apn8keh Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Guys, Finally handed the keys back yesterday to the house we've lived in for the past 4 years. I'm meeting the letting agent for the check-out tomorrow. We've scrubbed every inch of the place clean, washed the carpets, tidied the garden, replaced the broken greenhouse glass, removed the satellite dish, washed the curtains, windows, glued the wallpaper back onto the walls and touched up any paintwork. Property has been let for approximately 8 years. The carpets are between 10 & 20 years old. Other than the previous tenants painting the walls the place hasn't been decorated for about 15 years. Bathroom & kitchen about 18 years old. None of the wooden window frames have been cared for so have completely rotted away to the extent that when it rains the plaster inside the bedroom becomes wet, hence the wallpaper peeled from the wall. As I understand it a landlord is not allowed to use your deposit to better the property, so he could only replace the carpets with old carpets. If they do deem that something needs replacing or repairing am I correct in saying that I'm entitled to see the receipt for the work if money is to be deducted from my deposit? What is considered fair wear & tear over 4 years? To my knowledge the only visible deterioration we've caused is a few extra marks on the lounge carpet (which was already heavily soiled on our arrival) , I scorched a ring into the worktop in the kitchen (the date on the kitchen cupboards is 1991) and some mildew stains around the windows. The bathroom window frame was heavily stained with mildew on our arrival, there is no extractor fan, the radiator never worked in the bathroom & the door didn't close. Add that to all the double glazing at the front of the house having horrendous secondary condensation between the panes & none of the windows having tricle vents, it was pretty difficult to prevent mildew. Do you think these are reasonable wear & tear? Do the TDS take into account the condition of the property & lenght of tenacny when making decisions re deposits? I just want to be armed with my rights tomorrow so the LA knows I won't be a push over! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Realistically, if all of the change in condition is down to fair wear and tear the LL is not allowed to charge for anything at all. If your fair wear and tear takes an item beyond its useful life, then the LL replaces it at his expense, he doesn't put in an almost worn out copy at your expense. As for repair to damage then it is usual to charge an apportioned amount which he can put towards a later complete replacement. He's perfectly entitled to do this and he wont need to show you a receipt because he wont have on. tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatkins Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Guys, Finally handed the keys back yesterday to the house we've lived in for the past 4 years. I'm meeting the letting agent for the check-out tomorrow. We've scrubbed every inch of the place clean, washed the carpets, tidied the garden, replaced the broken greenhouse glass, removed the satellite dish, washed the curtains, windows, glued the wallpaper back onto the walls and touched up any paintwork. Property has been let for approximately 8 years. The carpets are between 10 & 20 years old. Other than the previous tenants painting the walls the place hasn't been decorated for about 15 years. Bathroom & kitchen about 18 years old. None of the wooden window frames have been cared for so have completely rotted away to the extent that when it rains the plaster inside the bedroom becomes wet, hence the wallpaper peeled from the wall. As I understand it a landlord is not allowed to use your deposit to better the property, so he could only replace the carpets with old carpets. If they do deem that something needs replacing or repairing am I correct in saying that I'm entitled to see the receipt for the work if money is to be deducted from my deposit? What is considered fair wear & tear over 4 years? To my knowledge the only visible deterioration we've caused is a few extra marks on the lounge carpet (which was already heavily soiled on our arrival) , I scorched a ring into the worktop in the kitchen (the date on the kitchen cupboards is 1991) and some mildew stains around the windows. The bathroom window frame was heavily stained with mildew on our arrival, there is no extractor fan, the radiator never worked in the bathroom & the door didn't close. Add that to all the double glazing at the front of the house having horrendous secondary condensation between the panes & none of the windows having tricle vents, it was pretty difficult to prevent mildew. Do you think these are reasonable wear & tear? Do the TDS take into account the condition of the property & lenght of tenacny when making decisions re deposits? I just want to be armed with my rights tomorrow so the LA knows I won't be a push over! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatkins Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 You really need a Schedule of Dilapidations. May not be worth it depending on your security deposit. For future (if you are renting)-always take photos and lodge them with the lease. Picture tells a thousand words.....................etc. May not help here but it's always a tricky one. LL can say that some repairs were due to you not doing something (closing a window in the rain or something daft like that). Problem is he who holds the money (the LL) holds the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flopsy Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Take photos now of anything that could be contentious. Find the original copy of the inventory and check that to the current state. Make sure that the Agent signs the inventory (if they produce one on checkout) If they argue over any points, put your arguments briefly in writing and date this The reason I do all of this when I move out is because I've had to take previous LL's to the small claims court and I have used this as evidence before. If you have been renting the property for 4 years will your deposit be with the TDS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apn8keh Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 I made a 25 minute home movie of the condition of the property when we moved out! I wish I'd done one when we moved in, but we didn't have a camera then. I have the original inventory to which I made many amendments at the time. The letting agents can't have done it just before we moved in as they had all the rooms listed as painted in