Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
interestrateripoff

The Hmrc Figures Show Taxes Will Have To Rise – And Steeply

Recommended Posts

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/persona...nd-steeply.html

Must taxes rise next year and the year after? That was the dismal consensus of all three major political parties this week, which is disappointing – to say the least – for voters who used to enjoy the illusion of choice.

Worse still, leaked Treasury forecasts suggest that higher taxes really are inevitable.

But a very different picture emerges from HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) – and their figures are a lot closer to the recessionary reality at street level that you and I might recognise.

HMRC are, of course, the people who actually collect and count our taxes, so they may know a bit more about what is really going on than the wonks at the Treasury.

Widespread redundancies, insolvencies and other forms of economic failure will cause tax revenues to fall by more than 10pc during the tax year that ends next April, according to HMRC. Don't take my word for it: you can see for yourself at hmrc.gov.uk.

The figures make grim reading. Total tax receipts – including National Insurance Contributions (NICs) – will fall by £45bn to £394bn during the current fiscal year. That would be the lowest level seen in five years.

Income tax, the biggest single source of HMRC receipts, is forecast to fall by just under 10pc but other taxes – such as Stamp Duty and Capital Gains Tax (CGT) – are predicted to plunge by much more.

Mortgage famine and falling house prices will combine to cut Stamp Duty by 37pc this year, according to HMRC, leaving the Exchequer £3bn short of what it took off homebuyers last year. Investors suffering losses instead of enjoying profits mean CGT is expected to collapse by more than 70pc from £7.8bn to £2.2bn.

No wonder the Government decided not to publicise these figures during last week's political knockabout after the Opposition leaked Treasury forecasts of rising tax revenues. Their predictions may have been depressing but the reality is far more alarming.

Richard Mannion, national tax director at accountants Smith & Williamson, tells me: "These are the figures before any politicians have had the chance to interfere with them.

"They tell the story of an economy hit by recession and demonstrate why talk of recovery is premature. My experience of the recession in the early 1990s suggests that it takes a long time for businesses on the ground to recover from a setback like this because of the lag in insolvencies and redundancies."

Unfortunately for taxpayers, as mentioned earlier, all the major political parties agree that the Government needs our money more than we do. So, whoever wins the General Election next year, we can expect HMRC to find new ways to get its arm deeper into our pockets in future.

Alan Pearce of accountants Blick Rothenberg sets out on page 7 of this section today why Value Added Tax is likely to be high up the hit list.

VAT is already due to rise to 17.5pc next January but, as Mr Pearce points out, that would remain substantially lower than the level in several other European Union countries. He predicts it will be raised to 20pc, adding to the cost of pretty much everything we buy – other than food, children's clothes and financial services.

Mr Mannion agrees. He pointed out that five years ago VAT generated almost as much for the Exchequer as NICs but the take will be nearer two thirds of that raised by NICs in the current year. VAT also has the advantage of being easy to collect and difficult to avoid.

Even HMRC's predictions show that some tax revenues will increase in the current fiscal year.

Very grim reading, however this article does omit a very serious point, this govt is now on the way to double our interest payments per year. This was around £30bn a year to service govt debt, this is now ballooning to £60bn a year. So the govt now has to find £30bn from existing budgets and now move it to cover debt servicing on top of collapsing revenue.

Anyone who thinks we are going to have anything of a sustained recovery is living in a dream world, the govt is going to have to make huge cuts just to service the debt! In effect govt revenue for spending on services is now only £330bn, that's assuming the tax take doesn't get any worse in the jobless recovery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/persona...nd-steeply.html

Very grim reading, however this article does omit a very serious point, this govt is now on the way to double our interest payments per year. This was around £30bn a year to service govt debt, this is now ballooning to £60bn a year. So the govt now has to find £30bn from existing budgets and now move it to cover debt servicing on top of collapsing revenue.

Anyone who thinks we are going to have anything of a sustained recovery is living in a dream world, the govt is going to have to make huge cuts just to service the debt! In effect govt revenue for spending on services is now only £330bn, that's assuming the tax take doesn't get any worse in the jobless recovery.

PRINTY PRINTY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PRINTY PRINTY.

To keep the base rate low, so they can manage the debt?

Decisions hey, manage or address, sooner or later repayment will be the only option, higher taxes, printy printy will be a term you used to use but now use the term taxy taxy! :(

We will pay alot more tax, be laden with debt and on low wages, the plan all along! ;)

80% of your wage on tax and debt servicing, 20% for food and warmth, welcome to modern slavery!

