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This Country Is Really Starting To Suck


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I think this is true. I also think jealousy comes into it, because deep down they would love to escape and get a better standard of living abroad. This in part I think contributes to the image of America these days over here, people slag the country off because of their envy of the country and its standard of living.

Standards of living are higher in the US and not everyone is braindead (although the mainstream media is shocking). I was lucky, I lived in Washington DC where there is a lot of intelligence, culture and even humour (although not as we know it, Scotty). I agree, people here love to slag the US off but would also love to live the lifestyle without the crapness that we think is normal.

Most of the talibs, mullahs, French, communists and other assorted woebegones and declared enemies of all things US are totally hypocritical in a similar way. I hate hypocrisy and it is a shame we Brits seems to be taking the same approach.

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:) Hey, I never said homeless would not be able to do his job!...

Homeless I think Eastern Europe is a pretty good idea potentially...it is now the 'new' new world in many ways, where you can probably do very well if prepared to work hard....unfortunately that also means that it is probably bloody cut-throat, and not a place to try and get ahead if you are faint-hearted. But if you have the balls, then go for it! Your house money will go unbelievably far there.

An environment like that (probably hugely over-romanticising it but hey) would really get the juices going....imagine feeling like the money you were earning was going to stay yours (flat taxes in many Eastern European countries), and not into the nuLabour social engineering project. Hard work is so much easier (in fact desirable) when you know you are going to be properly rewarded. For many people including obviously homeless the UK has become a very demotivating place. Chavs on one side, nulabour tax and spenders next to you and unfeasible, unreachable, obscene wealth above! Welcome to Great Britain!

Not all bad though. :P

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:) Hey, I never said homeless would not be able to do his job!...

Engineers in France, Germany and even the US are highly literate, are paid better than their UK counterparts, and are generally better than those UK engineers (sadly the majority) who are non-literate. In my limited experience.

Homeless may or may not be able to do his job. He could do it better if he could use written communication more effectively.

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:) Hey, I never said homeless would not be able to do his job!...

Homeless I think Eastern Europe is a pretty good idea potentially...it is now the 'new' new world in many ways, where you can probably do very well if prepared to work hard....unfortunately that also means that it is probably bloody cut-throat, and not a place to try and get ahead if you are faint-hearted. But if you have the balls, then go for it! Your house money will go unbelievably far there.

An environment like that (probably hugely over-romanticising it but hey) would really get the juices going....imagine feeling like the money you were earning was going to stay yours (flat taxes in many Eastern European countries), and not into the nuLabour social engineering project. Hard work is so much easier (in fact desirable) when you know you are going to be properly rewarded. For many people including obviously homeless the UK has become a very demotivating place. Chavs on one side, nulabour tax and spenders next to you and unfeasible, unreachable, obscene wealth above! Welcome to Great Britain!

Not all bad though. :P

Homeless, I know we have disagreed on a few points before, but I would tend to agree with you. As an engineer in this country you simply are not valued. In Germany, engineers are held in equal esteem with doctors, vets and dare I say it... those of the legal profession, which, for my own reasons, believe are destroying this nation from the root. I also cannot spell. Do I care?

No. Ask me to figure the vibrational properties of a turbine blade, bridge or general structure, given a fag packet and a pen I will give you an answer within 5-10 %. Ask me to spell, Hippo -hipop hipopanonomous I cant. But who cares? as engineers we are given a 5% leniency generally that obviously extends to my spelling and grammatical ability. If I wanted to spell, I would move to germany and hire a secretary to do it for me.

This spelling crap is the typical beaurocracy that is holding this nation down. Why do we not just say to the government, Give a Sh*t? Give a Sh*t about the shapes of bananas, smacking children, removing civil rights from those who commit crime,

why oh why do we let them do this to us? Because as usual, we hear the minority cry,moan whinge. All the mean while, the rest of us try and work hard and earn a decent living.

All sp errors and poor grammar are due to

1) I am an engineer.

2) I am drunk.

Engineers in France, Germany and even the US are highly literate, are paid better than their UK counterparts, and are generally better than those UK engineers (sadly the majority) who are non-literate. In my limited experience.

Homeless may or may not be able to do his job. He could do it better if he could use written communication more effectively.

