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Guest KingCharles1st

And Now Clegg Makes Three...

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Guest KingCharles1st

-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

Edited by KingCharles1st

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thats why we need to reduce the size of government...because we dont make as much as we need to cover the cost.

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-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

Or take the shortcut and devalue the currency then live in pleasant austerity.

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-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

Bang on,

Now we have proved we are useless at banking too it is now left for us to sell each other insurance and any other useless c**p we can convince people they need

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It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Export what? And to whom?

Have a look at Germany, did their stimulus to revive export-oriented sectors of economy help them to avoid recession?

I'm afraid, it's all boils down to degree of interfering with natural way of markets. Consider this:

China's stimulus is 13% of GDP and China expansion rate slowed to 6%.

US stimulus is 20% of GDP and they've got 3% contraction.

Russia committed 40% of GDP for stimulus and got 10% contraction.

Inference: stop making up things and pretending that bailouts/exports/stimulus/pay cuts instead of mass layoffs/mortgage modifications/"keeping people in their homes" etc are magic panaceas and let the market correct itself. Period.

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-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

So true but as all our politicians from each party are generally 'professional' politicians, lawyers or some such parasitical profession none of them has the vaguest idea of what you are talking about. Liebour still the worst of an appalling bunch of course.

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Export what? And to whom?

Have a look at Germany, did their stimulus to revive export-oriented sectors of economy help them to avoid recession?

I'm afraid, it's all boils down to degree of interfering with natural way of markets. Consider this:

China's stimulus is 13% of GDP and China expansion rate slowed to 6%.

US stimulus is 20% of GDP and they've got 3% contraction.

Russia committed 40% of GDP for stimulus and got 10% contraction.

Inference: stop making up things and pretending that bailouts/exports/stimulus/pay cuts instead of mass layoffs/mortgage modifications/"keeping people in their homes" etc are magic panaceas and let the market correct itself. Period.

Its looking more and more like .. accelerating the downturn and not fighting it would have been the better option .. let the failed companies banks & individuals fail and that would have helped the recovery ..

Edited by moneyfornothing

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I think what his majesty means by 'making things' is creating value. This could be making a physical object that someone wants to buy, or could be producing something less tangible.

But whatever, it is still going to be hard work.

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This could be making a physical object that someone wants to buy, or could be producing something less tangible.

How about innovative financial products?

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Its looking more and more like .. accelerating the downturn and not fighting it would have been the better option .. let the failed companies banks & individuals fail and that would have helped the recovery ..

We can't have bona fide capitalism you know !! Failing companies should be helped drag their failing feet for as long as possible. What could possibly go wrong.

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We have chosen to build a high cost economy because that's what really clever people do, unfortunately it assumes everyone else is dumb ass's and could be as clever as us.

Essentially it's racism that other countries couldn't possible do what we do.

They can and they can do if for less because they haven't inflated there economy away.

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We do have a talent for invention.

As far as actually inventing a thing, we have a tendency to either give it away for free, or see other countries develop a better version. As for international diplomacy, this talent for making things up has served us well over the last few decades. When a man stands in front of you and lies about his nation's intentions towards yours, it helps his plausibility if he has invented an alternative truth that he inhabits - that is to say, if he actually believes those lies.

We found a synergy between these two aspects of invention for a while with financial products: We invented stuff that worked, and then wrapped these products in a complex cloak of misrepresentation. I can't see this model working now: people want transparency, not incomprehensible jargon. Some nations already appear to be thinking about moving away from our entire financial system. Now we are once again exposed as perfidious Albion, I doubt our talent for lies will count for much.

Edited by Timm

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We do have a talent for invention.

As far as actually inventing a thing, we have a tendency to either give it away for free, or see other countries develop a better version.

Why would one want to develop a better version if a thing can be obtained for free?

I think you are mixing up the invention recognition in Britain and overseas: the thing which is designed in Britain but not recognised here as a true invention whereas being recognised, ordered, purchased and fully paid by overseas customers is perceived later as "given away for free". Cue Vickers 6-ton tank, most mass-produced tank (together with Russian T26s which were based on Vickers) before WWII if you exclude brontozaur FT-17

Edited by matroskin

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-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

Bang on....it is like watching a 'who is going to cut what...and why' merry-go-round, absoloodle no recognition of our dire circumstances, just another opportunity to grab a vote or two....

