Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

£30,000 To Give Up Council Flat


Bosh
 Share

Recommended Posts

A good mate of mine lives with his wife in a 3 bed council flat in London. The area is nice but the estate itself has a poor reputation for violence and anti-social behaviour (Mainly in the past). The son has left and moved out and is now living and working abroad.

They are both desperate to buy somewhere and approached the local council.

The council have offered them £30k if they move out by March/April 2010 but that money must be used as a deposit for a home.....

From what I understand the amount will be less if it was a 2 bed and so on.....

They do not get to touch the money as it will be sent direct to solicitor on exchange/completion....

The council are desperate for council flats/houses to ease an ever growing list.....

I am well made up for him because he is a mate but concerned by the amounts being offered from the council coffers. He is absolutely stunned and said he would have taken £5k.

Is this a good policy to re-claim council homes for those more in need? It certainly works....

What say the HPC collective?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Guest P-Diddly

A good mate of mine lives with his wife in a 3 bed council flat in London. The area is nice but the estate itself has a poor reputation for violence and anti-social behaviour (Mainly in the past). The son has left and moved out and is now living and working abroad.

They are both desperate to buy somewhere and approached the local council.

The council have offered them £30k if they move out by March/April 2010 but that money must be used as a deposit for a home.....

From what I understand the amount will be less if it was a 2 bed and so on.....

They do not get to touch the money as it will be sent direct to solicitor on exchange/completion....

The council are desperate for council flats/houses to ease an ever growing list.....

I am well made up for him because he is a mate but concerned by the amounts being offered from the council coffers. He is absolutely stunned and said he would have taken £5k.

Is this a good policy to re-claim council homes for those more in need? It certainly works....

What say the HPC collective?

When's some government department going to give me a £30k for moving?

You know the answer to this Bosh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this a good policy to re-claim council homes for those more in need? It certainly works....

What say the HPC collective?

I've seen posters up about this round here (tooting, london), although the amount on the posters was nowhere near 30,000 iirc.

It seems reasonable - what are the alternatives? Either people won't move out, or you have to force them out. The former is non-productive and just leads to under-use of council accommodation, and the latter is authoritarian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that he'll still have the right to council accommodation in future (eg if the house they're helping him buy gets repo'd).

Same thing with right-to-buy. These pay-offs can't be moral unless they're a clean break settlement (maybe not then either, but at least it's something). The beneficiary shouldn't be able to come back to the trough again.

Plus a 30k gift will inflate the price of the house he buys by 30k...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..

They are both desperate to buy somewhere and approached the local council.

The council have offered them £30k if they move out by March/April 2010 but that money must be used as a deposit for a home.....

From what I understand the amount will be less if it was a 2 bed and so on.....

They do not get to touch the money as it will be sent direct to solicitor on exchange/completion....

The council are desperate for council flats/houses to ease an ever growing list.....

Astonishing! Where is the 30k coming from - is it magic money that will add to the council's debts? Or being diverted from other services? Either way it will fuel the housing market, which is a bad thing as it should be left to fall to a sustainable level.

And why have they got an ever growing list? Is the 30k offer political expediency to solve a growing problem, and one that shoves a 30k debt onto future taxpayers?

To put it in context though, how much would they need to spend to get a 3 bed place in the area, and does the 30k have to be spent in the borough? They could buy a 3 bed terrace 'oop north' for <100k so 30k would be a big enough dep to get them a mortgage.

edit for sp & to add 'Ah, it's in London?'

Edited by newp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen posters up about this round here (tooting, london), although the amount on the posters was nowhere near 30,000 iirc.

It seems reasonable - what are the alternatives? Either people won't move out, or you have to force them out. The former is non-productive and just leads to under-use of council accommodation, and the latter is authoritarian.

Council accommodation is authoritarian by nature (it's subsidised by taxation, and theoretically based on need).

If needs change, so must the housing allocation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Astonishing! Where is the 30k coming from - is it magic money that will add to the council's debts? Or being diverted from other services? Either way it will fuel the housing market, which is a bad thing as it should be left to fall to a sustainable level.

And why have they got an ever growing list? Is the 30k offer political expediency to solve a growing problem, and one that shoves a 30k debt onto future taxpayers?

To put it in context though, how much would they need to spend to get a 3 bed place in the area, and does the 30k have to be spent in the borough? They could buy a 3 bed terrace 'oop north' for <100k so 30k would be a big enough dep to get them a mortgage.

edit for sp & to add 'Ah, it's in London?'