Sorry, that is frankly crap. Engineers in the US (Boeing), France (Renault, Peugeot, Airbus), Germany (BMW,Audi) all live off state subsidies, for which UK engineers do NOT get. They also have favourable exchange rates unlike the UK, which consistently this government have undermined at the cost to engineering. As soon as there is a whiff of someone shirting the rules to get a deal, we have socialist worker reading left wing pinko wussies obviously defected from mother russia wingeing about "ooh the euro" or "oh, this arms trade we do at billions of pounds benefit to UK PLC is SOOO evil..." People seem to forget that for all of these cases that we let go, some other western nation is fully willing to step in place.... And take the loot from us. We cant police the world people if we are not a world leading power.

Lets not forget we

Invented the industrial age

Split the atom

Bore Newton - need I say more

Watson and crick -genetics

Too many to mention

Frank Whittle - Jet engine

ALL British... Since Left wing politics got into the fray what have we engineered? A couple of hundred thousand single mothers in their free council houses.

Edited by mbga9pgf
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Engineers in France, Germany and even the US are highly literate, are paid better than their UK counterparts, and are generally better than those UK engineers (sadly the majority) who are non-literate. In my limited experience.

Homeless may or may not be able to do his job. He could do it better if he could use written communication more effectively.

Well, speaking as an aerospace/space engineer myself, I would agree that written communication is increasingly important in at least my field of engineering (seeing as most of it consists of chasing tenders!) - however, I would not necessarily agree that engineers on the continent get paid better...in France astronautical engineers do NOT get paid a lot.

You are right though, they get treated pretty nicely in the USA. I considered giving that a crack of the whip, but I am put off by the fact that I think the dollar is in a terminal decline for the foreseeable near-term.

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Engineers in France, Germany and even the US are highly literate, are paid better than their UK counterparts, and are generally better than those UK engineers (sadly the majority) who are non-literate. In my limited experience.

Don't know where you get off saying that US Engineers are better than the British. I am over here at the moment and can tell you from my "Limited" experience that this is absolutely not the case. Better paid, Yes, better engineers, No.

Cant comment on French/German.

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in France astronautical engineers do NOT get paid a lot.

You are right though, they get treated pretty nicely in the USA. I considered giving that a crack of the whip, but I am put off by the fact that I think the dollar is in a terminal decline for the foreseeable near-term.

Fair point, it's the same in railways. But they are held in high regard and are literate - even in English! (Swedish engineers are far better in English than British engineers!)

Wouldn't worry about terminal decline of the dollar (although it's at a year high against the £ today), living costs will still always be lower and standards higher there than here. It broke my heart to have to ebay my two nearly new Jags in the States before I left - now have a crappy old Volvo estate. Same salary. And don't get me started on houses.

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As an ex manufacturing and now Building Services Engineer I can see a wealth of technological talent on HPC. This should be harnessed to develop a leftie nu labour killing death ray. :ph34r:

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Don't know where you get off saying that US Engineers are better than the British. I am over here at the moment and can tell you from my "Limited" experience that this is absolutely not the case. Better paid, Yes, better engineers, No.

Cant comment on French/German.

Alright, let me roll back a bit. My experience is heavy mechanical engineering especially railways and associated electrical and control engineering.

In France and Germany, in this field, there is no question that in 2005 these countries have better engineers - I'm not saying it was always so. I also agree that these countries have subsidised and elevated these branches of engineering and maybe strategically it is OK to withdraw from old-style engineering like the UK has done by accident (but I doubt it is a good idea).

In the US, in this field, admittedly the engineering's not good but then railways is a minority field for them. Their cars are crap. At least British ones are crap with flair. In many areas though America produces exquisite, competitive products through quality engineering. More so than the UK.

I am as proud of the British engineering legacy as anyone else and the best British engineering was and is brilliant. But I mean what I say that a tolerance of sloppiness and general crapness - a lack of perfection - which seems to prevail throughout British life - has undermined engineering in the UK and an example is semi-literate engineers coming out of University at our expense who cannot produce comprehensible reports or correspondence.

This is not going to cut it in the 21st C.

edited to correct semi-literate pigeon English.

Edited by BoredTrainBuilder
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Another sucky thing i read today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4697327.stm

The government welcomed the spread of over 20,000 fee-charging ATMs as convenient and not posing a threat to the free-to-use machine network

These bunch of w4nkers really need taking outside and given a good kicking. How long do you think its going to take banks now they've got the all clear to charge for all hole in the wall tranactions, I give 12 months before we all paying £2.50 to withdraw £10.