W****ers, all of them

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Essentially it's racism that other countries couldn't possible do what we do.

I agree- the whole notion of a 'knowlege based economy' was essentialy premised on the racist idea that brown and yellow people are intrinsicly less intelligent than ango saxon white people- a totaly absurd idea.

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I agree- the whole notion of a 'knowlege based economy' was essentialy premised on the racist idea that brown and yellow people are intrinsicly less intelligent than ango saxon white people- a totaly absurd idea.

Is it not more to do with accrued observation rather than racism?

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-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

Managed decline it is then, seems strange to have actively chosen it.

I thought this when they started talking about "the age of austerity".

Presumably its a bit like Churchill speaking about "the age of living directly across the channel from Greater Germany".

Edited by Cogs

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Export what? And to whom?

Have a look at Germany, did their stimulus to revive export-oriented sectors of economy help them to avoid recession?

I'm afraid, it's all boils down to degree of interfering with natural way of markets. Consider this:

China's stimulus is 13% of GDP and China expansion rate slowed to 6%.

US stimulus is 20% of GDP and they've got 3% contraction.

Russia committed 40% of GDP for stimulus and got 10% contraction.

Inference: stop making up things and pretending that bailouts/exports/stimulus/pay cuts instead of mass layoffs/mortgage modifications/"keeping people in their homes" etc are magic panaceas and let the market correct itself. Period.

And I'm afraid your medicine will kill the patient. Followed by the implosion of our national institutions, banks, government and possibly Monarchy. Then what.

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-idiots who think fixing the economy is about cutting expenditure.

It certainly helps, but do we no longer have ANYONE who really understands that WE NEED TO MAKE THINGS AND EXPORT THEM?

Contracts are being lost every hour, day and week, because the UK CANNOT COMPETE ANYMORE.

W****ers, all of them

W.I.F.I.

Yes, - where any long term recovery must indeed come from.

Surely devaluing sterling by minting hundreds of billions and sticking interest rates at 0.5% would appear, on the face of it, pretty solid support for the export industry?

Besides, the debate is really between spending cuts and tax hikes. Intuitively it must be the case that increasing taxation has a significant negative impact on funding for entrepreneurs and R&D. Consequently cutting public spending is, relative to the alternative, tacit support for inventiveness.

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And I'm afraid your medicine will kill the patient. Followed by the implosion of our national institutions, banks, government and possibly Monarchy. Then what.

This medicine was used before and it did not kill the patient when applied during Long Depression

Besides tariff policy, governments of the time were not closely involved in managing the economy. According to the tenets of classic liberalism, it was generally believed that it was not the government's role to intervene in the economy, and thus little was done.

What makes you think this time the same medicine effect would be different? Yes, we will probably get Long Depression II for the same 6 years. But nothing like Great Depression which lasted 10+ years (from 1929 till WWII began).

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Guest KingCharles1st
Yes, - where any long term recovery must indeed come from.

Surely devaluing sterling by minting hundreds of billions and sticking interest rates at 0.5% would appear, on the face of it, pretty solid support for the export industry?

Besides, the debate is really between spending cuts and tax hikes. Intuitively it must be the case that increasing taxation has a significant negative impact on funding for entrepreneurs and R&D. Consequently cutting public spending is, relative to the alternative, tacit support for inventiveness.

My o.p. was more to do with the fact that firstly Brown, then Dave the rave, now Cleggy are all jumping up and down shouting CUT CUT CUT! -Yet nobody seems to have any ideas of how to get things moving in the right direction, and I now more than ever doubt that they even have a clue of what the right direction is. Sitting around waiting for the recovery is like turning the lights off and drawing the curtains, and hoping the J.W.s don't call because they will think you are out!

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Sitting around waiting for the recovery is like turning the lights off and drawing the curtains, and hoping the J.W.s don't call because they will think you are out!

This is exactly what would bring the natural and fast recovery if all G8 govts would just draw the curtains and do not interfere ANY MORE. During that time, paying them their inflated ministerial salaries and even bonuses for non-performance would be the cheaper option.

Important qualifying statement: the drawing of curtains should have started now and not back in Oct 2008. Govts did their job to stop panic and now it's not too late yet for markets to finally correct themselves.

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