It's classic accountant logic:

'Well, we could deal with the chronic shortage of council housing by building plenty of new, decent quality units, or we could save money by paying people to move out of them..'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest P-Diddly

Astonishing! Where is the 30k coming from - is it magic money that will add to the council's debts? Or being diverted from other services? Either way it will fuel the housing market, which is a bad thing as it should be left to fall to a sustainable level.

And why have they got an ever growing list? Is the 30k offer political expediency to solve a growing problem, and one that shove's a 30k debt onto future taxpayers?

To put it in context though, how much would they need to spend to get a 3 bed place in the area, and does the 30k have to be spent in the borough? They could buy a 3 bed terrace 'oop north' for <100k so 30k would be a big enough dep to get them a mortgage.

What newp said.

This 'give money' culture is bizarre. To give you must take. In giving, you inflate, costing others who don't get given less of a chance with their hard earned.

I find it astonishing.

Edited by P-Diddly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Council accommodation is authoritarian by nature (it's subsidised by taxation, and theoretically based on need).

If needs change, so must the housing allocation.

You may well be right - I was more thinking what's on offer around here, which is more "we'll give you 3,000 to help with moving/etc to move out of your 3-bed council flat to a 1-bed council flat now that your kids have left home" afaict.

30,000 does seem a hell of a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What say the HPC collective?

All of this beggars belief. The more I see on here, the more I get exasperated.

£30k to move to a smaller gaff!!

So what happens when he has a family, he gets the right for a bigger house/flat!! So gets moved again (albiet with a delay) back into a bigger place. In the short term gets to spunk £30k on plasma, merc and designer clobber (no offence Bosh, but your mate might not be like that but plenty will)....

I saw something from Dr Bubb re twit Brown going after the Chav vote. Lets be fair if this sort of thing goes on, who can blame certain parts of society right royally taking the pi5s nicely helped by our friggging civil servants on their fixed salary pensions etc etc.

Rant over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All of this beggars belief. The more I see on here, the more I get exasperated.

£30k to move to a smaller gaff!!

So what happens when he has a family, he gets the right for a bigger house/flat!! So gets moved again (albiet with a delay) back into a bigger place. In the short term gets to spunk £30k on plasma, merc and designer clobber (no offence Bosh, but your mate might not be like that but plenty will)....

I saw something from Dr Bubb re twit Brown going after the Chav vote. Lets be fair if this sort of thing goes on, who can blame certain parts of society right royally taking the pi5s nicely helped by our friggging civil servants on their fixed salary pensions etc etc.

Rant over.

To reply and to answer some of the other questions..... He is married, they have one son who has now grown up and is abroad. They have been saving for the last 6 years for a deposit to finally own a home of there own. They both work full time and he also works at weekends to add towards the deposit. They were shocked when they found out about this scheme and would be absolutely nuts not to take advantage.

They are sensible, hard working people. The son did well in his studies and went through university (They funded him) and has landed himself a great job to begin his career..... They have wanted out of this estate for years...

They do not and never have claimed benefits but live amongst many who do.. they are not chavs but live among many who are.

They plan to move out to the suburbs where you can get 2/3 bed house with a garden for about 220k..... (Worcester park, New Malden etc)... They are mid to late 40`s and no more children are planned :lol:

I have listed enough details, but in reality the point even they find incredible is that they will be (As they see it) gifted £30k to give the flat back.

As far as I am aware they are off the books and have nothing to do with the council and will not be able to jump back in if they get repo`d.

They can move anywhere in the uk and do not have to stay in the same borough.... As long as the money goes towards the purchase of a home... No exceptions

It is great for them but maybe not so great for council tax payers in that area....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A good mate of mine lives with his wife in a 3 bed council flat in London. The area is nice but the estate itself has a poor reputation for violence and anti-social behaviour (Mainly in the past). The son has left and moved out and is now living and working abroad.

They are both desperate to buy somewhere and approached the local council.

The council have offered them £30k if they move out by March/April 2010 but that money must be used as a deposit for a home.....

From what I understand the amount will be less if it was a 2 bed and so on.....

They do not get to touch the money as it will be sent direct to solicitor on exchange/completion....

The council are desperate for council flats/houses to ease an ever growing list.....

I am well made up for him because he is a mate but concerned by the amounts being offered from the council coffers. He is absolutely stunned and said he would have taken £5k.

Is this a good policy to re-claim council homes for those more in need? It certainly works....

What say the HPC collective?

