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Guest AuntJess

Geographical Snobbery And The North/south Divide

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Guest AuntJess

Coming to live in the South West has been a bit of an education for me. I have found that a number of people originating from the South East/Home counties, tend to adopt a superior manner when talking to me. Whenever I tell them that I hail from Greater Manchester, they say with a roll of the eyes - or similar expression " yes..I can tell!"

I wonder, do they fondly imagine that they have no regional accent, or that THEIR regional 'twang' is somehow more acceptable than anyone else's?rolleyes.gif

I find it annoying as my accent is not slangy or lazy - just Northern. I have been told by other Northerners - specially those in the town where I grew up that " you don't talk like you're from round here" So I obviously haven't got a pronounced accent which is unintellible to others.

What is worse is that when I was on the phone to an establishment in the South East recently, the woman I was speaking to, spoke to me as tho' I were some lower species. dry.gif

I can't think why people feel better than others based only on an accident of birth. It isn't as tho' they have achieved 'owt', like a gold medal in the Olympics or been awarded the OBE or a Phd.

By the same token the Devonians and Dorset folks don't seem to have this overweening sense of their own importance. And why should they indeed? Many have a marked 'burr' as they speak - which I notice but am not inclined to remark on, as WTH has it got to do with anything when you are merely in conversation?

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Bloomin gret Southern jessies. Having picked up Northern lingo I like jabbering in a fast Wigan / Lancashire dialect when in the South East. As AJ pointed out it is viewed as "unacceptable". Whereas waffling on like some sort of East end gangster is viewed by many as a desirable trait.

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Coming to live in the South West has been a bit of an education for me. I have found that a number of people originating from the South East/Home counties, tend to adopt a superior manner when talking to me. Whenever I tell them that I hail from Greater Manchester, they say with a roll of the eyes - or similar expression " yes..I can tell!"

I wonder, do they fondly imagine that they have no regional accent, or that THEIR regional 'twang' is somehow more acceptable than anyone else's?rolleyes.gif

I find it annoying as my accent is not slangy or lazy - just Northern. I have been told by other Northerners - specially those in the town where I grew up that " you don't talk like you're from round here" So I obviously haven't got a pronounced accent which is unintellible to others.

What is worse is that when I was on the phone to an establishment in the South East recently, the woman I was speaking to, spoke to me as tho' I were some lower species. dry.gif

I can't think why people feel better than others based only on an accident of birth. It isn't as tho' they have achieved 'owt', like a gold medal in the Olympics or been awarded the OBE or a Phd.

By the same token the Devonians and Dorset folks don't seem to have this overweening sense of their own importance. And why should they indeed? Many have a marked 'burr' as they speak - which I notice but am not inclined to remark on, as WTH has it got to do with anything when you are merely in conversation?

It all goes back, Aunty, to the days when "The North" evoked images of Dark Satanic Mills; and the Southerner's perspective was cobbled streets, back-to-back Two Up-Two Downs, one privy between 50 families and the denizens crawling around in clogs amongst the muck.

Neatly ignoring, of course, that the Industrial Revolution was the engine of Victorian and Post-Victorian wealth, the Empire and British greatness.

And that many of the familial line from that age transmuted themselves into "Aristocrats" by marrying children into destitute titled families...............

Unfortunately, this attitude carried over and created what used to be called "Greasy Rag Syndrome"; meaning that engineering and industry was very much second class relative to such effete activities as banking and the professions.

The late John Harvey-Jones worked hard to dispell this myth and encourage more youngsters to study and take up industry and engineering.

Interestingly it is fact that a corss-over dialectual form of English which was somewhere between the Yorkshire and Lancastrian accent was the received English of Shakespeare's time!

Thus the affected public school sneering drawl of Big Ears, AKA HRH Price Chas is wholly synthetic.

Well; he's a German isn't he!

Strange how BBC is infested with Northern lads and lasses. And a Geordie accent is reet cool!

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Guest AuntJess

mad.gif Grrrr. Whassup with this website - it keeps freezing then it won't let you edit.

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Guest AuntJess

It all goes back, Aunty, to the days when "The North" evoked images of Dark Satanic Mills; and the Southerner's perspective was cobbled streets, back-to-back Two Up-Two Downs, one privy between 50 families and the denizens crawling around in clogs amongst the muck.

Neatly ignoring, of course, that the Industrial Revolution was the engine of Victorian and Post-Victorian wealth, the Empire and British greatness.

And that many of the familial line from that age transmuted themselves into "Aristocrats" by marrying children into destitute titled families...............