Edited by Panda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Tax has to rise steeply"............... :lol: ............what a load of old b0ll0x.

Mortgages have to be paid Gordon/Darling/Merv, you clueless old diddy's. :rolleyes:

(You're right Injin. Printing is the last role of the dice. A 6 will keep on appearing until we pay 2 grand for a packet of Snack 'a' Jack.)

Or it's deflation. :ph34r:

Edited by Wait & See

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PRINTY PRINTY.

And then Some! These buggers know they are betting on a dead horse! They just want fact's/Figures to quote 5 years down the line.

Bet your bottom, post next election, interest rates will rise, Living expenses will rise, taxes will rise and take home pay in relation to those will fall by a considerable amount.

But the banks will be re-capitalised and that's the real fear! Banks going POP is bad for everyone.... Hence we own majority stakes in the important ones.

And how does a bank work exactly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The social security budget will have to be cut, no choice.

End of universal child benefit and a trim in WTC.

Those in work will get a double whammy of increased taxes and reduced benefits, further undermining the incentive to get off benefits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The tax rises necessary will destroy the economy....100% guaranteed.

yep

tax rises will not result in an increase in the tax collected

hmm remember

1) Dramatically shrinking economy, leading to

2) Soaring defaults, leading to

3) Massive bank losses, leading to

4) Severe contraction of lending, leading to

5) Further shrinking of economic activity, leading to

6) Collapsing tax receipts, leading to

7) Exponentially increasing budget deficit, leading to

8) Higher taxes, leading to

9) Further horrendous contraction of economic activity, leading to

10) Huge political pressure for easier credit and bank bailouts, leading to

11) Further dramatic expansion of the money supply, leading to

12) Runaway inflation and currency depreciation, leading to

13) Skyrocketing prices and long term interest rates, leading straight back to 1) in a vicious circle of biblical proportions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This printy printy sh!te, friggin gold b@gs!

We think high house prices are bad now, the generation below 40 have never seen tough times!

Wait till they discover high taxes, high interest rates, low wages relative to cost of essentials, then watch the rich getting richer, friggin hell the poor have never had it so good, the next ten will look like the modern "ROOTS"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The social security budget will have to be cut, no choice.

not the military, the civil service, a trim in pensions, etc etc etc?

End of universal child benefit and a trim in WTC.

Those in work will get a double whammy of increased taxes and reduced benefits, further undermining the incentive to get off benefits.

So easy to say, so incredibly difficult to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is only so much you can raise income tax. I reckon 55-60% is the maximum that most working people would put up with and then the black economy would take off.

However wealth taxes (or confiscation of assets) would be acceptible to most people in the UK as the confiscation of white farmers farms was in Zimbabwe. You just need to demonise a proportion of the population first to bring the tax in and then apply it to everybody.

Anyone with say a house worth over £1 million or more than £200k in savings or retirement fund would be taxed on the capital at say 1% to start with and increased as required.

Far fetched perhaps and it would be a daft politician who would suggest such a thing before an election but they must have considered it.

They could call it a windfall tax on deflation or New Deal or care funding or fat cat mansion tax - makes it sound equitable somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is only so much you can raise income tax. I reckon 55-60% is the maximum that most working people would put up with and then the black economy would take off.

However wealth taxes (or confiscation of assets) would be acceptible to most people in the UK as the confiscation of white farmers farms was in Zimbabwe. You just need to demonise a proportion of the population first to bring the tax in and then apply it to everybody.

Anyone with say a house worth over £1 million or more than £200k in savings or retirement fund would be taxed on the capital at say 1% to start with and increased as required.

Far fetched perhaps and it would be a daft politician who would suggest such a thing before an election but they must have considered it.

They could call it a windfall tax on deflation or New Deal or care funding or fat cat mansion tax - makes it sound equitable somehow.

I agree with the seizures taxes....

However I disagree with income tax , in that all the government has to do is to make their oppression more obvious and overt and they can charge whatever tax they need......as with Injin's world we are little more than a dressed up despot society. Tax is ineffect extortion pay up or else!. Although people will refuse you only have to make a nasty example of somebody to force compliance.

Ie the Mongols went into China and utterly ransacked the first large city they came to torturing people to death but allowing a few people to escape , horrific tales of death would spread to nearby cities and they would not put up a fight and surrender instead. Similar thing happened in the great leap forward famine , give us all your grain.