I think this is all wrong.... we shouldn't be giving current council home tenants £30,000. What we should be doing ( if there isn't enough social housing) is either using the £30,000 to bring unused stock back into use or building social housing.... social housing thats owned by the state or by a housing trust. I also think we should have new plans to allocate housing more efficiently and if that means turfing people out of homes they have outgrown then so be it. ( I am not personally won over by the whole "but its my home argument" in reallity council tenants are provided with housing at a cut price and often for free.. its down to the state to decide which home they should live in when ( within reason of course).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fundamental problem here.

Why were a couple with one child given a 3 bed flat in the first place, when a two bed would have done the job.

When thier child left they should have been obliged to move to a one bed.

That flat could probably house family of 5 or 6, who are currently being put up in bed and breakfast somewhere at tax payers expense. With the other 'extra' benefits this family are claiming £30k is gonna be eaten up pretty quick.

Council housing should be seen as a short term let for all.

If these people can afford to put thier child through Uni and now save for a deposit for a house, they could afford to rent in the private sector.

Sorry, OP, they may be very nice people but still amount to leeching spongers, you just can't see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah right. You describe them in much the same way as Gordon Brown does - "hard working family".

Answer this riddle:

How can a couple with 3 jobs between them fund their son's education, save for a home of their own, while being subsidised by taxpayers to stay in a 3-bedroom house and then have the audacity to take £30k more?

Mind-boggling hypocricy and another reason our once fine country is fecked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fundamental problem here.

Why were a couple with one child given a 3 bed flat in the first place, when a two bed would have done the job.

When thier child left they should have been obliged to move to a one bed.

That flat could probably house family of 5 or 6, who are currently being put up in bed and breakfast somewhere at tax payers expense. With the other 'extra' benefits this family are claiming £30k is gonna be eaten up pretty quick.

Council housing should be seen as a short term let for all.

If these people can afford to put thier child through Uni and now save for a deposit for a house, they could afford to rent in the private sector.

Sorry, OP, they may be very nice people but still amount to leeching spongers, you just can't see it.

The only points to answer are highlighted....

I think flats are handed down through families and parents used to live there (With them)..

With regards the son and University. He is a super chap and avoided joining in with the local gangs. If I were in that position I would have done the same... Helped my child and then, when I have enough deposit looked to get out....

This estate has been on national news twice for one racist and one child murder......

For your last quote and judgement.. You are indeed a complete coc-k and the best and decent part of you obviously dribbled down your fathers leg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 people on this thread have said that council housing is subsidised. Any evidence to support this claim?

The fact is that councils pay a 'negative subsidy', and in case of this LA half of our rents are paid to central government, those tenants that pay their own rent are being milked by the government. Because council tenantsare not having to pay bank interest this appears to be a subsidy to those who believe that debt is normal.

If tenants are getting HB you could suggest that this is a subsidy but of course BTL landlords are getting far greater 'subsidy' from their HB tenants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To get off the fence..... My view...

Forget the individuals for a minute... It`s the system and it`s wrong. Council flats should indeed benefit those in need and should not be allowed to pass down the family tree willy nilly. People should be means tested and if unable to move out then rent should charged according to income.

2 people living in a 3 bed flat is wrong and they should be encouraged to move to something that suits....

They would be idiots not to take the money and I would imagine most on HPC would accept this offer if they lived in a rough council estate. The blame is not with them IMO.....

£30,000 is a huge amount of money and will no doubt come from local council tax. It`s not fair on tax payers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To get off the fence..... My view...

Forget the individuals for a minute... It`s the system and it`s wrong. Council flats should indeed benefit those in need and should not be allowed to pass down the family tree willy nilly. People should be means tested and if unable to move out then rent should charged according to income.

2 people living in a 3 bed flat is wrong and they should be encouraged to move to something that suits....

They would be idiots not to take the money and I would imagine most on HPC would accept this offer if they lived in a rough council estate. The blame is not with them IMO.....

£30,000 is a huge amount of money and will no doubt come from local council tax. It`s not fair on tax payers.

My twopence.

If it was offered to me under these circumstances I'd take it.

It isn't fair on local and national tax payers.

It has been going on for years, this will piss your friends off - In 1989 my aunt was given £30 k to move out of a 3 bed council house (so much for inflation).

I do however believe that such housing should be available on need and if, for instance, a couple have a 3 bed council house and no children they should be moved to a 1 bed house etc. but this isn't your friends fault but the system.

Wish them good luck from me, especially if they're looking to move to Worcester Park.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 people on this thread have said that council housing is subsidised. Any evidence to support this claim?

The fact is that councils pay a 'negative subsidy', and in case of this LA half of our rents are paid to central government, those tenants that pay their own rent are being milked by the government. Because council tenantsare not having to pay bank interest this appears to be a subsidy to those who believe that debt is normal.