Unfortunately, this attitude carried over and created what used to be called "Greasy Rag Syndrome"; meaning that engineering and industry was very much second class relative to such effete activities as banking and the professions.

The late John Harvey-Jones worked hard to dispell this myth and encourage more youngsters to study and take up industry and engineering.

Interestingly it is fact that a corss-over dialectual form of English which was somewhere between the Yorkshire and Lancastrian accent was the received English of Shakespeare's time!

Thus the affected public school sneering drawl of Big Ears, AKA HRH Price Chas is wholly synthetic.

Well; he's a German isn't he!

Strange how BBC is infested with Northern lads and lasses. And a Geordie accent is reet cool!

I well remember how astonished my OH's home counties relatives were when they came to stay with us and we took them walking over the West Pennines!! They had indeed thought we lived in a " corrie" type house with cobbled streets - summat like the location for " Hobson's Choice"!laugh.gif

They were well-impressed when we took them for what was us a short car ride - into the Ribble Valley.

www.eastlancspct.nhs.uk/patients/whereilive/ribblevalley/

There's the East Lancs/West Lancs and the Lakes: the latter which was part of Lancs, afore they redrew the boundaries some 40 years ago.

Daft thing is that the South East and West is mainly associated also with Farming, as the North West is Industrial/Engineering, so there's rock all to get uppy about!tongue.gif

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I find some Northern accents hard to understand.

My fiancee, who is fluent but not native sometimes asks "was that English?" if the accent's thick.

I do find the North/South rivalry quite entertaining.

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I love the accents around the UK. I don't mean that I like the sound of them all. I just like the fact that they are all so different, and I love the way the accent can change quite a lot even between places very close together.

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I love the accents around the UK. I don't mean that I like the sound of them all. I just like the fact that they are all so different, and I love the way the accent can change quite a lot even between places very close together.

Me too. The regional slang is great too. :)

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Guest Skinty

Coming to live in the South West has been a bit of an education for me. I have found that a number of people originating from the South East/Home counties, tend to adopt a superior manner when talking to me. Whenever I tell them that I hail from Greater Manchester, they say with a roll of the eyes - or similar expression " yes..I can tell!"

I wonder, do they fondly imagine that they have no regional accent, or that THEIR regional 'twang' is somehow more acceptable than anyone else's?rolleyes.gif

I find it annoying as my accent is not slangy or lazy - just Northern. I have been told by other Northerners - specially those in the town where I grew up that " you don't talk like you're from round here" So I obviously haven't got a pronounced accent which is unintellible to others.

What is worse is that when I was on the phone to an establishment in the South East recently, the woman I was speaking to, spoke to me as tho' I were some lower species. dry.gif

I can't think why people feel better than others based only on an accident of birth. It isn't as tho' they have achieved 'owt', like a gold medal in the Olympics or been awarded the OBE or a Phd.

By the same token the Devonians and Dorset folks don't seem to have this overweening sense of their own importance. And why should they indeed? Many have a marked 'burr' as they speak - which I notice but am not inclined to remark on, as WTH has it got to do with anything when you are merely in conversation?

Welcome to the British attitude that your worth as a human being is directly attributable to how much funny money you are suspected of earning.

These people probably consider you a burden on their taxes because you don't work in or near London.

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It's becoming a pain. :(

As to the question, I think it depends on people's experience of those from a specific region I would suggest.

Certain accents and attitudes do tend to get a roll of the eyes. There is a certain northern attitude which gets that reaction no doubt about that.

However knowing my regional accent makes me sound like I've straw in my ears, I made a concerted effort to get rid of mine and haven't done a bad job I feel.

Having a talent for mimicry and a keen interest in dialects and accents, I greatly amuse my French friends by repeating sentences in say a Brummie accent: then a Norfolk dialectc: then Geordie. Scouser and finally Glaswegian "Jimmy" from the heart of the Gorbals!

My friends are totally amazed that so many different accents and dialects emerge from such a small country!

Website: the old comment "If it aint broke don't fix it!" springs to mind!

Techies playing being techies no doubt..................................

Must learn this new web language! Can we use ten CPUs?

The site hosts would have done better by upping their bandwidth IMHO...........

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Coming to live in the South West has been a bit of an education for me. I have found that a number of people originating from the South East/Home counties, tend to adopt a superior manner when talking to me. Whenever I tell them that I hail from Greater Manchester, they say with a roll of the eyes - or similar expression " yes..I can tell!"

