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So Has Britain Got Any Relevence Or Anything Going For It Now?

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so i know most people believe the UK is truly ****ed, and I agree, but i'd love to be proved wrong?

Ignoring the social and political problems, since this is the hp/ economy forum...

does britain have any economical relevence now? Ok so we had london as a premier financial sector, and a ..consumer led economy.

now with most consumers tapped out, and more importantly, it would seem the only thing UK had to differentiate it from say, iceland was London being a financial hub.

but now, not just with british banks on the ropes, but with firms such as HSBC (possibly the only UK bank not to get slaughtered) last week having relocated their HQ from london to HK, and with various countries removing their gold from london, often also to place in HK vaults, it appears that hong kong may have taken the place of london as a financial base.

so what do we have now? i'd really like to know, thank you.

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so i know most people believe the UK is truly ****ed, and I agree, but i'd love to be proved wrong?

Ignoring the social and political problems, since this is the hp/ economy forum...

does britain have any economical relevence now? Ok so we had london as a premier financial sector, and a ..consumer led economy.

now with most consumers tapped out, and more importantly, it would seem the only thing UK had to differentiate it from say, iceland was London being a financial hub.

but now, not just with british banks on the ropes, but with firms such as HSBC (possibly the only UK bank not to get slaughtered) last week having relocated their HQ from london to HK, and with various countries removing their gold from london, often also to place in HK vaults, it appears that hong kong may have taken the place of london as a financial base.

so what do we have now? i'd really like to know, thank you.

Britain will turn into an insignificant windy island off the coast of the NW Atlantic and nothing else. People will be fleeing the place and birth rates will become negative (just like in the old communist countries) as no one will be able to live with the guilt of introducing a child into such a shitehole + they won't be able to afford it.

There will be no economic recovery. No manufacturing resurgence. No silver bullet.

I'm looking at this from a point of realism. Long term national infrastructure and planning (energy supplies, population, food production, utilities etc) has been decimated and we live in the most short-termist society on earth.

I would love to say that optimism can be gained from past historical achievements of decimated nations (e.g Japan after WWII) but the work ethic, enthusiasm and civility of their populations has enabled economic re-build.

In Britain only the stupid have breed in large numbers for year after year, the population has been brought up expecting everything to be their right work or not and most intelligent people have escaped to New Zealand, Australia or Canada leaving a massive brain drain (the education system has also minimized numbers of engineers and scientists)

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Britain will turn into an insignificant windy island off the coast of the NW Atlantic and nothing else. People will be fleeing the place and birth rates will become negative (just like in the old communist countries) as no one will be able to live with the guilt of introducing a child into such a shitehole + they won't be able to afford it.

There will be no economic recovery. No manufacturing resurgence. No silver bullet.

I'm looking at this from a point of realism. Long term national infrastructure and planning (energy supplies, population, food production, utilities etc) has been decimated and we live in the most short-termist society on earth.

I would love to say that optimism can be gained from past historical achievements of decimated nations (e.g Japan after WWII) but the work ethic, enthusiasm and civility of their populations has enabled economic re-build.

In Britain only the stupid have breed in large numbers for year after year, the population has been brought up expecting everything to be their right work or not and most intelligent people have escaped to New Zealand, Australia or Canada leaving a massive brain drain (the education system has also minimized numbers of engineers and scientists)

heheheh

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Britain will turn into an insignificant windy island off the coast of the NW Atlantic and nothing else. People will be fleeing the place and birth rates will become negative (just like in the old communist countries) as no one will be able to live with the guilt of introducing a child into such a shitehole + they won't be able to afford it.

There will be no economic recovery. No manufacturing resurgence. No silver bullet.

I'm looking at this from a point of realism. Long term national infrastructure and planning (energy supplies, population, food production, utilities etc) has been decimated and we live in the most short-termist society on earth.

I would love to say that optimism can be gained from past historical achievements of decimated nations (e.g Japan after WWII) but the work ethic, enthusiasm and civility of their populations has enabled economic re-build.

