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Public Sector Workers Get Pay Rises Twice The Rate Of Private Sector Workers


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err no, I think that is the entire point of the above debate from the private sector's side, there are no particular compensations right now in most private sector positions

Exactly...right now. Everyone makes a choice of whether they work in public or private sector, so each to their own to be honest.

Im a public sector worker, but im a senior nurse so not exactly the mandarin you guys are digging at. I earn an okay salary, as ive been in the job for a few years but i've never begrudged private sector salaries in the past or bonuses etc as i know i chose my job.

This just gets stirred up, probably with the pushing of certain stats to the press by government press officers when things are tough and public sector spending is primed for getting cut.....divide and conquer as the saying goes.

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exactly.....................all depends on what you do!

I think you've failed to address my point regarding the majority

saying that a small minority of very well paid private sector workers somehow invalidates the general case is plain absurd

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Guest absolutezero

OK, you want people to take you on.

Can I (genuinely) ask you

a) what role you do - and what do you see as the equivalent in the private sector that you would be doing - and how much overtime (unpaid) you have to do each week)

b ) how experienced you are/your age

c) what you get paid gross (give or take - a band is near enough), and remember to add in a third on top for your final salary pension if you get one

d) how much you think would a fair wage for your job

e) whether you think you will be able to afford to retire at 55ish and how much pension you think you'll get at that time....

a) School teacher. Same in private sector. As much as it takes to do the job.

b ) 8 years' experience. Aged 29.

c) £33,411. Pension is 1/80 of final salary for each year of service to be taken at 60, but I'll leave at 55 and not claim pension til 60. So 34 years' service, so about £14,000 pension p.a. from 60.

d) No complaints about my pay level.

e) See c) and I'll do some work and live off investments until 60.

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Increase in private sector earnings (including bonuses, SA) since Jan 2000: 39.3% [ONS series LNKY]

Increase in public sector earnings (including bonuses, SA) since Jan 2000: 45.3% [ONS series LNNJ]

Also, from the 2008 ONS ASHE summary:

The percentage difference between the median level of full-time earnings in the public sector (£523 per week in April 2008) and the private sector (£460 per week) narrowed over the year to April 2008, following annual increases of 4.3 per cent and 4.6 per cent respectively.”

Sounds to me like the Unison guy was playing footloose with statistics.

Maybe but if you have a large number of poorly paid folk and a small number of very well paid folk in the public sector while earnings in the private sector are more of a normal distribution it is still possible that the median pay in the public sector is higher but a larger percentage earn less than the median level (I think - I always hated stats)

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We used to laugh in the UK when we read about how the jobs in France were all better, on average, than the private sector. Now I despair when I find it is true in the UK.

The duty of the government is to get the best for the taxpayer.

And as a general rule of thumb for the Public sector, they should either,

1) Earn less on average

2) Have worse 'other' benefit (normally pensions)

3) Have worse job security.

At least one of the three above has to be true if you are protecting the private sector taxpayer.

Now alas, all of these things are better in the public sector, on average.

This is a terrible message to be sending to those still in education. So instead of doing something productive, why not do something that leeches off of those producing things of value, and work in the public sector?

I wonder if elected, whether the Tories will grasp the nettle and do something about this? We need elongate pay freezes, an end to defined public sector pensions. Cant see how they can make job security less attractive mind you.

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Maybe but if you have a large number of poorly paid folk and a small number of very well paid folk in the public sector while earnings in the private sector are more of a normal distribution it is still possible that the median pay in the public sector is higher but a larger percentage earn less than the median level (I think - I always hated stats)

I suspect you are confusing this with the mean, which does suffer from these skews; the definition of median is that it is the half-way point, distribution wise, so by definition 50% earn more, 50% earn less, than the median, irespective of the shape of the distribution

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Guest absolutezero

We used to laugh in the UK when we read about how the jobs in France were all better, on average, than the private sector. Now I despair when I find it is true in the UK.

The duty of the government is to get the best for the taxpayer.

And as a general rule of thumb for the Public sector, they should either,

1) Earn less on average

2) Have worse 'other' benefit (normally pensions)

3) Have worse job security.

At least one of the three above has to be true if you are protecting the private sector taxpayer.

Now alas, all of these things are better in the public sector, on average.

This is a terrible message to be sending to those still in education. So instead of doing something productive, why not do something that leeches off of those producing things of value, and work in the public sector?

I wonder if elected, whether the Tories will grasp the nettle and do something about this? We need elongate pay freezes, an end to defined public sector pensions. Cant see how they can make job security less attractive mind you.

What a load of toss.

Why SHOULD public sector workers have a shitty deal?

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a) School teacher. Same in private sector. As much as it takes to do the job.

b ) 8 years' experience. Aged 29.

c) £33,411. Pension is 1/80 of final salary for each year of service to be taken at 60, but I'll leave at 55 and not claim pension til 60. So 34 years' service, so about £14,000 pension p.a. from 60.

d) No complaints about my pay level.

e) See c) and I'll do some work and live off investments until 60.

do you mind me asking, have you counted your PGCE as teaching experience ? Or was it more like studying an apprenticeship ? And does the £33K include the slary up

back of a fag packet, your pension total would be about £450K to buy 14K a year. or about 750 a month. Are you also going to get a lump sum ? [like the police etc] That needs pricing in too. If you did then your wages are about 24K a year as a 7-8 year qualified teacher - is that right ?

[and thank you for the honesty....]

Edited by Rachman
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What a load of toss.

Why SHOULD public sector workers have a shitty deal?

I agree with you (altho I think the chap you are replying to may have been being ironic)

I think the move by the tories towards abandoning national public sector pay deals and having locally competitive public sector salaries decided by their own local senior management makes most sense - the jobs market will apply the same to public and private sector

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We used to laugh in the UK when we read about how the jobs in France were all better, on average, than the private sector. Now I despair when I find it is true in the UK.