I wonder, do they fondly imagine that they have no regional accent, or that THEIR regional 'twang' is somehow more acceptable than anyone else's?rolleyes.gif

I find it annoying as my accent is not slangy or lazy - just Northern. I have been told by other Northerners - specially those in the town where I grew up that " you don't talk like you're from round here" So I obviously haven't got a pronounced accent which is unintellible to others.

What is worse is that when I was on the phone to an establishment in the South East recently, the woman I was speaking to, spoke to me as tho' I were some lower species. dry.gif

I can't think why people feel better than others based only on an accident of birth. It isn't as tho' they have achieved 'owt', like a gold medal in the Olympics or been awarded the OBE or a Phd.

By the same token the Devonians and Dorset folks don't seem to have this overweening sense of their own importance. And why should they indeed? Many have a marked 'burr' as they speak - which I notice but am not inclined to remark on, as WTH has it got to do with anything when you are merely in conversation?

Do people from the HCs really do this more, or do you imagine it?

I only ask because I've frequently heard Australians and white South Africans (who to me are two of the most arrogant cultures on earth, not saying they don't have other excellent qualities, mind) accusing Home Counties Britons of arrogance.

It's as if they :

1) never look at themselves in the mirror and

2) have their expectations so firmly embedded that they have no ability to see anything else.

Objectivity is very tricky.

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Coming to live in the South West has been a bit of an education for me. I have found that a number of people originating from the South East/Home counties, tend to adopt a superior manner when talking to me. Whenever I tell them that I hail from Greater Manchester, they say with a roll of the eyes - or similar expression " yes..I can tell!"

I wonder, do they fondly imagine that they have no regional accent, or that THEIR regional 'twang' is somehow more acceptable than anyone else's?rolleyes.gif

I find it annoying as my accent is not slangy or lazy - just Northern. I have been told by other Northerners - specially those in the town where I grew up that " you don't talk like you're from round here" So I obviously haven't got a pronounced accent which is unintellible to others.

What is worse is that when I was on the phone to an establishment in the South East recently, the woman I was speaking to, spoke to me as tho' I were some lower species. dry.gif

I can't think why people feel better than others based only on an accident of birth. It isn't as tho' they have achieved 'owt', like a gold medal in the Olympics or been awarded the OBE or a Phd.

By the same token the Devonians and Dorset folks don't seem to have this overweening sense of their own importance. And why should they indeed? Many have a marked 'burr' as they speak - which I notice but am not inclined to remark on, as WTH has it got to do with anything when you are merely in conversation?

You know Jess I find this an interesting one.....as a Londoner with a bit of an accent who has lived in the North, Scotland, two countries abroad and the now the Midlands I have frankly seldom if ever run into much notable comment from anyone, apart from the very odd 'you're not from around here' and then in a friendly and interested manner. Special mention to the Brummies who I find whatever the stereotype a generally friendly bunch.

The notable exception would be Scotland where the hostility to anyone with an English accent I found visceral in some situations, not all of course.

Personally I love all the regional accents the UK has; one of the things left that still makes us an interesting country.

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Welcome to the British attitude that your worth as a human being is directly attributable to how much funny money you are suspected of earning.

These people probably consider you a burden on their taxes because you don't work in or near London.

Not just British, is it? Very American too!

And I never suspected AJ was a "Cloggie"...

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I think it is a issue of middle class, capital city dialect.

In Denmark I have struggled to explain to my Danish ex-girlfriend that her posh (as much as that applies in Denmark) Copenhagen accent is just as much a dialect as anywhere else and not intrinsically easier to understand. To her, she is speaking without a dialect and to assert otherwise is bizarre - as if there is a Platonic concept of Danish.

This is not to say people should not speak as clearly as possible, but I recall a posh former housemate of mine becoming irrate when foreigners would understand my Northern accent but not his RP. The difference was I realised I have to make an effort to be clear, whereas as the thought would just have been odd to her.

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Double post.

Nice software changes!

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I think it is a issue of middle class, capital city dialect.

In Denmark I have struggled to explain to my Danish ex-girlfriend that her posh (as much as that applies in Denmark) Copenhagen accent is just as much a dialect as anywhere else and not intrinsically easier to understand. To her, she is speaking without a dialect and to assert otherwise is bizarre - as if there is a Platonic concept of Danish.

This is not to say people should not speak as clearly as possible, but I recall a posh former housemate of mine becoming irrate when foreigners would understand my Northern accent but not his RP. The difference was I realised I have to make an effort to be clear, whereas as the thought would just have been odd to her.

Accent/dialect snobbery applies most places.

There is nothing more objectionable than a Parisian, talking down to and patronising a "Peasant" from the Catalan South!