In Britain only the stupid have breed in large numbers for year after year, the population has been brought up expecting everything to be their right work or not and most intelligent people have escaped to New Zealand, Australia or Canada leaving a massive brain drain (the education system has also minimized numbers of engineers and scientists)

A plan

plagiarized from bill bonner

Want to save the UK? Here’s how:

Abolish all welfare of all sorts…no unemployment insurance…no child tax credits…no welfare…no foodstamps…no nothing, except privately-sponsored charities. Close the public schools. Kick out all the bureaucrats and all state employees. Abolish all rules concerning employment – no minimum wages, no overtime, discriminate all you want. Require all residents to say please and thank you…dress properly…and sneer at people who don’t seem to be gainfully employed or polite. Declare the Country a Free Trade Zone. Allow unlimited immigration …giving all immigrants a U.K. passport after 5 years of residency. Levy a flat 10% tax to pay for basic services. Eliminate elections…have the Country controlled by 100 citizens chosen at random.

Within ten years, the UK would be the most dynamic Country in the World.

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A plan

plagiarized from bill bonner

Want to save the UK? Here’s how:

Abolish all welfare of all sorts…no unemployment insurance…no child tax credits…no welfare…no foodstamps…no nothing, except privately-sponsored charities. Close the public schools. Kick out all the bureaucrats and all state employees. Abolish all rules concerning employment – no minimum wages, no overtime, discriminate all you want. Require all residents to say please and thank you…dress properly…and sneer at people who don’t seem to be gainfully employed or polite. Declare the Country a Free Trade Zone. Allow unlimited immigration …giving all immigrants a U.K. passport after 5 years of residency. Levy a flat 10% tax to pay for basic services. Eliminate elections…have the Country controlled by 100 citizens chosen at random.

Within ten years, the UK would be the most dynamic Country in the World.

The neo-cons never give up do they :lol: Even when the evidence, say from Latvia/Lithuania, shows otherwise

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Guest absolutezero
A plan

plagiarized from bill bonner

Want to save the UK? Here’s how:

Abolish all welfare of all sorts…no unemployment insurance…no child tax credits…no welfare…no foodstamps…no nothing, except privately-sponsored charities. Close the public schools. Kick out all the bureaucrats and all state employees. Abolish all rules concerning employment – no minimum wages, no overtime, discriminate all you want. Require all residents to say please and thank you…dress properly…and sneer at people who don’t seem to be gainfully employed or polite. Declare the Country a Free Trade Zone. Allow unlimited immigration …giving all immigrants a U.K. passport after 5 years of residency. Levy a flat 10% tax to pay for basic services. Eliminate elections…have the Country controlled by 100 citizens chosen at random.

Within ten years, the UK would be the most dynamic Country in the World.

What exactly would the 10% tax pay for?

You've lost the benefits and the schools.

I'm assuming you've shut down the NHS as that's welfare.

We don't need employment tribunals or the Health and Safety police as you've slashed all employment legislation and taken us back to the 17th century by having kids up chimneys (no schools so parents will send their kids out to work - you mean chav parents will PAY for their kids to be educated?!) and workers doing unsafe things.

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You're correct (tick) It's ****ed

I'm 50 years old

Off to Southern Italy is 18 months time with the Italian girlfriend, house bought and paid for.

House and flat in UK bought and paid for and both been rented for the last 10 years +

Ok final salary pension from Mars Confectionary

and a nice wad of cash from a house sale in August 2007

I thank you UK, but unfortunately I'm bailing out, I was once so proud to be English, now I'm ashamed of the country!

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The UK will not go down the pan. Way too much going for it, not least the language of the world, culture, manufacturing, financial centre, olympics, world cup 2016, history, 5th most popular tourist destination.....and I could go on.

I am still planning on fleeing one day myself but for pull factors, not push.

Ungeared - have you been to Southern Italy? No doubt your Italian girlfriend won't be as glamorous as you are hinting, most Italian women end up as right big mamas.

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The UK will not go down the pan. Way too much going for it, not least the language of the world, culture, manufacturing, financial centre, olympics, world cup 2016, history, 5th most popular tourist destination.....and I could go on.