No! , gun is drawn and person is shot in the head.

Give us your grain NOW ..

Hence if UK income tax did go to the moon , you'd say no! no way , but when an army tank is sitting outside your house demanding money and they've just slowly peeled the skin off the first person in your city to say no and televised it, you'll pay up no questions asked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with the seizures taxes....

However I disagree with income tax , in that all the government has to do is to make their oppression more obvious and overt and they can charge whatever tax they need......as with Injin's world we are little more than a dressed up despot society. Tax is ineffect extortion pay up or else!. Although people will refuse you only have to make a nasty example of somebody to force compliance.

Ie the Mongols went into China and utterly ransacked the first large city they came to torturing people to death but allowing a few people to escape , horrific tales of death would spread to nearby cities and they would not put up a fight and surrender instead. Similar thing happened in the great leap forward famine , give us all your grain.

No! , gun is drawn and person is shot in the head.

Give us your grain NOW ..

Hence if UK income tax did go to the moon , you'd say no! no way , but when an army tank is sitting outside your house demanding money and they've just slowly peeled the skin off the first person in your city to say no and televised it, you'll pay up no questions asked.

This power of the overtaxed

citizen to strike effectively against taxation is no

fanciful suggestion of what might possibly happen.

It has happened. Under the Roman Empire taxation

was enormously heavy, for the "'support of the

Army, the Imperial Court, and the great number

of clerks made necessary by the bureaucratic form

of government." It was also extremely oppressive,

since the senatorial class, the Army, Professors of

Rhetoric, and the Clergy, were largely freed from it,

and so the whole burden fell on the curials, that is,

owners of twenty-five acres of land, or its equivalent.

When the curials were bankrupt and could no

longer pay the taxes, they attempted in every way

to escape from their class. Some of them succeeded

in rising into the senatorial ranks; many of them

deserted their lands and became slaves, or entered

the Army or the Church. The Emperors, trying to

prevent this, often seized the curial who had run

away and compelled him to take up his old burden

again."

This fact, of the taxpayers' power to strike, is

very relevant to modern problems of finance, because

it may come into play long before there is

any question of the State's taking the whole of our

goods. As soon as the pressure of taxation begins

to be heavy, the danger has to be ever present in

the mind of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that

he may, by his present exactions, be preventing

the future growth of the country's wealth, and so

making the task of his successors difficult, if not

impossible. Taxation that is resented, beyond a

certain point, will be evaded or avoided.

Ref: <a href="http://mises.org/books/ourmoneyandthestate.pdf" target="_blank">http://mises.org/books/ourmoneyandthestate.pdf</a>

Edited by dr ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The social security budget will have to be cut, no choice.

End of universal child benefit and a trim in WTC.

Those in work will get a double whammy of increased taxes and reduced benefits, further undermining the incentive to get off benefits.

Why? They outnumber the rich who actually work for a living.

Tax big earners. those who don't get tax credits.

votes not reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the capitalist dream has been broken, it can't be sustained it can't support itself...it was all an illusion.

nah, the capitalist dream includes waste causing firms going to the wall. keeping them going is a drain. the longer they are kept going the longer the draining.

inflating government debt doesnt work either, as in order to buy goods from overseas, foreigners need to see something of value for their goods, so that wont work either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone thinking of buying a house or taking on any kind of debt should read this thread. Just look at the HMRC numbers and ask yourselves if you can make the payments as your tax burden gets progressively heavier.

Total tax burden 50% (income, consumption, VED, CT, steath taxes)......result happiness.

Total tax 70%.................................................................result misery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why? They outnumber the rich who actually work for a living.

Tax big earners. those who don't get tax credits.

votes not reality.

Because big earners will just go elsewhere..... and hell the taxodus has already begun , I've noticed on an awful lot of bills and receipts I get I see at the bottom that its not a UK company and incorporated elsewhere, this takes away jobs and such like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the capitalist dream has been broken, it can't be sustained it can't support itself...it was all an illusion.

What's left of capitalism is precisely what's left of the productive economy. And yes, excessive taxes and red tape are very bad for it.

Was that youtube URL the 999th posting here of the deeply unfunny elephant?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should all have a choice about what we pay for...and should take more interest and responsibility for our communities our nearest and dearest and next of kin...you make your bed so you must lie in it. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   291 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.