Guest X-QUORK Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Even worse - I've just realised that by saying I've won an argument, I've implied that it's possible to make an objectively quantifiable statement about the nature of reality Catch 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosh Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I died seven years ago but still keep an open mind........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogs Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 It would, of course, be churlish of me to point out that those who believed in Quantum Theory before it was 'proven' could be called, under your criteria, 'mildy mentally ill'.Indeed the ability to think irrationally has lead to some of our greatest scientific discoveries. I sometimes think that 'logic' and 'rationale' are the greatest drain on human thinking and development since the dark ages. No, it wouldn't be churlish, it would be playing games with the definition of the word "believe". Those who believed in the quantum hypothesis before it was "proven" did so on the basis of mathematics and related experimental results. Those who believe it is the work of nasty elf called Gerald are engaging in a different type of belief, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things unseen" and all that. Logic and rationale are the only reason we aren't still in the dark ages and the gradual post-modern abandonment of them may well lead us back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Logic and rationale are the only reason we aren't still in the dark ages and the gradual post-modern abandonment of them may well lead us back there. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr gambino Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Ooh! That was one thing I did not include in my list! Arthur Conan Doyle did (Cotingley Fairies) and he made himself look a right tw@t....you see its all about what you want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 +1 Your reply itself raises a number of questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Your reply itself raises a number of questions. Please don't get all existentialist on my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm pretty shocked by this thread I had no idea there'd be so many people here who believed in some of this nonsense. It is our intelligence as human beings and our language that has given us all these whacky ideas about the paranormal and mediums etc, we simply have to believe there is something else, some higher purpose, our minds have evolved to the point where we question everything, because we are the only species on earth who are aware of death and our mortality. The truth, I believe, is quite a lot more depressing than that. We are simply a truly epic coincidence of timing and location, we have evolved from virtually nothing to this point now, where we are "intelligent" enough as a species to be aware of our mortality, and to seek answers. But there are none, we are simply creatures that exist for a brief period, just like rabbits or birds or lions, but we have developed language to speculate. There is no more likelihood of a paranormal state for us than there is for any other creature, we just have the intelligence to speculate that there might be. That said..... Probably more out of hope than anything else, I do suspect there is something else. That maybe every living creature exists somewhere else, at another time, that we are merely occupying this physical form for now. Because there is the hugely unexplained issue of our self-consciousness. I'm talking about how one feels like they are inside their bodies looking out, like there's some center of existence within ourselves that is more than our physical presence on earth. But seeing as we are incapable of imagining the infinite, or what the universe actually is, the answer is obviously beyond us, and the answer might well be that, this internal awareness dies when we do. I've often thought to myself, what happens after is what happened before. Do you remember anything from before you were born? of course not, and you won't remember anything when you go either. Happy Wednesday everyone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingding Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm pretty shocked by this thread I had no idea there'd be so many people here who believed in some of this nonsense. It is our intelligence as human beings and our language that has given us all these whacky ideas about the paranormal and mediums etc, we simply have to believe there is something else, some higher purpose, our minds have evolved to the point where we question everything, because we are the only species on earth who are aware of death and our mortality. The truth, I believe, is quite a lot more depressing than that. We are simply a truly epic coincidence of timing and location, we have evolved from virtually nothing to this point now, where we are "intelligent" enough as a species to be aware of our mortality, and to seek answers. But there are none, we are simply creatures that exist for a brief period, just like rabbits or birds or lions, but we have developed language to speculate. There is no more likelihood of a paranormal state for us than there is for any other creature, we just have the intelligence to speculate that there might be. That said..... Probably more out of hope than anything else, I do suspect there is something else. That maybe every living creature exists somewhere else, at another time, that we are merely occupying this physical form for now. Because there is the hugely unexplained issue of our self-consciousness. I'm talking about how one feels like they are inside their bodies looking out, like there's some center of existence within ourselves that is more than our physical presence on earth. But seeing as we are incapable of imagining the infinite, or what the universe actually is, the answer is obviously beyond us, and the answer might well be that, this internal awareness dies when we do. I've often thought to myself, what happens after is what happened before. Do you remember anything from before you were born? of course not, and you won't remember anything when you go either. Happy Wednesday everyone ! Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm pretty shocked by this thread I had no idea there'd be so many people here who believed in some of this nonsense. That said..... Probably more out of hope than anything else, I do suspect there is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AuntJess Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I died seven years ago but still keep an open mind........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 way to quote me out of context, dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AuntJess Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Tell us more. I suspect he means 'non-rationally' ie 'intuitively', instead of the step-by-step progression that is typical of scientific endeavour. According to Einstein, intuition was very important in discoveries in science. He'd know of course. He could display both logical and intuitive thinking which is why he made his astonishing discoveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I've often thought to myself, what happens after is what happened before. Do you remember anything from before you were born? of course not, and you won't remember anything when you go either. "Such," he said, "O King, seems to me the present life of men on earth, in comparison with that time which to us is uncertain, as if when on a winter's night you sit feasting with your earldormen and brumali --- and a simple sparrow should fly into the hall, and coming in at one door, instantly fly out through another. In that time in which it is indoors it is indeed not touched by the fury of the winter; but yet, this smallest space of calmness being passed almost in a flash, from winter going into winter again, it is lost to our eyes." "Somewhat like this appears the life of man --- but of what follows or what went before, we are utterly ignorant." --- The Venerable Bede Ecclesiastical History, Book II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AuntJess Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 No, it wouldn't be churlish, it would be playing games with the definition of the word "believe". Those who believed in the quantum hypothesis before it was "proven" did so on the basis of mathematics and related