I am still planning on fleeing one day myself but for pull factors, not push.

Ungeared - have you been to Southern Italy? No doubt your Italian girlfriend won't be as glamorous as you are hinting, most Italian women end up as right big mamas.

Yes I've been to Southern Italy many times, it's take a few visits to view, buy and complete on a house! It's gorgeous, sunny and architectually beautiful, the people are civil, they have good family values and I've not met a chav yet! my girlfriend is in fact very beautiful fyi and 18 years my junior, with a nice ass, which is better than you making assumption, no doubt you are a complete ass :lol:

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the Uk is the 7th largest Manufacturing Exporter in the world :)

-Yes in money terms. Remember the £pound has been overvalued for years. Now $2 doesnt equal £1 it will be interesting to see where we are

-That figure is declining. Manufacturing output has significantly fallen in £ output and as a percentage of GDP has dropped dramitically

-Our manufacturing is very specialist and high end. It has got hit and is going to virtually be eradicated by the depression.

-most is foreign owned. Whilst £output may look good on figure charts, profit leakage is not added into the equation. For instance the Toyota plant in Swindon may manufacturer £1 billion of cars but large amounts of that money will go back to Japan.

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-Yes in money terms. Remember the £pound has been overvalued for years. Now $2 doesnt equal £1 it will be interesting to see where we are

-That figure is declining. Manufacturing output has significantly fallen in £ output and as a percentage of GDP has dropped dramitically

-Our manufacturing is very specialist and high end. It has got hit and is going to virtually be eradicated by the depression.

-most is foreign owned. Whilst £output may look good on figure charts, profit leakage is not added into the equation. For instance the Toyota plant in Swindon may manufacturer £1 billion of cars but large amounts of that money will go back to Japan.

...and there was me thinking it was Honda in Swindon :blink:

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Guest P-Diddly
so i know most people believe the UK is truly ****ed, and I agree, but i'd love to be proved wrong?

Ignoring the social and political problems, since this is the hp/ economy forum...

does britain have any economical relevence now? Ok so we had london as a premier financial sector, and a ..consumer led economy.

now with most consumers tapped out, and more importantly, it would seem the only thing UK had to differentiate it from say, iceland was London being a financial hub.

but now, not just with british banks on the ropes, but with firms such as HSBC (possibly the only UK bank not to get slaughtered) last week having relocated their HQ from london to HK, and with various countries removing their gold from london, often also to place in HK vaults, it appears that hong kong may have taken the place of london as a financial base.

so what do we have now? i'd really like to know, thank you.

It's got loads going for it.

1. A relatively good infrastructure, although this needs work especially the National Grid and future power supply

2. It still has a good knowledge base, a good education system, a health care system

3. It has (although this is now at serious risk) an excellent supply chain

4. You lot are much brighter and harder working than you realise compared to many other countries

5. It has a seat on the UN Security Council

6. It still has a Parliamentary democracy and a Monarchy . . . okay I here you about New Labour/Conservatives etc

7. You still have a relatively low cost of living . . . okay exclude housing and few bits and bobs from that

8. The UK populous is terrified of it's own shadow and is unlikely to rebel to the extent of say, the French

First priority for the UK is to make sure it can provide essential human needs domestically should the worst happen, i.e., national default similar to Iceland. Power, agriculture and funnily enough water (south east England is highly vulnerable to shortages).

Then it needs to reduce the size of government to provide basic services (not all this frilly stuff), particularly the bits that have made an industry out of obstruction. Reduce the tax burden if now possible.

Re-engineer how it interacts financially with the rest of the world, i.e., make stuff and sell stuff, high tech and lower tech, including knowledge and professional services such as engineering consultancy, construction, oil and gas, etc. Get away from this idea of a 'consumer' economy and shift round to a 'producer' economy, that way you can live within means, get a trade surplus going and pay down debt (although the service charges are now looking so huge, I'm not sure if this is possible, compound interest etc).

