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Buying In South Belfast

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Hi !

I just moved to Belfast and looking for property to buy. Since I am completely new in NI (not saying first time buyer :) I will be grateful if you could help me out.

I am concentrating on South Belfast Area+BT7 - is it a right choice?

I saw couple of properties which are good enough in the range of 300-350 k, and made an offer of ~15% less. However, after a while agents always reply "The owner does not want that price". End of story. What do I do wrong?

Is it all right to contact home owners by knocking their door couple of days after you saw the property with estate agent? Just discuss the price with them directly? Is it possible to bypass estate agency? Or disturbing owners in person is considered some sort of evil deed and nobody would shake hands with you after that?

Final question - buy now or wait until Christmas?

Thanks and sorry for very naive approach.

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Thanks and sorry for very naive approach.

Actually, on second thoughts, buy now. I need as many people to buy now at todays high prices so I will have less people to compete with at Christmas 2010.

Good luck,

BB :D

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Hi !

I just moved to Belfast and looking for property to buy. Since I am completely new in NI (not saying first time buyer :) I will be grateful if you could help me out.

I am concentrating on South Belfast Area+BT7 - is it a right choice?

I saw couple of properties which are good enough in the range of 300-350 k, and made an offer of ~15% less. However, after a while agents always reply "The owner does not want that price". End of story. What do I do wrong?

Is it all right to contact home owners by knocking their door couple of days after you saw the property with estate agent? Just discuss the price with them directly? Is it possible to bypass estate agency? Or disturbing owners in person is considered some sort of evil deed and nobody would shake hands with you after that?

Final question - buy now or wait until Christmas?

Thanks and sorry for very naive approach.

I've never done the knocking on doors thing, but when I was last placing offers in early 2008 I was really hoping they would say no because I thought my 25% below offers where too generous. As it turns out I was right by more than I could have dreamed at the time.

I'd have to be consistent and advise you to rent, If you are thinking of buying @ 350K, it won't buy you that much at the moment. N.Ireland renting housing is much more VFM than mainland. For the sort of money you'd be paying a mortgage you could get somewhere 3 times higher in 'value' by renting instead and try out an area for little risk. Or save corresponding amounts by staying similar to what you want you feel comfortable buying at. If prices continue to go down as we expect, the house will lose value faster than giving it to a LL (and the mortgage will be much more than the rent). Have a look at 4 bed detached for rent on property news, wait a couple of weeks for something decent to come up.

We've had a much bigger boom here than anywhere else and a much lower wage inflation, heavily dependant on public sector jobs, much more crashing to come. Its paused right now, but just wait for the dust to settle on those gov't cut policies.

East Belfast and North down are also nice areas near Belfast worth looking at.

How about this for £800/month

http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...=1&sort=h2l

Probably go on sale for £550K now.

Might not include rates, but top road beside Stormont.

Even if you have £300k deposit you will lose that money faster by buying. A further 10% drop is worth say £33K, and you can rent the above house for that for 3.5 years (more if it includes rates which most do).

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Have to agree - buying makes no sense at the moment. All the experts (except those with a Vested interest) are expecting another 20% drop here.

Most of the private sellers here are still deluded

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Actually, on second thoughts, buy now. I need as many people to buy now at todays high prices so I will have less people to compete with at Christmas 2010.

Thanks, Belfast Boy.

Hm... I checked out this forums threads... It seems that nobody here is in favour of buying now. There are 20 users here actively pushing forward the idea of "it is stupid toi buy now". At the same time my impression from the agents and 4 months of propertynews watching is that people buying anyway, even at this "overvalued" prices. Paradox, don't you think?

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I've never done the knocking on doors thing, but when I was last placing offers in early 2008 I was really hoping they would say no because I thought my 25% below offers where too generous. As it turns out I was right by more than I could have dreamed at the time.