experimental results. Those who believe it is the work of nasty elf called Gerald are engaging in a different type of belief, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things unseen" and all that.Logic and rationale are the only reason we aren't still in the dark ages and the gradual post-modern abandonment of them may well lead us back there. Einstein: "Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere." PS I know how much you love famous quotes - so there you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I suspect he means 'non-rationally' ie 'intuitively', instead of the step-by-step progression that is typical of scientific endeavour. According to Einstein, intuition was very important in discoveries in science. He'd know of course. He could display both logical and intuitive thinking which is why he made his astonishing discoveries. I don't see intuition and rational thought as opposites, after all intuition is based on experience of real events i.e. the rational world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptherebels Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 way to quote me out of context, dude Dude? You said it was nonsense, and then said you thought there was something else. What's the problem with context? Lets face it, none of us have a clue, and I guess we never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 "Somewhat like this appears the life of man --- but of what follows or what went before, we are utterly ignorant."--- The Venerable Bede Ecclesiastical History, Book II Except that we're not utterly ignorant of what follows or what went before...science tells us that absolutely nothing happens before or after life. If one decides to ignore that evidence in favour of superstition then fair enough, but to quote Bede as if he has some inner knowledge doesn't change a thing in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AuntJess Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I don't see intuition and rational thought as opposites, after all intuition is based on experience of real events i.e. the rational world. Intuition is summat that comes in 'flashes' - we don't KNOW why we feel summat we just do. I don't mean it is supernatural or that it can't be explained, however. Intuition cannot be taught - unlike reasoning. "Rational" is that which we reason out - step by step - and as such is seen as dissimilar...opposite to 'intuitive'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr C Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I think we have one hell of allot more discoveries in the pipeline with regards to reality, understanding consciousness, time, how and why everything suddenly came into existence, how life itself began. Who knows what we will find out during the next 2000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Intuition is summat that comes in 'flashes' - we don't KNOW why we feel summat we just do. I don't mean it is supernatural or that it can't be explained, however. Intuition cannot be taught - unlike reasoning. "Rational" is that which we reason out - step by step - and as such is seen as dissimilar...opposite to 'intuitive'. I suspect intuition might have more to do with the thoughts that we process in our unconscious states i.e. whilst sleeping. It's widely accepted that there are parts of the brain which do the quick thinking i.e. if I add 2+2 the answer is 4. There are are also parts of the brain which do slower background thinking on the bigger questions. The old adage "to sleep on it" when we have a big decision to make stems from the fact that we assimilate thoughts whilst we sleep, and as a result we'll often feel more able to make that decsion the morning after a good kip. I suspect flashes of intuition are the results of this background thinking. Just my twopenneth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick It Down Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm pretty shocked by this thread I had no idea there'd be so many people here who believed in some of this nonsense. It is our intelligence as human beings and our language that has given us all these whacky ideas about the paranormal and mediums etc, we simply have to believe there is something else, some higher purpose, our minds have evolved to the point where we question everything, because we are the only species on earth who are aware of death and our mortality. The truth, I believe, is quite a lot more depressing than that. We are simply a truly epic coincidence of timing and location, we have evolved from virtually nothing to this point now, where we are "intelligent" enough as a species to be aware of our mortality, and to seek answers. But there are none, we are simply creatures that exist for a brief period, just like rabbits or birds or lions, but we have developed language to speculate. There is no more likelihood of a paranormal state for us than there is for any other creature, we just have the intelligence to speculate that there might be. That said..... Probably more out of hope than anything else, I do suspect there is something else. That maybe every living creature exists somewhere else, at another time, that we are merely occupying this physical form for now. Because there is the hugely unexplained issue of our self-consciousness. I'm talking about how one feels like they are inside their bodies looking out, like there's some center of existence within ourselves that is more than our physical presence on earth. But seeing as we are incapable of imagining the infinite, or what the universe actually is, the answer is obviously beyond us, and the answer might well be that, this internal awareness dies when we do. I've often thought to myself, what happens after is what happened before. Do you remember anything from before you were born? of course not, and you won't remember anything when you go either. Happy Wednesday everyone ! Where this leads... before you were conceived "you" had no consciousness, nothing. And yet your consciousness came about and you obtained a priate view on the world. This place you were in before you were conceived is the same place of nothingness you will inhabit after you die. However, since from this nothingness you hae obtained consciousness in your current life, the probability of becoming conscious is clearly non-zero. Given enough time, after "you" die, your will take on consciousness again and another private universe. That "your" consciousness came from nothing once already means that reincarnation is a fact. The only question is what "you" come back as and when and in which universe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick It Down Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I suspect intuition might have more to do with the thoughts that we process in our unconscious states i.e. whilst sleeping. It's widely accepted that there are parts of the brain which do the quick thinking i.e. if I add 2+2 the answer is 4. There are are also parts of the brain which do slower background thinking on the bigger questions. The old adage "to sleep on it" when we have a big decision to make stems from the fact that we assimilate thoughts whilst we sleep, and as a result we'll often feel more able to make that decsion the morning after a good kip. I suspect flashes of intuition are the results of this background thinking. Just my twopenneth. I agree with this..I've also seen intuition go very badly wrong. Sorry to hark back to an earlier troll, but it does usually seem to be middle-aged women (and flamers) who think they know people better than they actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loginandtonic Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm pretty shocked by this thread I had no idea there'd be so many people here who believed in some of this nonsense. ;;; Happy Wednesday everyone ! thats absolutely what i would have said if you'd asked me about 18 years ago, i got a right rude awakening from that notion i can tell you, but absolutely dont blame anyone for thinking those of us who have seen or heard things are barmy, i used to too of course i'd not have said happy wednesday everyone unless it was wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatcherschild Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm not sure if it counts as paranormal, but I do believe I have someone watching over me. A guardian Angel if you like, but I don't believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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