Remove this attack on private pensions. This 'windfall' nonsense. It was one of the things that forced many to look at BTL to provide for future retirement needs, thus the bubble but importantly it starved industry of R&D cash, this void filled by the M&A and venture capital cash, we all know where that bubble money came from . . . and went.

It also needs to change it's was regards the welfare state. No longer can people decide to sit at home and expect others to provide and make no contribution. Many were 'unemployed' during the biggest economic boom in history, yet mass immigration was required to fill job vacancies. Before anyone starts, I used to employ eastern European labour . . . at the same £10-£14 an hour rates native UK workers were getting.

Get rid of the government contract culture as it is . . . Capita and others dependent on these contracts which are allowed to sour in favour of the contractor and thus the UK taxpayer bails out failure and waste. Add to that get real about PFI.

Perhaps be a little more protectionist regards imports of non-essential items . . . Asia is. Develop domestic markets, both supply and demand.

Above all, get a government that understands what money is. It's the accounting system for human ingenuity, resource and production. You cannot print that.

Main thing is, don't give up hope. I don't believe all is lost . . . just yet.

Or am I just being optimistic?

EDIT: It's the home of the English language. This has more importance than you realise.

Edited by P-Diddly

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You're correct (tick) It's ****ed

I'm 50 years old

Off to Southern Italy is 18 months time with the Italian girlfriend, house bought and paid for.

House and flat in UK bought and paid for and both been rented for the last 10 years +

Ok final salary pension from Mars Confectionary

and a nice wad of cash from a house sale in August 2007

I thank you UK, but unfortunately I'm bailing out, I was once so proud to be English, now I'm ashamed of the country!

Typical spineless, gutless expat. The UK has given you everything and now you turn round and call it a craphole and bugger off with your pension and sales proceeds. Do you think Italy would have given you all those things, you are a spineless pr1ck ashamed to be English? - no England is ashamed of you.

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There is nothing wrong with britain,it's just the shower we have governing it.

Most people here do still want a sense of honesty and fair play,decent work ethic,and basically conservative lifestyle.

it's the left-wing apparatchiks that won't take no for an answer that are fecking the place up.

we went to war with germany,but we do have a kind of grudging respect for their discipline,probably because we are built of the same stock.

We don't really do namby-pamby,it's not in our nature.

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The UK will not go down the pan. Way too much going for it, not least the language of the world, culture, manufacturing, financial centre, olympics, world cup 2016, history, 5th most popular tourist destination.....and I could go on.

I am still planning on fleeing one day myself but for pull factors, not push.

Ungeared - have you been to Southern Italy? No doubt your Italian girlfriend won't be as glamorous as you are hinting, most Italian women end up as right big mamas.

culture... they have "culture" in N.Korea, means f' all.

manufacturing......

manufacturing_industry_in_uk_clip_image008_0000.gif

financial centre..... HA!

_45512164_rbs1_226.jpg

olympics... 2 weeks of games. oh great.

history..... history is history. history is not now.

Now I will give some real good things (can't be all doom and gloom)...

Uk has.... the most beautiful countryside in the world, the worlds best drink, worlds best confectionery, has given and still (albeit not as frequently) given the world great music, makes the best looking cars in the world, and although our birds are not as fit as the swedes, pending their size of waste they still are a lot fitter then a lot of other countries....

but society and the economy are fooked

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Typical spineless, gutless expat. The UK has given you everything and now you turn round and call it a craphole and bugger off with your pension and sales proceeds. Do you think Italy would have given you all those things, you are a spineless pr1ck ashamed to be English? - no England is ashamed of you.

I think there's only one pr1ck in the room.....no doubt you'll be moaning about not having a house and it's all my fault, I've worked hard all my working life, I have worked to make choices, isn't that what it's all about?

The choice to live in peace, not to be robbed, to be treated with respect, I'm sick silly and tired of seeing kids having kids having kids and mugs like me having to pay for it, you pr1ck! You pay for all the injustice in this country, I'll bugger off to Italy and you'll be moaning about the same sh1t now and in 20 years time, this country has given me sod all, I work my ass off for what i have and leave with now DEBT!