Indeed, there is even idiomatic expression in the langauge. "Je parle Francais comme la vache Espagnol" - "I speak French like a Spanish Cow"; which means to do it clumsily.

Now this idiomatic expression "Vache Espagnol" - which may be applied to any action which is clumsy - alludes to the hundreds of years when France and Spain kept fightng each other and the land either side of the Pyreness would be French for a hundred years: then Spanish for perhaps the next hundred years!

So those living either side of the mountain ranges spoke a mixture of French - with a heavy gutteral Spanish acent: and Spanish, with a French accent and rolling trills from the back of the throat!

Old hatreds die hard it seems.

Load of nonsense: people are what they are.

Perhaps one day, British society might develop sufficient brains to value people for basic human integrity, manners, intellect, willing spirit and compassion: rather than where they live: where they went to school: how much they earn: and how much their watch cost..............................

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Guest AuntJess

Not just British, is it? Very American too!

And I never suspected AJ was a "Cloggie"...

That is because you make the erroneous assumption that Northerners aren't educated, maybe.huh.gif

I write - and actually speak - in elaborated code - but 'cos you aren't able to hear my accent, you 'assume' that I am not from a place where uneducated/working class? folks live, as restricted code is associated with Working Class, as is elaborated code with Middle Class.

I thought you might have picked up on the way I use the words 'owt', 'folk', 'nowt' and 'summat' in my written 'prose' on here, as a 'nod' to my Northern heritage, though my far roots are in Wales, Ireland and Derbyshire.smile.gif

S'funny,really, when you think of all the great men, inventors or scientists, who either hailed from - or made their names in - the North-West.

Manchester Uni. has a proud tradition of many 'trail-blazers.'

Bet no one picked holes with THEIR vowel sounds.rolleyes.gif

Southern 'oiks' always learn - to their peril - that I don't "slap around too easy", figuratively speaking.wink.gif

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Accent/dialect snobbery applies most places.

There is nothing more objectionable than a Parisian, talking down to and patronising a "Peasant" from the Catalan South!

Indeed, there is even idiomatic expression in the langauge. "Je parle Francais comme la vache Espagnol" - "I speak French like a Spanish Cow"; which means to do it clumsily.

Perhaps one day, British society might develop sufficient brains to value people for basic human integrity, manners, intellect, willing spirit and compassion: rather than where they live: where they went to school: how much they earn: and how much their watch cost..............................

The Parisians consider that Paris is France if you do not live in Paris you live in Provence which for them is the rest of France

Je parle francais comme une vache espagnol is an expression that is used for people who speak a second language but really bad

It applies to all languages

Je parle anglais comme une vache espagnol

Je parle italien comme une vache espagnol etc

There is a North /South divide in France

The North of France is considered as poor backwards cold full of the unemployed etc

A film was made about this "stereotype northerner" called "Bienvenue chez les chitti's"

A good funny film

French society as well as British society has to change its rules about judging people who live in unpopular geographical regions

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Accent/dialect snobbery applies most places.

There is nothing more objectionable than a Parisian, talking down to and patronising a "Peasant" from the Catalan South!

Indeed, there is even idiomatic expression in the langauge. "Je parle Francais comme la vache Espagnol" - "I speak French like a Spanish Cow"; which means to do it clumsily.

Now this idiomatic expression "Vache Espagnol" - which may be applied to any action which is clumsy - alludes to the hundreds of years when France and Spain kept fightng each other and the land either side of the Pyreness would be French for a hundred years: then Spanish for perhaps the next hundred years!

So those living either side of the mountain ranges spoke a mixture of French - with a heavy gutteral Spanish acent: and Spanish, with a French accent and rolling trills from the back of the throat!

Old hatreds die hard it seems.

Load of nonsense: people are what they are.

Perhaps one day, British society might develop sufficient brains to value people for basic human integrity, manners, intellect, willing spirit and compassion: rather than where they live: where they went to school: how much they earn: and how much their watch cost..............................

The Parisians speak with a thick accent/phonetics (like a Bow-bells Londoner) too and I find their lingo-french much harder to understand compared to say someone from Normandy.

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Bet no one picked holes with THEIR vowel sounds.rolleyes.gif

Southern 'oiks' always learn - to their peril - that I don't "slap around too easy", figuratively speaking.wink.gif

Aye well, I put up with ignorant northern monkeys taking the piss out of my southern accent for years - now I just pass it on when I hear one down here.

Fairs fair.

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That is because you make the erroneous assumption that Northerners aren't educated, maybe.

Not really. I'm from Yorkshire, and I only put coal in the bath to please visitors from Lahnden.

Just off to arrange the pigeons... ;)

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