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bogbrush

The False Choice Of Spending Cuts Or Services Protection

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The schools report is a typical example of the condition, and will of course be discarded by government, but the kernel of the report - "It claims civil servants and head teachers appear to have no idea what value for money means" - rings true.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8276991.stm

In a good manufacturing business we are not faced with the choice of maintaining spending or service levels; we have to improve service (availability, quality) AND we have to reduce costs in nominal terms.

My experience over the last 8 years is that it is possible to radically improve quality and availability, increase volume AND cut overheads (whilst seeing wages rise robustly). It's not easy to do, but it's easy to understand how to do it. It just requires a mixture of appropriate use of technology, clear management, hard work, and focus. There are many, many firms around who do exactly the same thing. It's by no means exceptional, I believe.

The public sector seems to utterly ignore this possibility. It's either cuts OR services, there's a choice and no way of getting both. They corrupt the word "investment" by applying it to all spend, when any business knows there is investment and then there are plain costs; the two are poles apart.

The attitude appears to be that implicitly they believe efficiency to already be high with little headroom. In a good business we always believe we have huge scope for improvement - indeed I expect to achieve similar scale gains over the next 5 years as the last 8; technology, amongst other things, is a gift that just keeps giving.

The thing that manufacturing got decades ago is that better quality MEANS lower costs, and by removing rework, reduces fixed costs too. This isn't new; it isn't even slightly new. Why does it escape attention when we come to the public spending debate?

Edited by bogbrush

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its all a farse

our goverment is evil

they have create thousands of pretend jobs in education over the years, and day after day have fat women in parliament bloating on about improving schools as though we were living in Diecksian times.

The prime example of this playing the moral card time and time again is Browns own assertion that they will wipe out poverty. POVERTY. When was the last time you saw anuone without choose because they could not afford them? Its a joke. But who is going to argue against that?

Schools is this big easy play for the governemtn, like hospitals. Spend spend spend towards this holy grail of education, when in short its just an easy way for governemnt to create jobs and justify spending our money.

I have no kids, and as such would be very happy for every school to be shut down and all children shot.

Our Evil Government.

Edited by 51%deposit

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Guest absolutezero
I have no kids, and as such would be very happy for every school to be shut down and all children shot.

One of the more balanced posts I have seen on here for some time.

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Guest absolutezero
Hmm, not exactly the initiatives I had in mind..

Why not? It'd save hard working, wealth-producing taxpayers like yourself a lot of money.

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I agree with the topic starter, despite working in the public sector myself.

Anecdotally someone I work with is married to a Nurse. He told us a story recently about some routine blood tests that need to be performed at her hospital. He said that in private hospitals they've got robots that can do thousands of samples per day and get the results back within 24 hours. In her hospital they employ several lab technicians to do the same blood tests, at their peak they can do several hundred tests per day, in her hospital its more likely to take a month to get the results back.

In this situation the NHS hospital could increase the level of service by buying one of these testing robots and save money, yet they don't.

Edited to make it more clear that I agree with the topic starter, not shooting children. There were quite a few posts written between when I started to reply and when I actually replied.

Edited by cashrichassetpoor

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Guest absolutezero
I agree with you, despite working in the public sector myself.

Anecdotally someone I work with is married to a Nurse. He told us a story recently about some routine blood tests that need to be performed at her hospital. He said that in private hospitals they've got robots that can do thousands of samples per day and get the results back within 24 hours. In her hospital they employ several lab technicians to do the same blood tests, at their peak they can do several hundred tests per day, in her hospital its more likely to take a month to get the results back.

In this situation the NHS hospital could increase the level of service by buying one of these testing robots and save money, yet they don't.

How accurate and reliable are the robots?

Or are they just churning out useless test results riddled with errors?

If the private sector pay for it, then it MUST be better.... :rolleyes:

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How accurate and reliable are the robots?

Or are they just churning out useless test results riddled with errors?

If the private sector pay for it, then it MUST be better.... :rolleyes:

Do you know the answer?

You are not quite right with your conclusion, but a truism is that if people spend their own money they tend to think harder about it than if they spend other peoples. Roll your eyes at that one.

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How accurate and reliable are the robots?

Or are they just churning out useless test results riddled with errors?

If the private sector pay for it, then it MUST be better.... :rolleyes:

I don't know enough about the accuracy or reliability to comment except that my colleagues wife was in favour of getting the robots based on her knowledge of their use. I believe the robots are less likely to mix up samples than compared to human lab technicians.

From what my colleague told me, there has never been an option to get these robots because they have a relatively large upfront costs, despite lower running costs and a higher throughput. I understood the payback time to be less than 1 year.

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I don't know enough about the accuracy or reliability to comment except that my colleagues wife was in favour of getting the robots based on her knowledge of their use. I believe the robots are less likely to mix up samples than compared to human lab technicians.

From what my colleague told me, there has never been an option to get these robots because they have a relatively large upfront costs, despite lower running costs and a higher throughput. I understood the payback time to be less than 1 year.

A fact that would have any private firm in the World trampling over each other to buy one. But not the public sector. I wonder why?

Maybe absolute zero has the answer.

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I agree with the topic starter, despite working in the public sector myself.

