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If The Public Sector Went On Strike...


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Guest Steve Cook
citation or link?

standard sized screw, production lines, thermionic valves, computer networking, batteries and antibiotics were all invented outside of war

famously, of course, rocketry and computers progressed hugely from war

I really need to get to bed. so i don't really have time to cite. however...

a lot of the fundamentals of modern medicine is based on work carried out in the 2nd world war. In particular, developments in surgery.

Much of modern jet powered aviation is based on the work of the Nazis

Pretty much all of modern computing and electronics is based on work during the 2nd world war.

Synthetic rubber and many, many other synthetic materials (including fake fur!) were developed in the 2nd world war

The mass production and use of penicillin was developed in the 2nd world war

Atomic energy was born out of reasearch in the 2nd world war

All those are from memory alone

bored now

nite nite..... ;)

Edited by Steve Cook
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Guest Steve Cook
Ah the good old public sector bashing thread.....

Which reminds me I must check how many free holidays sorry sick days I have left for the year.

:lol:

bet you can't beat mine

Just under 5 months paid holidays (mind you, they completely own my ass for the time i am at work)

however, I am in the private sector

Edited by Steve Cook
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Most major leaps in technological development come in times of war. A time when such technological development is firmly under the direction of central government, by the way.

Private industry then goes on to make much of such technology in terms of development and further refinements. You just seem to conveniently ignore where the innovation often originates.

I say the above without any particular axe to grind, ideologically speaking. I get a sense that your comments, however, are very firmly grounded in a particular ideology

Yep, central government directed things in East Germany and they certainly managed some er....memorable automotive engineering.

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Most major leaps in technological development come in times of war. A time when such technological development is firmly under the direction of central government, by the way.

Private industry then goes on to make much of such technology in terms of development and further refinements. You just seem to conveniently ignore where the innovation often originates.

I say the above without any particular axe to grind, ideologically speaking. I get a sense that your comments, however, are very firmly grounded in a particular ideology

What with WW2, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2, The Cold War (?) does the US actually spend any time when it's not at war ?

I think this view is a bit simplistic. The miltary/private sectors tend to feed off each other in terms of exploitation of research. One of the technologies I use was originally invented by the miltary. But it was not suitable for miltary applications (not radiation hardened). Then the commercial sector took it forwards. Now it's expanded considerably and radiation hardened products are possible and being fed back into the miltary applications.

Military research will spend more on blue skies stuff which although means a lot of stuff comes to nothing when stuff does come through it can be highly innovation.

The military research is funded by tax receipts from the private sector ?

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Yes, everybody knows that doctors, nurses, teachers, firemen, police etc don't actually do anything. The public sector is, by and large, fantastically good value. For £1500 per person per year we get a national health service which will provide you with any healthcare you need and never send you a bill. There is no way a private health system could do the same for that price.

You need to wake up and have a think about what's going on. Nobody minds paying for the services that you've just mentioned but when the public sector are borrowing £175bn a year just to keep afloat then something has gone hideously wrong. Their bill has the potential to drag this country down for years if not decades, they cannot carry on 'fixing' the national finances by spending their way put of trouble. If they do go on strike then I won't be supporting them, despite the minority that actually do offer good value for money.

Edited by chefdave
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I really need to get to bed. so i don't really have time to cite. however...

a lot of the fundamentals of modern medicine is based on work carried out in the 2nd world war. In particular, developments in surgery.

possibly, not my area

Much of modern jet powered aviation is based on the work of the Nazis

no it isn't - turbo jet engines are, and turbofan engines based on this, after the war, and that's as far as it goes

Pretty much all of modern computing and electronics is based on work during the 2nd world war.

no - well early electronic computers, granted, but transistors, ICs, netwroking, OO programming, web-prototcols, GUI interfacing, all developed in peace time.

Synthetic rubber and many, many other synthetic materials (including fake fur!) were developed in the 2nd world war

possibly, not my area

The widespread production and use of penicillin was developed in the 2nd world war

after having been invented only 10 years earlier during peace time

Atomic energy was born out of reasearch in the 2nd world war

nah - the key early work was split between pre-WW1 and pre-WW2, ie foundation atomic physics, rutherford, quantum theory etc

All those are from memory alone

bored now

cheeky

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You need to wake up and have a think about what's going on. Nobody minds paying for the services that you've just mentioned but when the public sector are borrowing £175bn a year just to keep afloat then something has gone hideously wrong. Their bill has the potential to drag this country down for years if not decades, they cannot carry on 'fixing' the national finances by spending their way put of trouble. If they do go on strike then I won't be supporting them, despite the minority that actually do offer good value for money.

It's the govt doing the borrowing you twit, not the public sector.

Christ on a bike, how thick do you have to be? You actually think all the money the Treasury borrows every day from the money markets is to pay for civil servants?