I'd have to be consistent and advise you to rent, If you are thinking of buying @ 350K, it won't buy you that much at the moment. N.Ireland renting housing is much more VFM than mainland. For the sort of money you'd be paying a mortgage you could get somewhere 3 times higher in 'value' by renting instead and try out an area for little risk. Or save corresponding amounts by staying similar to what you want you feel comfortable buying at. If prices continue to go down as we expect, the house will lose value faster than giving it to a LL (and the mortgage will be much more than the rent). Have a look at 4 bed detached for rent on property news, wait a couple of weeks for something decent to come up.

Even if you have £300k deposit you will lose that money faster by buying. A further 10% drop is worth say £33K, and you can rent the above house for that for 3.5 years (more if it includes rates which most do).

Appreciate you elaborated answer.

but I will be paying money to somebody else, not trying to repay my mortgage and possess my sweet home, right? May be I do not understand something?? Anyway, let's look at the bright side - what would be positives of buying right now?

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Appreciate you elaborated answer.

but I will be paying money to somebody else, not trying to repay my mortgage and possess my sweet home, right? May be I do not understand something?? Anyway, let's look at the bright side - what would be positives of buying right now?

no difference between paying mortgage interest to bank and paying rent to landlord

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Thanks, Belfast Boy.

Hm... I checked out this forums threads... It seems that nobody here is in favour of buying now. There are 20 users here actively pushing forward the idea of "it is stupid toi buy now". At the same time my impression from the agents and 4 months of propertynews watching is that people buying anyway, even at this "overvalued" prices. Paradox, don't you think?

The clue is in the websites name.

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The clue is in the websites name.

The websites name has nothing to do with when to buy property. Which was his original question.

In my opinion 2012-2013 will be a good time to buy. I am just looking for a 3-bed semi and hope to have around 40-50% deposit come that time. (I'm guessing I could get a house for around £100,000?)

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The websites name has nothing to do with when to buy property. Which was his original question.

In my opinion 2012-2013 will be a good time to buy. I am just looking for a 3-bed semi and hope to have around 40-50% deposit come that time. (I'm guessing I could get a house for around £100,000?)

I suggest you read what I was replying to before you start being a feck wit.

Go slap your ma for not teaching you manners.

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The websites name has nothing to do with when to buy property. Which was his original question.

In my opinion 2012-2013 will be a good time to buy. I am just looking for a 3-bed semi and hope to have around 40-50% deposit come that time. (I'm guessing I could get a house for around £100,000?)

I would imagine that 2012-2013 would be a better time to buy than now Marty. With a 40-50% deposit you want to make sure you are buying as close to the bottom as possible as it's your money and not the banks ;)

I suggest you read what I was replying to before you start being a feck wit.

Go slap your ma for not teaching you manners.

What is wrong with you! :angry: Get your anger sorted.

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Appreciate you elaborated answer.

but I will be paying money to somebody else, not trying to repay my mortgage and possess my sweet home

Yes that would be the same for most interest only mortgages, and even a repayment mortgage you are not paying much towards the house. Personally I would rather give money to a LL than a banker right now. You get a lot more quality of life for the monthly cost.

I guess it depends what you think will happen to house prices. Buying is cheaper long term, but the period for buying to be better has gotten longer and longer so now it about 10 years. When I originally bought it cost the same to rent as to buy.

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What is wrong with you! :angry: Get your anger sorted.

Nothing wrong with me.

If a poster wants to come off with some smart @ss comment like... "The websites name has nothing to do with when to buy property. Which was his original question".

You would think they would read the OP's questions. The original question was, is the area he is looking at the right area, followed up with 5 further questions before asking a final question of when to buy.

I don't think my reply was in anger just a response to a poster jumping in with a smart @ss answer without reading what I was replying to and what the OP's questions where.

Don't know why you never pointed that out to MartyisGood.

Anyway you have a nice day. XOXO

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I would imagine that 2012-2013 would be a better time to buy than now Marty. With a 40-50% deposit you want to make sure you are buying as close to the bottom as possible as it's your money and not the banks ;)

Totally agree with you on that one Sophia. I would rather rent and try my best to accumulate a reasonable deposit in hopes of making the overall mortgage somewhat easier to manage. I'm thinking the end of 2012 and start of 2013 might be a good time. But I could be horribly wrong! Will approach this day-by-day :)

Appreciate the advice, thanks again.