Anecdotally someone I work with is married to a Nurse. He told us a story recently about some routine blood tests that need to be performed at her hospital. He said that in private hospitals they've got robots that can do thousands of samples per day and get the results back within 24 hours. In her hospital they employ several lab technicians to do the same blood tests, at their peak they can do several hundred tests per day, in her hospital its more likely to take a month to get the results back.

In this situation the NHS hospital could increase the level of service by buying one of these testing robots and save money, yet they don't.

Edited to make it more clear that I agree with the topic starter, not shooting children. There were quite a few posts written between when I started to reply and when I actually replied.

This anecdote is completely loopy

Firstly, private hospitals here never have the volume to process thousands of samples a day.

Secondly, most blood tests take a couple of hours or so to process in NHS hospitals. When I request a blood test for a patient from a GP surgery, the results take max 24 hours to get onto the GP surgery computer from when the sample was taken

I cannot recall a single test that takes a month to process

That nurse is talking utter tripe

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This anecdote is completely loopy

Firstly, private hospitals here never have the volume to process thousands of samples a day.

Secondly, most blood tests take a couple of hours or so to process in NHS hospitals. When I request a blood test for a patient from a GP surgery, the results take max 24 hours to get onto the GP surgery computer from when the sample was taken

I cannot recall a single test that takes a month to process

That nurse is talking utter tripe

Well you did not expect to read the truth on a message forum.

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Guest absolutezero
A fact that would have any private firm in the World trampling over each other to buy one. But not the public sector. I wonder why?

Maybe absolute zero has the answer.

How many have you bought for your wealth-producing paperclip laminating business?

On a more serious note,

- short term budgeting.

- or maybe such robots don't exist as someone else suggests.

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I don't know enough about the accuracy or reliability to comment except that my colleagues wife was in favour of getting the robots based on her knowledge of their use. I believe the robots are less likely to mix up samples than compared to human lab technicians.

From what my colleague told me, there has never been an option to get these robots because they have a relatively large upfront costs, despite lower running costs and a higher throughput. I understood the payback time to be less than 1 year.

robots dont buy cars. all they do is consume and require maintenance.

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I agree with the topic starter, despite working in the public sector myself.

Anecdotally someone I work with is married to a Nurse.

Anecdotally I know several health service workers: I can think of a midwife and two administrative people among my closest friends.

All of them are conscientious and hard-working: no argument about that. But they - especially one of the secretaries - are caught up in monstrous inefficiency, imposed on them from above. From trivial crap like having to climb over each other to access a printer, up to systemic inefficiencies like regular ****-covering meetings that many of the six-figure-salary consultants have to spend time sleeping through.

They seriously need someone like our bogbrush[1] to review working practices.

Which of course is why politicians originally wanted to bring in private-sector consultants.

Except of course, they didn't bring in bogbrush[1], just as they didn't bring in porca misèria to review their IT systems. They brought in overpaid, overpriced consultants in sharp suits, whose primary skill was bullshitting. And so the consultants just add to the bloat, along with ever-growing rules and ****-covering.

[1] I'm making some assumptions about our bogbrush here. They may be wrong, but what we see of him on HPC fits the profile of a successful owner-manager in the private sector.

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How many have you bought for your wealth-producing paperclip laminating business?

On a more serious note,

- short term budgeting.

- or maybe such robots don't exist as someone else suggests.

On a really serious note your reply makes no sense at all.

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Guest absolutezero
On a really serious note your reply makes no sense at all.

Which bit? I'm happy to explain.

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Which bit? I'm happy to explain.

I reckon those machines sound feasible. If they don't exist someone should develop them; why pay people to do something when a bit of kit will do it none-stop? You seem to have a default disbelief in the capability of technology, as suggesting it makes errors without any information to lead you to that outcome.

Luddism is doubtless prevelent in the public sector, another reason it's such an inefficient mess I guess.

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Guest absolutezero
I reckon those machines sound feasible. If they don't exist someone should develop them; why pay people to do something when a bit of kit will do it none-stop? You seem to have a default disbelief in the capability of technology, as suggesting it makes errors without any information to lead you to that outcome.

Luddism is doubtless prevelent in the public sector, another reason it's such an inefficient mess I guess.

No, I just asked the question.

In BogBrush world, can everyone be replaced by a machine?

In BogBrush world, SHOULD everyone be replaced by a machine?

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No, I just asked the question.

In BogBrush world, can everyone be replaced by a machine?

In BogBrush world, SHOULD everyone be replaced by a machine?

If the technology exists, absolutely it should be.

In absolute zero world have they got rid of the machines and gone back to the land yet (ploughs pulled by humans of course)?

Edited by bogbrush

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The schools report is a typical example of the condition, and will of course be discarded by government, but the kernel of the report - "It claims civil servants and head teachers appear to have no idea what value for money means" - rings true.

Because they're unwilling to look into the economics of the housing market they're not funding themselves properly so they have no idea as to the amount of value they're creating.

Its a bit like going out to work but turning down your wages, and then going out on the rob to reclaim the amount of money you think you deserve.

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what if we could all have 1 robot allocated to everyone. that robot can do the exactly same job as you do, it is a direct clone, and does your work for you. you get to stay at home, but spend the money that your robot earns for you.

how would money/resources be allocated...

Edited by mfp123

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