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TheGoodlife

Can Someone Explain Please?

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Needs some help as I'm confused.com

Government debt is obviously huge at the moment, has risen a lot recently and is a big problem.

I'm sure a read recently (but can't find the link) that government debt has risen buy something like £160bn this year?

In the media etc there is huge talk of the need for cuts and the fact they we are going to paying back this debt for generations.

But it also said something like £140bn of that debt was for bank bailouts.

This is where I get confused. I thought that this bank bailout stuff wasn't a handout to the banks, but the government buying shares in places like Lloyds and buying NR completely?

And if the banking sector continues to improve, the government would get this money back (give or take a small %)

So, does anyone know, what the % of this 140bn "given" to banks, the government is likely to get back, if (and this, I suppose is a big if) the banking sector continues to improve?

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We wont be getting significant amounts of the bailout money back.

That was never part of the deal, it was only to asuage the righteous anger of the masses.

Of course, I'd like to be proved wrong.

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We wont be getting significant amounts of the bailout money back.

That was never part of the deal, it was only to asuage the righteous anger of the masses.

Of course, I'd like to be proved wrong.

Is that a fact?

Because we have "bought" shares with Lloyds etc, haven't we, which can be sold?

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We wont be getting significant amounts of the bailout money back.

That was never part of the deal, it was only to asuage the righteous anger of the masses.

Of course, I'd like to be proved wrong.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ What the General said. :(

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Needs some help as I'm confused.com

Government debt is obviously huge at the moment, has risen a lot recently and is a big problem.

I'm sure a read recently (but can't find the link) that government debt has risen buy something like £160bn this year?

In the media etc there is huge talk of the need for cuts and the fact they we are going to paying back this debt for generations.

But it also said something like £140bn of that debt was for bank bailouts.

This is where I get confused. I thought that this bank bailout stuff wasn't a handout to the banks, but the government buying shares in places like Lloyds and buying NR completely?

And if the banking sector continues to improve, the government would get this money back (give or take a small %)

So, does anyone know, what the % of this 140bn "given" to banks, the government is likely to get back, if (and this, I suppose is a big if) the banking sector continues to improve?

Look it up ;)

(EDIT TO ADD: the UK bit is further down the page under World bailout bit)

(BTW it is going to cost much more than £140bn (Also add... in interest alone).. and to think they can't even stop them giving bonuses :lol: )

Edited by Bubble&Squeak

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Can Someone Explain Please?, Government Debt levels

For this you will need the following:

1 large tub of vaseline.

1 extremely amorous male elephant.

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Am I going to get a decent answer or not?

Good life, it's a fair question. I don't know the answer for sure. I believe the money wasn't "given" to the banks like you say, but more that they were guarantees. You really would be better off researching it. This site is full of people who are negative and simplistic and can spend hours writing ill-informed and reactionary peices about asylum seekers,gypsies, dole scroungers etc however what very few of them can do is provide a rational, cogent answer to a question like yours (psstt...it doesn't really interest them because the answer may be more complex and besides ranting is so much more satisfying)

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[sNIP

spend hours writing ill-informed and reactionary peices about asylum seekers,gypsies, dole scroungers etc however what very few of them can do is provide a rational, cogent answer to a question like yours (psstt...it doesn't really interest them because the answer may be more complex and besides ranting is so much more satisfying)

:lol::lol:

Good life, it's a fair question. I don't know the answer for sure. I believe the money wasn't "given" to the banks like you say, but more that they were guarantees.

The bailout consisted of:

Loans/Recap/Cash injection

Guarantees

Share Purchase

Some will definitely be clawed back... just hope they make a better market judgement than Brown did when he sold a big ol' chuck of our gold reserves.

The worrying bits are the loans and the interest... no body knows how much it is going to cost and quite frankly that worries me :ph34r:

Edit: clarity

Edited by Bubble&Squeak

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This is where I get confused. I thought that this bank bailout stuff wasn't a handout to the banks, but the government buying shares in places like Lloyds and buying NR completely?

And if the banking sector continues to improve, the government would get this money back (give or take a small %)

It was a combination, the government gave the banks more than the value of the share they got in return. Unless there is an other major bank/financial boom, the government will only receive a small % of the cost of the shares when they sell them.