If tenants are getting HB you could suggest that this is a subsidy but of course BTL landlords are getting far greater 'subsidy' from their HB tenants.

Agreed on the HB ... it applies to both sectors.

Debt and interest: Central government holds debt corresponding to the housing assets (the money to build them was/is borrowed) so interest has to be paid. The government can borrow more cheaply than the private sector of course ... and this represents a subsidy from the taxpayer (whose good faith and credit enables the cheap borrowing, and is not in limitless supply) to the beneficiaries of that borrowing (i.e. council tenants in this case). I mean, people with mortgages can't generally borrow at central-government rates.

If this is true it implies that there is a subsidy (if not, council tenants have nothing to worry about, as rental levels are already equalised).

Subsidy is also implicit in the quality of tenure offered by the wider community to council tenants -- what rent would a private landlord charge, in exchange for a tenure so watertight that he ends up offering 30k to get rid? The fact that there's a waiting list for council rental, and not for private rental, is telling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only points to answer are highlighted....

I think flats are handed down through families and parents used to live there (With them)..

With regards the son and University. He is a super chap and avoided joining in with the local gangs. If I were in that position I would have done the same... Helped my child and then, when I have enough deposit looked to get out....

This estate has been on national news twice for one racist and one child murder......

For your last quote and judgement.. You are indeed a complete coc-k and the best and decent part of you obviously dribbled down your fathers leg.

Oooo ! Obviously hit a nerve there then.

If you don't like the answer don't ask the question. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed on the HB ... it applies to both sectors.

Debt and interest: Central government holds debt corresponding to the housing assets (the money to build them was/is borrowed) so interest has to be paid. The government can borrow more cheaply than the private sector of course ... and this represents a subsidy from the taxpayer (whose good faith and credit enables the cheap borrowing, and is not in limitless supply) to the beneficiaries of that borrowing (i.e. council tenants in this case). I mean, people with mortgages can't generally borrow at central-government rates.

If this is true it implies that there is a subsidy (if not, council tenants have nothing to worry about, as rental levels are already equalised).

Subsidy is also implicit in the quality of tenure offered by the wider community to council tenants -- what rent would a private landlord charge, in exchange for a tenure so watertight that he ends up offering 30k to get rid? The fact that there's a waiting list for council rental, and not for private rental, is telling.

Sounds like you've just done a few googles and that's all you can come up with.

Historic debt related to council housing is said by the government to be 17 bn but considering the amount of money paid every year to the government this has actually been paid many times over. 75% of right to buy receipts go to central government coffers for example. Strangely you speak as if large numbers of council houses have been built recently but you seem to have forgotten that the average council house is around 40 years old and would have cost 1500 or 2,000 at most. A few year rent would have quickly paid off the original build cost. LAs are currently negotiating with the government on the 17bn issue.

"Implicit subsudy"!? Don't talk such shi t. We all know what subsidised means.

Renting a council house was easy in the early 80s, at any one time a large number were empty. The shortage of housing was deliberatly created by the government of the time (property owning democracy and all that) and continued by new Lab. Councils offering 30k is a symtom of this, it's cheaper than paying for a year or two of B&B.

Build more council houses and the 30k will disappear pretty damn quick. 'The wider community' has benefited from the improving property market for 30 years.....they should be grateful!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest P-Diddly

Sounds like you've just done a few googles and that's all you can come up with.

Historic debt related to council housing is said by the government to be 17 bn but considering the amount of money paid every year to the government this has actually been paid many times over. 75% of right to buy receipts go to central government coffers for example. Strangely you speak as if large numbers of council houses have been built recently but you seem to have forgotten that the average council house is around 40 years old and would have cost 1500 or 2,000 at most. A few year rent would have quickly paid off the original build cost. LAs are currently negotiating with the government on the 17bn issue.

"Implicit subsudy"!? Don't talk such shi t. We all know what subsidised means.

Renting a council house was easy in the early 80s, at any one time a large number were empty. The shortage of housing was deliberatly created by the government of the time (property owning democracy and all that) and continued by new Lab. Councils offering 30k is a symtom of this, it's cheaper than paying for a year or two of B&B.

Build more council houses and the 30k will disappear pretty damn quick. 'The wider community' has benefited from the improving property market for 30 years.....they should be grateful!

Land price accepted (make use of government land?) I reckon £30k or so would likely build a decent sized well built pre-fab (no, not some 'orrible asbestos ridden box of old, prefab because it's better quality and more efficient).

Trouble is, if there's already 1,000,000 empty dwellings and still high prices ( :huh: ) . . . .

It's all so screwed up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.