Honestly, the British have to be the stupidest, most economically illiterate bunch of idiots in the world. By all means slash the numbers to 250,000 if it makes you feel good but don't believe for one second that the reduction in expenditure will be anywhere near proportionate. That's just simpleton economics but then most of the private sector are precisely that.

Anyone want to buy my Lloyds Bank shares?

That's the private sector for you, you twit.

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It's the govt doing the borrowing you twit, not the public sector.

Christ on a bike, how thick do you have to be? You actually think all the money the Treasury borrows every day from the money markets is to pay for civil servants?

Honestly, the British have to be the stupidest, most economically illiterate bunch of idiots in the world. By all means slash the numbers to 250,000 if it makes you feel good but don't believe for one second that the reduction in expenditure will be anywhere near proportionate. That's just simpleton economics but then most of the private sector are precisely that.

Anyone want to buy my Lloyds Bank shares?

That's the private sector for you, you twit.

bank bailouts cost 50 to 200 billion depending on whihc numbers you currently trust

public sector deficit otoo 1000 billion

you the twit bro'

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Haha, if the whole public sector went on strike and never came back we would be a lot better off. All they do leech of the productive members of society to support non-productive members (benefits claimants) and themselves. You could make an argument the NHS does some good but they will most as likely kill you as cure you from what I've seen.

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possibly, not my area

no it isn't - turbo jet engines are, and turbofan engines based on this, after the war, and that's as far as it goes

no - well early electronic computers, granted, but transistors, ICs, netwroking, OO programming, web-prototcols, GUI interfacing, all developed in peace time.

possibly, not my area

after having been invented only 10 years earlier during peace time

nah - the key early work was split between pre-WW1 and pre-WW2, ie foundation atomic physics, rutherford, quantum theory etc

cheeky

This is just chicken and egg stuff though. For example, would Flemmings stuff on Penecillin have been funded as well if thousands of soldiers hadn't been dying on the battlefield from infection ?

If you look at something like the Manhatten project, it was practically enabled by the war. But the theoretical calculations didn't need much money. What the war enabled was the huge cost of implementing the isotopic separation of the fissle material.

Just recently I learnt that one of the separation methods used huge electromagnets. Because there was a shortage of copper they made the conducting wire from silver bullion sourced from the US treasury instead, (it was returned to the US treasury afterwards).

Found that really interesting !

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bank bailouts cost 50 to 200 billion depending on whihc numbers you currently trust

public sector deficit otoo 1000 billion

you the twit bro'

The public sector is not the same thing as government borrowing. Not all public spending is spent on the 'public sector'. Although weasel wording to call the national deficit the "public sector deficit" may create that illusion temporarily given the colloquial way in which the term "public sector" is used here. There is public procurement (tens of billion in subsidy to the private sector really), PFI payments, interest payments, bank bail-outs, EU subscriptions, consultancy contracts, IT contracts and benefits amongst other things before anyone working for the state gets paid for doing anything.

It is also pointless spouting on about the absolute level of the national debt as if that has ever been paid off for even a day since such a thing came into being. Christ on a bike, we were renting out the country to the French for part of the 17th century just to cling on (Charles II). And now, suddenly, it has to be paid off in full next year? Its the same cheap stunt as pretending public sector pension liabilities have to be paid in full tomorrow. There are very serious issues with both but you won't really get any support for your position by hyping that which can fend for itself in scaring the crap out of people anyway when presented honestly.

I'm a bit disappointed in you actually, you don't usually post this brand of cheap tripe.

Hopefully its the drink talking, judging by the errant typing, and normal service will be resumed shortly. :(

Edited by Cogs
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This is just chicken and egg stuff though. For example, would Flemmings stuff on Penecillin have been funded as well if thousands of soldiers hadn't been dying on the battlefield from infection ?

If you look at something like the Manhatten project, it was practically enabled by the war. But the theoretical calculations didn't need much money. What the war enabled was the huge cost of implementing the isotopic separation of the fissle material.

Just recently I learnt that one of the separation methods used huge electromagnets. Because there was a shortage of copper they made the conducting wire from silver bullion sourced from the US treasury instead, (it was returned to the US treasury afterwards).

Found that really interesting !

broadly agree with you - I suppose it's debatable exactly how much (I guess in financial terms) has been inovated during war vs peace time

My feelings are clear, but this does not constitute an objective answer, of course

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The public sector is not the same thing as government borrowing. Not all public spending is spent on the 'public sector'. Although weasel wording to call the national deficit the "public sector deficit" may create that illusion temporarily given the colloquial way in which the term "public sector" is used here. There is public procurement (tens of billion in subsidy to the private sector really), PFI payments, interest payments, bank bail-outs, EU subscriptions, consultancy contracts, IT contracts and benefits amongst other things before anyone working for the state gets paid for doing anything.

nonsense. if you think govt is not public sector then you are simply categorically wrong. bank bailouts and EU funding (at apporx 5-10 billion per year from a quick google) may be separated out (or arguably not), but govt is govt and it is part of the public sector. Private consultants consulting for the govt are absorbing public funds, supervised by public sector management. It's all public sector.