I suggest you read what I was replying to before you start being a feck wit.

Go slap your ma for not teaching you manners.

You need to go and get the left-side of your brain checked out by your doctor. Logic definately doesn't come into your posts which exude delinquency. No offence intended.

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My plan was going to be sit it out for a few years and then buy a nice semi for 100K in East Belfast when everything bottoms out but I think now that they won't let that happen - massive inflation will happen and prices will stagnate.

I hope I am wrong.

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Thanks Ride-on, I see the point now.

So, the main idea is that the prices will go down. But aside from apocalyptic scenario, if buying now anyway, would it make any difference whether to buy a new house or old one, 15% or 60% deposit?

Thanks.

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Without knowing all your preferences and circumstances it would be impossible to comment really. You would be better discussing this with a mortgage broker or financial advisor. Read through some of the other threads on the Belfast market and they will give you an idea of our opinions.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=105575

Thanks. Very useful link you gave.

Yes, I talked to several mortgage advisers, however the question is what is better investment (do not laugh : ), old 3-4 bedrooms house in BT9 or new one in BT7 or BT10? Since I can get a mortgage and have necessary deposit the question is now or later? Should I pay more for the possibility solve problem once and for all or sit and wait in rented property for 2 (or 5) more years? Is it wise to pay more for the comfort now?

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Thanks. Very useful link you gave.

Yes, I talked to several mortgage advisers, however the question is what is better investment (do not laugh : ), old 3-4 bedrooms house in BT9 or new one in BT7 or BT10? Since I can get a mortgage and have necessary deposit the question is now or later? Should I pay more for the possibility solve problem once and for all or sit and wait in rented property for 2 (or 5) more years? Is it wise to pay more for the comfort now?

How is a new house any more comfortable than an old house? It might be more efficient, but really depends on upkeep etc. I hate most of the new builds, its all open lawns, small rooms, low ceilings etc and they can be susceptible to build quality problems.

I wouldn't know the relative merits of the choices you suggest, its all down to your preferences.

It would cost £3000 a month on mortgage to buy the place I am in, aswell as a big down payment. I rent it for £850/month. This is the huge discrepancy in affordability I talked about and why I say you should rent for now as buying is not a good investment. But I would also suggest that you are buying a home and it is not an investment. This is the big mistake that many people have made, including myself (in mind at least).

The obvious point is, if you accept houses are going down in value and renting is cheaper than buying on a monthly basis then you are better of renting.

In my view you get less comfort now by buying as you get less house for your money (area, size, gerden etc), if you wait you will be able to afford much more, but you can have that level of comfort now by renting a good place.

Most of us here want to buy, but chose to rent until we can afford something decent. Some have sold (at peak) to rent, to cash in on the peak (which is a bit greedy IMO) but no worse than 90% of the population. A few have bought on a very good deal (less than rateable value).

If you can afford it and are happy with what you can get then go for it. Perhaps you have equity from a previous sale at peak, in which case you are probably just buying at the same or better level you sold at.

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How is a new house any more comfortable than an old house? It might be more efficient, but really depends on upkeep etc. I hate most of the new builds, its all open lawns, small rooms, low ceilings etc and they can be susceptible to build quality problems.

I wouldn't know the relative merits of the choices you suggest, its all down to your preferences.

It would cost £3000 a month on mortgage to buy the place I am in, aswell as a big down payment. I rent it for £850/month. This is the huge discrepancy in affordability I talked about and why I say you should rent for now as buying is not a good investment. But I would also suggest that you are buying a home and it is not an investment. This is the big mistake that many people have made, including myself (in mind at least).

The obvious point is, if you accept houses are going down in value and renting is cheaper than buying on a monthly basis then you are better of renting.

In my view you get less comfort now by buying as you get less house for your money (area, size, gerden etc), if you wait you will be able to afford much more, but you can have that level of comfort now by renting a good place.