different colours to what they were! To be fair they did describe a lot of the paintwork & carpets as in poor condition. I hope my deposit is with the TDS as these are the agents that kept insisting we sign new ASTs every 6 months, so all the recent contracts have the page about where the deposit is lodged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 The following is NOT advice(legal or otherwise) but is just FYI: The TDS basically view the deposit as the tenants money and the LL has to prove damage or loss greater than fair wear & tear if they are to claim anything. Sounds like you don't have a detailed original Inventory which should have been signed by you at the time of check-in. Without that how, is the LL to prove any damage? If you have a dispute with the LL and the LL can't prove damage then the TDS will most likely award you the majority of the deposit or all of it. If there is a dispute, only the disputed amount of the deposit should be held back until resolution. And although helpful, contrary to popular belief photos & videos come a distant second to a signed written detailed inventory as far as the TDS adjucators I've spoken to are concerned, but be prepared to take them if the Letting Agent points any damage out to you during checkout, you should get a signed copy of the checkout report but don't sign it yourself if you disagree with it. Also fair wear & tear can vary if the LL knew there were children, pets, smokers, students etc then assesed wear & tear is greater than if someone lives alone and the LL is supposed to have covered this extra wear & tear in the greater rent that should have been charged. It is quite an involved task to accurately cost out and apportion any liability to tenant and each case is obviously different but from your description it sounds like most things were past the reasonable lifespan and so the Letting Agent would have a hard job making the case for deductions. Be interesting how you get on. Professional Independent Inventory Provider www.accord-inventories.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apn8keh Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks for the info Seasider, I'll make sure I don't sign anything I disagree with. This is easily the shabbiest house I've ever rented & the LL was not keen to carry out repairs. He left the bathroom radiator non functional, wouldn't repair the bathroom window that we couldn't shut & when we got locked inside the bathroom because the door was faulty he just pulled the catch out & filled the hole with polyfiller. The handles weren't screwed into anything because it was an eggbox door so they kept falling off! The neighbour said they've never varnished any of the wooden windows even during the 10 years they lived in the property before they let it out. There is about 2ft deep mud on the floor of the garage because rain just runs down the roof & into the back of the garage. I think he is planning on selling the property I can't wait to see what he prices it at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGuffin Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Just wanted to add: Your deposit has not been protected by the Housing Act and TDS, obviously, because your tenancy predates that. However, that does not mean you are helpless in the face of a rapacious landlord. You still have the county court system (small claims). It is more trouble than the TDS dispute reolution scheme, and it takes longer, but you can at least fight the landlord if he/she is unreasonable. Most people pre-TDS thought it was too much bother, so they often got shafted by landlords. However, the opportunity to fight for their deposit always existed pre-TDS, and is available to you now, so don't let the b****** landlord rip you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flopsy Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Still photos can sometimes be better in the small claims court as they are easy to copy and they can be numbered and referred to in number if you need to write a statement for evidence. Copies of evidence need to be sent to both sides and they may complain that they cannot play your video (some people are like that). Also the actual court room may not have a video player or anything when you come to a hearing. The Judge may not agree for you to being a laptop or portable player into the court and may not be prepared to give the time for a video to be shown (it's all low key in the small claims court). Anyway, it may all be different in your area and I certainly hope that you get your bond back! Edited November 5, 2009 by Flopsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apn8keh Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Hi Guys, I won't count my bond until it's in my hand, but the checkout went really well this morning. I'm glad I'd made loads of comments on the original inventory so they couldn't quibble as many things hadn't been repaired during the tenancy for example the ceiling was falling down in the kitchen & remained in that state for the duration of the tenancy. Apparently, landlords are expected to decorate about every 3 years so this house hadn't been touched for a lot longer than that. The LA said she had no issues with the condition & that we'd done an exemplary job of cleaning up. She said if the landlord disputed anything we should definately go to the TDS. Apparently, our deposit did get put there during one of the contract renewals. Anyhow, they've got issues to sort amongst themselves, seems the landlord has been telling lies about why he wants property back. He's told them he's moving back in, but he's actually sneaking in new tenants whilst under contract to the LA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Just wanted to add: Your deposit has not been protected by the Housing Act and TDS, obviously, because your tenancy predates that. However, that does not mean you are helpless in the face of a rapacious landlord. You still have the county court system (small claims). It is more trouble than the TDS dispute reolution scheme, and it takes longer, but you can at least fight the landlord if he/she is unreasonable. Most people pre-TDS thought it was too much bother, so they often got shafted by landlords. However, the opportunity to fight for their deposit always existed pre-TDS, and is available to you now, so don't let the b****** landlord rip you off. In theory. Doesn't help if your ex-landlady has gone back home to her native Switzerland, and you have no address. Or similar circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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