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Needs some help as I'm confused.com

Government debt is obviously huge at the moment, has risen a lot recently and is a big problem.

I'm sure a read recently (but can't find the link) that government debt has risen buy something like £160bn this year?

In the media etc there is huge talk of the need for cuts and the fact they we are going to paying back this debt for generations.

But it also said something like £140bn of that debt was for bank bailouts.

This is where I get confused. I thought that this bank bailout stuff wasn't a handout to the banks, but the government buying shares in places like Lloyds and buying NR completely?

And if the banking sector continues to improve, the government would get this money back (give or take a small %)

So, does anyone know, what the % of this 140bn "given" to banks, the government is likely to get back, if (and this, I suppose is a big if) the banking sector continues to improve?

It'll be sold off to private shareholders in a few years - the flotation will be offered to the general pubic as well as instituitional investors and as usual the management fees will be colossal.

When you're checking on the size of the debt see if you can find any voices in dissent from Her Majesty's Opposition - either the leader or his shadow chancellor. I suspect the only note of caution will be that of Vince Cable - wee Georgie hadn't reached that chapter in his GCSE Economics book.

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It'll be sold off to private shareholders in a few years - the flotation will be offered to the general pubic as well as instituitional investors and as usual the management fees will be colossal.

When you're checking on the size of the debt see if you can find any voices in dissent from Her Majesty's Opposition - either the leader or his shadow chancellor. I suspect the only note of caution will be that of Vince Cable - wee Georgie hadn't reached that chapter in his GCSE Economics book.

That’ll be about right I think. The banks have been funded by the public and the future public so that their lifestyles deteriorate while the status quo is managed (the rich stay rich and get to use and abuse the planet and the masses as they have for a long long time).

In time, the banks will lend the newly created money (QE), things will pick up and the banks will pitch options – they’ll all go to the aforementioned rich. The banks will then ‘pay the public back’ with the QE cash that has gone round the houses and the original loan will be all but worthless. The shares however will be many times the price the government paid.

In all, you can be sure the public will be out of pocket.

Or there could be a revolution. Let’s hope so.

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As I understand it the debt breaks down into many parts.

The 150bn-200bn of extra borrowing for this year does include the bailouts. Costs have increased (extra welfare, stimulus etc), but tax receipts have collapsed.

There's also other hidden stuff that doesn't show up in the debt.

PPP (or PPI?) is off balance sheet debt.

Unfunded pensions are over 1tr.

The total debt is shocking and no idea how it will ever be paid back.

... for what it's worth, I don't think they'll lose too much of the bailout and liquidity money, but no-one can be sure.

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Wow, so much total and utter rubbish being written in this thread.

The public will get its money back, albeit probably over a longer time frame than was originally envisaged.

Money will almost certainly be lost in the bad-bank portion of Northern Rock.

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It'll be sold off to private shareholders in a few years - the flotation will be offered to the general pubic as well as instituitional investors and as usual the management fees will be colossal.

When you're checking on the size of the debt see if you can find any voices in dissent from Her Majesty's Opposition - either the leader or his shadow chancellor. I suspect the only note of caution will be that of Vince Cable - wee Georgie hadn't reached that chapter in his GCSE Economics book.

Covered up to at least November 2008 by explicit promises that Labour's spending was so wise and correct, they'd do the same only with additional tax cuts because there was no need to fix the roof while the sun was shining this side of 2012. Although I don't think Cameron he has yet to go back on promising to raise NHS spending above inflation through to 2013(?)

The interesting thing about Oiky Osborne's budget matching promise was that he endorsed the spending plans before the Cabinet themselves did. Doh.

Edited by Cogs

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Wow, so much total and utter rubbish being written in this thread.

The public will get its money back, albeit probably over a longer time frame than was originally envisaged.

Money will almost certainly be lost in the bad-bank portion of Northern Rock.

:lol::lol::lol: . Do you base that judgement on a crystal ball, a time machine, or interesting pharmaceuticals?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money

You're not wrong there.

Edited by General Melchett

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