Most of us here want to buy, but chose to rent until we can afford something decent. Some have sold (at peak) to rent, to cash in on the peak (which is a bit greedy IMO) but no worse than 90% of the population. A few have bought on a very good deal (less than rateable value).

If you can afford it and are happy with what you can get then go for it. Perhaps you have equity from a previous sale at peak, in which case you are probably just buying at the same or better level you sold at.

Thank you indeed, Ride_on.I guess you are right, but to put it simple - so far I saw houses with rent higher than possible

monthly mortgage repayment. May be I am using wrong agencies???

I have been reading this forum for a while but have no idea about very simple things : ) Just very basic question: why the would buyer want to make an independent evaluation? I mean you can make this evaluation only after the agreement is done? Or you saw a house, asked agent about price, then called "independent evaluator"

and he said that the price is not 100 but 80. But estate agency still want 100 and will not sell for 80. What is the point?

Another thing is "rateable value" - what does it mean in simple term? And why people talking about "RV" if agencies sells houses far above that price?

Sorry for the offtop, but I was always afraid of all these accounting and legislation things...

Thanks.

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Thank you indeed, Ride_on.I guess you are right, but to put it simple - so far I saw houses with rent higher than possible

monthly mortgage repayment. May be I am using wrong agencies???

I have been reading this forum for a while but have no idea about very simple things : ) Just very basic question: why the would buyer want to make an independent evaluation? I mean you can make this evaluation only after the agreement is done? Or you saw a house, asked agent about price, then called "independent evaluator"

and he said that the price is not 100 but 80. But estate agency still want 100 and will not sell for 80. What is the point?

Another thing is "rateable value" - what does it mean in simple term? And why people talking about "RV" if agencies sells houses far above that price?

Sorry for the offtop, but I was always afraid of all these accounting and legislation things...

Thanks.

I would look at monthly rental versus an interest only mortgage. Factor in the additional cost of rates, buildings insurance, stamp duty, legal fees remembering that mortgage rates will only climb in the long-term. However, the BoE seems to be heading down the inflationary approach to the debt crisis

RV or rateable value was an independent valuation of NI residential property for rating purposes in Jan '05 (pre-boom) and acts as a approximate barometer to where a 40-50% fall from peak value would take us. (We are now pretty much there)

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Thank you indeed, Ride_on.I guess you are right, but to put it simple - so far I saw houses with rent higher than possible

monthly mortgage repayment. May be I am using wrong agencies???

I have been reading this forum for a while but have no idea about very simple things : ) Just very basic question: why the would buyer want to make an independent evaluation? I mean you can make this evaluation only after the agreement is done? Or you saw a house, asked agent about price, then called "independent evaluator"

and he said that the price is not 100 but 80. But estate agency still want 100 and will not sell for 80. What is the point?

Another thing is "rateable value" - what does it mean in simple term? And why people talking about "RV" if agencies sells houses far above that price?

Sorry for the offtop, but I was always afraid of all these accounting and legislation things...

Thanks.

The only agency you need is property news. You'd need to present some example of buying and renting, and there are many for sale and rent. If you are counting in your deposit to reduce the mortgage, you need to consider that you will be giving this away to the bank and it will disappear as prices go down, the banks want it for this reason so they don't get a toxic asset, why not give it to a LL? As I said you will get a better quality of life. Renting is definitely cheaper now and will be for some time, buying really doesn't make financial sense unless you are being offered exceptional bargains.

You are right about independent evaluations, I don't understand either. You just need a good survey to make sure there is nothing hidden wrong with the house, otherwise the price you agree is the 'value', its between you and the seller. Mortgage companies may well have their own valuations and it may affect whether you get finance or not. Some people who have agreed to buy off plan, are now looking for high independent valuations so that they can get finance rather than go bankrupt.

If we use RV we can compare house prices relatively. At peak they were maybe 2x RV, now closer to 1.2xRV, but some are still on sale for 2xRV. Its useful if you don't know the area, and also that we have no public record of sale prices like England. It can help you to be not ripped off.

http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/search.asp?submit=form

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The only agency you need is property news. You'd need to present some example of buying and renting, and there are many for sale and rent. If you are counting in your deposit to reduce the mortgage, you need to consider that you will be giving this away to the bank and it will disappear as prices go down, the banks want it for this reason so they don't get a toxic asset, why not give it to a LL? As I said you will get a better quality of life. Renting is definitely cheaper now and will be for some time, buying really doesn't make financial sense unless you are being offered exceptional bargains.