I thought when one votes its to elect govenment to best lead us not to pick a group of poodles who bend over and gets shafted by big business.

Edited by Dicky
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What we really need to develop is a ray that makes politicians tell the truth :).

Hmm, that would achieve the same thing, but would be a "Humane/Non-Lethal" weapon. Kind of like pepper spray, Tazer, Water cannon etc.

Would certainly give muchos entertainment factor watching them squirm as the truth gushed forth....................

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I am as proud of the British engineering legacy as anyone else and the best British engineering was and is brilliant. But I mean what I say that a tolerance of sloppiness and general crapness - a lack of perfection - which seems to prevail throughout British life - has undermined engineering in the UK and an example is semi-literate engineers coming out of University at our expense who cannot produce comprehensible reports or correspondence.

Unfortunately I have to agree. The lack of standards I would suggest come from the incompetent managerial level staff we find at the heads of British manufacturing, Promising the earth to customers with little consultation with those that deliver. All this Boll*cks about ISO9001 and other beaurocratic jobs for the boys european legislation, followed to the word by none other than the rule following Brits, understandably puts us at a significant disadvantage. Has anyone considered, although Germany has underperformed economically, they as a nation are far better off? Did you know until next year, they do not have credit cards? They have to pay off the balance every month. "True" credit only comes online for our Wurst loving friends next year. I truly fear the capability of a strong manufacaturing base such as Germany, especially seeing as ours has been raped over the years.

Back to the original point, instead of hiring goons to lead British industry, we should be recruiting level headed forward thinking engineers to lead our manufacturing industry, for it is only they who truly know what the industry needs to get it going again.

PS I work aero too... more front end engineer as opposed to construction/design

Edited by mbga9pgf
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well well, I must say it is nice to see so much engineering talent in one place! I am a mission systems engineer by the way, doing phase A stuff - so probably considered a hand-waving schukster by some of you harder engineers! Mind you, I have done some fairly heavy-duty satellite AOCS engineering research in my time.

I would say that I have not been around long enough to really objectively comment on the real or imagined decline, but my feelings err towards decline!! I am not the sharpest tool in the box, but for my two penneths worth I think a lot of the problem nowadays boils down to:

1. Commercial environment - too rapid, too vicious, too unstable...I find it difficult developing and maintaining skills, which then often as not I don't get to apply more than once (however this is a classic sysengineers gripe in aerospace).

2. Social environment - I genuinely believe that the social standing in the UK of engineers is at an all time low. When I look back on the engineering heritage of this country (let's face it we INVENTED engineering), I feel so depressed by how engineers are treated now. To illustrate this simply, imagine you are a pretty young girl (maybe some of you are but I doubt it!) and you bring home a nice young man to meet your parents. What will they prefer to here you do for a living?

a. Investment Banker :D

b. Lawyer :P

c. Doctor :)

d. Chartered Surveyor ;)

e. Advertising Executive :huh:

f. Engineer :(

g. Toilet attendant. :ph34r:

I put these in GENUINE descending order of social respect and 'parental approval rating'. Whats happening here? Personally I blame (as I have already done in another thread) the bankers and lawyers.

3. Mental environment - hard work is simply not valued any more...people see other 'jobs' where they can EARN more whilst hurting their brains a lot less...they take them (rational in its way). Engineering, sciences are hard (I find it all bloody hard!), and people can't be arsed.

I also think that we live in an age of miracles where the vast majority of people have a disgusting lack of respect and appreciation for virtually all the technology that surrounds them. Nobody gives a f**k about how incredible things like mobile phones are, they just treat them like part of the natural environment, without pausing to consider how bloody incredible they really are. I am not saying that everyone should understand exactly how they work (that would be stupid...technology should always be simple 'black boxy' for the user) but a bit more appreciation of the engineering could maybe improve our standing a bit more.

And in addition can I just say that techno-futurist nobbers who prattle on about technology and singularities and our eventual bloody downloading onto a chip or whatever really p*ss me off. They seem to think engineering is somehow inevitable and easy...it is not.