Wallow in the sh1t YOU deserve, I'll think of ya lol

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Guest P-Diddly
I think there's only one pr1ck in the room.....no doubt you'll be moaning about not having a house and it's all my fault, I've worked hard all my working life, I have worked to make choices, isn't that what it's all about?

The choice to live in peace, not to be robbed, to be treated with respect, I'm sick silly and tired of seeing kids having kids having kids and mugs like me having to pay for it, you pr1ck! You pay for all the injustice in this country, I'll bugger off to Italy and you'll be moaning about the same sh1t now and in 20 years time, this country has given me sod all, I work my ass off for what i have and leave with now DEBT!

Wallow in the sh1t YOU deserve, I'll think of ya lol

Have you been an expat before?

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You're correct (tick) It's ****ed

I'm 50 years old

Off to Southern Italy is 18 months time with the Italian girlfriend, house bought and paid for.

House and flat in UK bought and paid for and both been rented for the last 10 years +

Ok final salary pension from Mars Confectionary

and a nice wad of cash from a house sale in August 2007

I thank you UK, but unfortunately I'm bailing out, I was once so proud to be English, now I'm ashamed of the country!

I've always thought england was full of numpties but out of curiosty what was the turning point for you and why did you turn from being proud to be ashamed?

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Guest P-Diddly
There is nothing wrong with britain,it's just the shower we have governing it.

Most people here do still want a sense of honesty and fair play,decent work ethic,and basically conservative lifestyle.

it's the left-wing apparatchiks that won't take no for an answer that are fecking the place up.

we went to war with germany,but we do have a kind of grudging respect for their discipline,probably because we are built of the same stock.

We don't really do namby-pamby,it's not in our nature.

+1

Just get silliness out of the way and a bit of sensibility, reward the right people (real producers) and off you go.

Got at least 10 years of a bit of a harder life ahead but I'm confident the UK will ultimately pull through this.

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Have you been an expat before?

No.....waits

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This country was great in the 80s and 90s until Labour came in with their socialist redistribution to the chavs, welfare dependents, illegal immigrants and politically correct contingent.

Why do all the hard working, honest and decent people in our society keep getting ******ed on with rediculous taxes and a government so inept at controlling the scumbags in society?

No wonder there is a brain drain occuring, with our intelligent hard working youth seeking a better life elsewhere. These being replaced mainly by low skilled immigrants.

I moved to Ireland 2 years ago and despite having a fuked up economy it has a sense of community, few scum chavs and a level of respect.

Leftist labour *****ers have sent us under. The UK has become a rotten place.

Edited by ringledman

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This country was great in the 80s and 80s until Labour came in with their socialist redistribution to the chavs, welfare dependents, illegal immigrants and politically correct contingent.

Why do all the hard working, honest and decent people in our society keep getting ******ed on with rediculous taxes and a government so inept at controlling the scumbags in society?

No wonder there is a brain drain occuring, with our intelligent hard working youth seeking a better life elsewhere. These being replced mainly by low skilled immigrants.

I moved to Ireland 2 years ago and despite having a fuked up economy it has a sense of community, few scum chavs and a level of respect.

Leftist labour *****ers have sent us under. The UK has become a rotten place.

Thank god I'm not alone!

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Abolish all welfare of all sorts…no unemployment insurance…no child tax credits…no welfare…no foodstamps…no nothing, except privately-sponsored charities. Close the public schools. Kick out all the bureaucrats and all state employees. Abolish all rules concerning employment �" no minimum wages, no overtime, discriminate all you want. Require all residents to say please and thank you…dress properly…and sneer at people who don’t seem to be gainfully employed or polite. Declare the Country a Free Trade Zone. Allow unlimited immigration …giving all immigrants a U.K. passport after 5 years of residency. Levy a flat 10% tax to pay for basic services. Eliminate elections…have the Country controlled by 100 citizens chosen at random.

A kind of anarcho-authoritarian statist-abolitionist model, then :lol:

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