The duty of the government is to get the best for the taxpayer.

And as a general rule of thumb for the Public sector, they should either,

1) Earn less on average

2) Have worse 'other' benefit (normally pensions)

3) Have worse job security.

At least one of the three above has to be true if you are protecting the private sector taxpayer.

Now alas, all of these things are better in the public sector, on average.

This is a terrible message to be sending to those still in education. So instead of doing something productive, why not do something that leeches off of those producing things of value, and work in the public sector?

I wonder if elected, whether the Tories will grasp the nettle and do something about this? We need elongate pay freezes, an end to defined public sector pensions. Cant see how they can make job security less attractive mind you.

So you think educating your offspring , treating you when you are ill, ensuring the rule of law and the security of our country are not productive and those working in these sectors are simply 'leeching' of those who work in the private sector do you? And exactly what do you do in the provate sector which is so more 'productive' to society?

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Guest absolutezero

do you mind me asking, have you counted your PGCE as teaching experience ? Or was it more like studying an apprenticeship ? And does the £33K include the slary up

back of a fag packet, your pension total would be about £450K to buy 14K a year. or about 750 a month. Are you also going to get a lump sum ? [like the police etc] That needs pricing in too. If you did then your wages are about 24K a year as a 7-8 year qualified teacher - is that right ?

I didn't count the PGCE, no.

The £33k is my current salary. started on £17,595 back in the day.

There is a lump sum. Not sure how that works.

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Guest absolutezero

I agree with you (altho I think the chap you are replying to may have been being ironic)

I think the move by the tories towards abandoning national public sector pay deals and having locally competitive public sector salaries decided by their own local senior management makes most sense - the jobs market will apply the same to public and private sector

Bring it on!

Properly qualified physics teachers are as rare as hen's teeth!

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Guest absolutezero

perhaps he/she is a banker, estate agent, property developer, BTL landlord.................the list could go on and on lol!

All very valuable private sector wealth generators, I am sure you will agree....

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So you think educating your offspring , treating you when you are ill, ensuring the rule of law and the security of our country are not productive and those working in these sectors are simply 'leeching' of those who work in the private sector do you? And exactly what do you do in the provate sector which is so more 'productive' to society?

perhaps he/she is a banker, estate agent, property developer, BTL landlord.................the list could go on and on lol!

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I didn't count the PGCE, no.

The £33k is my current salary. started on £17,595 back in the day.

There is a lump sum. Not sure how that works.

so ,give or take, you're on £40K a year at 29. Now ask the private sector workers - let's say junior management people or supermarket managers - are they on that ? They are certainly not on more than that, put it that way.....

I am private sector - my parents are both expublic sector - they got an even better deal and could effectively retire at 50 and do what they like.... - baby boomers as well...... I am having to work harder for the same results......

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so ,give or take, you're on £40K a year at 29. Now ask the private sector workers - let's say junior management people or supermarket managers - are they on that ? They are certainly not on more than that, put it that way.....

I am private sector - my parents are both expublic sector - they got an even better deal and could effectively retire at 50 and do what they like.... - baby boomers as well...... I am having to work harder for the same results......

There are more highly qualified people working in the public sector per 1000 staff than there are in the private sector, so I would expect higher median wages in the public sector.

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Maybe but if you have a large number of poorly paid folk and a small number of very well paid folk in the public sector while earnings in the private sector are more of a normal distribution it is still possible that the median pay in the public sector is higher but a larger percentage earn less than the median level (I think - I always hated stats)

Nope, don't think so.

wagesASHE08.gif

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What a load of toss.

Why SHOULD public sector workers have a shitty deal?

Well, well, well 'Cos They Should' thats why!

Makes those spending too much time on this forum, instead of sorting out thier own lives, feel better.

They haven't hoisted in the fact you get paid what your worth and if you play the system right, a bit more.

Public, Private, Public, Private, who gives a shit, YOU chose your job, you are free to chop and change as you please, as I do!

Unless of course you are really being paid more than you believe your worth and the words JOB INTERVIEW fill you with dread, then you sit tight, hoping like hell no one realises and fill up your time gobbing off on internet forums.

However, if you are good at what you do, have a good work ethic and arn't a too scared to take a chance, you can really make working for a living quite fun, overall.

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I thought i join this debate.............

I consider myself well paid for my job in the public sector with a good pension.

I earn approx 93K per year and will have a pension of approx 50k a year by the time I reach 60.

I’m also self employed doing much the same work as I do in public sector, but spending about 25% of the time (40 hrs public, 10 hrs private). I consider myself very well paid for the job I do and the hours I work. My profit after deductions are approx 90k year, of which I put 30k in a private pension.

Each sector has its own advantages and disadvantages-all depends on what you do!

By the time you retire your £50,000 per year, will just pay you grocery bill of a grand a week.

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There are more highly qualified people working in the public sector per 1000 staff than there are in the private sector, so I would expect higher median wages in the public sector.

You've tried that one before and when I challenged you you couldn't support it. Have you got any evidence now?

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Guest absolutezero

Sorry but you seem to be basing your pension on your current salary, are you not expecting any more pay rises during your next 26 years service?

I'll probably get another £3,000 p.a. in today's money over the next few years.

Not interested in promotion or anything like that so in the grand scheme of things, no I'm not expecting any more pay rises.

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c) £33,411. Pension is 1/80 of final salary for each year of service to be taken at 60, but I'll leave at 55 and not claim pension til 60. So 34 years' service, so about £14,000 pension p.a. from 60.

Sorry but you seem to be basing your pension on your current salary, are you not expecting any more pay rises during your next 26 years service?

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