It is also pointless spouting on about the absolute level of the national debt as if that has ever been paid off for even a day since such a thing came into being. Christ on a bike, we were renting out the country to the French for part of the 17th century just to cling on (Charles II). And now, suddenly, it has to be paid off in full next year? Its the same cheap stunt as pretending public sector pension liabilities have to be paid in full tomorrow. There are very serious issues with both but you won't really get any support for your position by hyping that which can fend for itself in scaring the crap out of people anyway when presented honestly.

nonsense again. more debt equals higher interest payments which costs more people more taxes. moving to a multiple higher than GDP is very far from the healthier lower GDP-proportion situation of recentdecades.

I'm a bit disappointed in you actually, you don't usually post this brand of cheap tripe.

Hopefully its the drink talking, judging by the errant typing, and normal service will be resumed shortly. :(

not drunk, but sleepy, worked a long day today and a bit wired. still right tho ;)

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It's the govt doing the borrowing you twit, not the public sector.

Christ on a bike, how thick do you have to be? You actually think all the money the Treasury borrows every day from the money markets is to pay for civil servants?

Honestly, the British have to be the stupidest, most economically illiterate bunch of idiots in the world. By all means slash the numbers to 250,000 if it makes you feel good but don't believe for one second that the reduction in expenditure will be anywhere near proportionate. That's just simpleton economics but then most of the private sector are precisely that.

Anyone want to buy my Lloyds Bank shares?

That's the private sector for you, you twit.

:lol::lol:

That statement is so dumb it could have only come from a gov't employee.

The gov't is part of the public sector you numpty. If they stopped borrowing the money then they wouldn't be able to pay gov't employee wages, in economic terms thats known as a fiscal crisis. What do you think they're doing with all this money, investing in infrastructure?

You cannot trim th budget by £175bn without cutting the odd public sector job here or there, and thats just to balance the books. To make a significant dent in the national debt they would have to cut way more than that. Sorry if thats inconvenient for you, I just hope you're not a lesbian outreach worker.

Edited by chefdave
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You need to wake up and have a think about what's going on. Nobody minds paying for the services that you've just mentioned but when the public sector are borrowing £175bn a year just to keep afloat then something has gone hideously wrong......

Yes, we've all been f****d by the financial industry (PRIVATE SECTOR!)

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binmen have been on work to rule (rather than striking) in edinburgh for months, a private firm paying almost double the wages is taking up the slack...

anyways, macca is right, if its a cushy number, get on the gravy train, it stops at a teacher training college near you. Or is being a paperclip laminator salesman that much more satisfying?

I'd only notice if the private sector went on strike if the supermarket shut. I don't need nuffin else from it.

:lol::lol::lol:

+1 to the private sector bashers.

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For £1500 per person per year we get a national health service which will provide you with any healthcare you need and never send you a bill. There is no way a private health system could do the same for that price.
Yes the NHS is quite good. But 12 years ago the budget was ~55bn a year, not the current ~110bn.

Can't we go back to paying £750 per person per year instead? It wasn't that bad - look at the ONS mortality statistics - the rate of improvement in longevity was the same before as after the doubling of the budget. What did it achieve? We doubled GPs pay, increased other's pay, but for the consumer of services the outcome (when you hopefully walk out of hospital) hasn't got twice as good. Waiting lists have come down a bit, but waiting won't kill you. (If it might you will get to the front of the queue anyhow).

Roughly speaking I'd say 60% of public sector workers are 'key' workers that we would sorely miss. (Doctors, nurses, firemen, front line staff). The other 40% could probably be made redundant without a big drop in the main services. Personally I can't wait to the Dormouse Preservation Officer having to fend for themselves. I'm sure some neighbours can get together to preserve their own dormice if the mean so much to them. If we used to pay these people 25k, (as I remember from the job advert), then we can put them on jobseekers allowance and save a bundle. Who knows, they might get a job in pet shop or something!

The worm is turning: - The Mayor who stopped the gravy train:

Twinning with other towns is to be abandoned, as is council funding to support International Women's Day, Black History Month and the Lesbian and Gay, Bisexual and Transgender History Month.

The mayor plans to reduce the number of councillors from 63 to 21, saving £800,000.

He is quoted as saying: "We need to cut costs. I want to pass on some of the savings I make in reduced taxes, and use the rest for things we really need, like improved children's services."

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