You are right about independent evaluations, I don't understand either. You just need a good survey to make sure there is nothing hidden wrong with the house, otherwise the price you agree is the 'value', its between you and the seller. Mortgage companies may well have their own valuations and it may affect whether you get finance or not. Some people who have agreed to buy off plan, are now looking for high independent valuations so that they can get finance rather than go bankrupt.

If we use RV we can compare house prices relatively. At peak they were maybe 2x RV, now closer to 1.2xRV, but some are still on sale for 2xRV. Its useful if you don't know the area, and also that we have no public record of sale prices like England. It can help you to be not ripped off.

http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/search.asp?submit=form

Wow! This is very useful. I tried lrni.gov.uk, but found that not all properties have price record. Is RV equal to Capital value? But what does it mean if the value in that site is 10% less than the price agency suggested? is it actual ripping off or just a low scale ripping off? : )

I understand the idea with the deposit/mortgage, it makes sense for me now. Thanks.

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The only agency you need is property news.

If we use RV we can compare house prices relatively. At peak they were maybe 2x RV, now closer to 1.2xRV, but some are still on sale for 2xRV. Its useful if you don't know the area, and also that we have no public record of sale prices like England. It can help you to be not ripped off.

http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/search.asp?submit=form

www.nestoria.co.uk is good too and www.propertypal.com

as for RV im seeing gradually more and more in and around RV in South Belfast. slowly slowly catchy monkey!

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<!--quoteo(post=2171048:date=Sep 30 2009, 12:09 AM:name=Ride_on)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ride_on @ Sep 30 2009, 12:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2171048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only agency you need is property news. You'd need to present some example of buying and renting, and there are many for sale and rent. If you are counting in your deposit to reduce the mortgage, you need to consider that you will be giving this away to the bank and it will disappear as prices go down, the banks want it for this reason so they don't get a toxic asset, why not give it to a LL? As I said you will get a better quality of life. Renting is definitely cheaper now and will be for some time, buying really doesn't make financial sense unless you are being offered exceptional bargains.

You are right about independent evaluations, I don't understand either. You just need a good survey to make sure there is nothing hidden wrong with the house, otherwise the price you agree is the 'value', its between you and the seller. Mortgage companies may well have their own valuations and it may affect whether you get finance or not. Some people who have agreed to buy off plan, are now looking for high independent valuations so that they can get finance rather than go bankrupt.

If we use RV we can compare house prices relatively. At peak they were maybe 2x RV, now closer to 1.2xRV, but some are still on sale for 2xRV. Its useful if you don't know the area, and also that we have no public record of sale prices like England. It can help you to be not ripped off.

<a href="http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/search.asp?submit=form" target="_blank">http://vlistdcv.lpsni.gov.uk/search.asp?submit=form</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Wow! This is very useful. I tried lrni.gov.uk, but found that not all properties have price record. Is RV equal to Capital value? But what does it mean if the value in that site is 10% less than the price agency suggested? is it actual ripping off or just a low scale ripping off? : )

I understand the idea with the deposit/mortgage, it makes sense for me now. Thanks.

In N.Ireland it is not a legal requirement to record the sale price at the land registry.

The domestic capital value or RV is the estimated value at Jan 2005 and is used to calculate your rates. We just use it to compare advertised prices between 2 or more houses. There is no right price, but the lack of transparent records leads many sellers or EAs to chance their arms and advertise a very high price. Valuers give another opinion, but as I said it is you and the seller that decide the price to be paid. If you are making offers, then I would start at about 3/4 of RV.

I don't know why you are so concerned about the opinion of the 'valuation agency' (whatever that is), their opinion is irrelevant unless you are have difficulty getting a mortgage. You decide the price, not them.

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