All this is interconnected, and I don't see any simple solutions. I have to stop now as I see I am ranting badly. :D

Just remember non-jobbers: somebody needs to make the widget. :angry:

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jeesus

i come on do a topic about the state of this country and start getting accused of being semi-literate, sure my spelling aint great but that dont mean jack to me.

i came 3rd in my class outta 60, i can program and design and set up a manufacturing plant, how many of you full stop bandits can do that ehhh?

I run my own buisness, and make a profit.My spelling aint held me back any.

I just want a better life for me and the family i hope to have, thats all nothing more and thats why i made this thread.Perhaps if i had left school, worked sweeping the streets instead of getting into debt, studying then working hard and putting my money into setting up a buisness i would have been better off, spelling or no spelling.

infact i would have been better off, and there are a few million people just like me in this country now that wish they had done the same, i would have had that nice 100-200k extra bonus every houseowner got.

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jeesus

i come on do a topic about the state of this country and start getting accused of being semi-literate, sure my spelling aint great but that dont mean jack to me.

i came 3rd in my class outta 60, i can program and design and set up a manufacturing plant, how many of you full stop bandits can do that ehhh?

I run my own buisness, and make a profit.My spelling aint held me back any.

I just want a better life for me and the family i hope to have, thats all nothing more and thats why i made this thread.Perhaps if i had left school, worked sweeping the streets instead of getting into debt, studying then working hard and putting my money into setting up a buisness i would have been better off, spelling or no spelling.

infact i would have been better off, and there are a few million people just like me in this country now that wish they had done the same, i would have had that nice 100-200k extra bonus every houseowner got.

Homeless, sorry to point it out, you spelt Jesus incorrectly......

Joking. :P

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George. You dont have to leave England just get out of Chorley  :lol:

lol where to blackburnnnn lol? Come on where's good in blighty then? Bare in mind I'd like to buy a house before im 40, I'm 28 btw. And at this time that is looking very unlikely. Yes Chorley is shit, but then everywhere I seem to go is the same.

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Lawyers are definitely tw@ts.

Why oh why do these glorified bureaucrats get the cash they do I have no idea.

Engineering, like physics and maths, should be free at uni. Surely these skills are fundamental to any modern society!!! :angry:

(I did psychology though ;) )

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Every time I pick up the local rag, or any rag for that matter, or listen to the news north west tonight etc. all i f'ing here is "vicious attack, severe head injuries, woman raped, man with 2 kids knifed to death after chasing car thieves". Not just here same in the midlands, probably worse, saw some clip of teens stabbing each other in the city centre!

Yet when I was in Canada, it was "new park built, $800 million development of downtown yada yada". Only rarely would I hear bad news. + the birds are fit as fck, sexy looking dark hair and glasses.

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Chaps,

I think we should get some things in perspective.

Sure this country has got problems, we we are all priveledged to live in one of the richest countries in the world.

No child in the UK need go hungry or uneducated, and no person need go without a roof over their head.

Compared with pictures we seen on television of the starving in Mali/Sudan or the human rights abuses in Burma etc, our problems are utterly insignficant.

I would even go a little further and add that not only are we relatively rich and have a long established liberal democracy, but Britain is the second most beautiful country in the world. The first IMHO is France and if would could move all the locals out, I would be happy to move there!

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Every time I pick up the local rag, or any rag for that matter, or listen to the news north west tonight etc. all i f'ing here is "vicious attack, severe head injuries, woman raped, man with 2 kids knifed to death after chasing car thieves". Not just here same in the midlands, probably worse, saw some clip of teens stabbing each other in the city centre!

Yet when I was in Canada, it was "new park built,  $800 million development of downtown yada yada". Only rarely would I hear bad news. + the birds are fit as fck, sexy looking dark hair and glasses.

Yes I agree, its all bad news here. When I'm in America you don't see much crime on the news even though they have a much larger population. The crime rate is lower over there. I say this to people here and they don't believe me. People say 'ah but it does happen, you just don't see it on the TV there'. Yeah right.

As far as engineering goes I agree that engineers have less social status here. Its sad. I am more into PCB debug (ie. electronics engineer) myself. Do we have any other posters who do the same here?

Are engineers even electronics techs really more respected abroad, and do they have higher pay than here? I look on the web for jobs but cannot see any with salaries quoted.

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  • 440 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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