lower incomes. Workers do not keep enough of the profits from their labour, the rich keep getting richer while the poor are getting poorer and being despised by the same people who refuse to pay a living wage. For the record, this collapse was caused by bankers, not minimum wage workers striking for better pay & conditions and not by feral chavs looting the country. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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