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Guest Parry aka GOD

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8278a416-5f74-11...?nclick_check=1

The state of Britain

By Chris Giles and Simon Briscoe

Published: June 22 2009 22:34 | Last updated: June 22 2009 22:34

Government expenditure will soon account for almost half of the UK economy. One in five of Britons now works for the state; more than one in twenty work for the National Health Service.

Only in world wars or when it owned the commanding heights of industry has the British state assumed such importance. From the National Health Service, the world’s third largest employer, to the 21 concrete mixers owned by the Ministry of Defence, the public sector reaches almost every area of people’s lives.

In his April Budget documents Alistair Darling, chancellor of the exchequer, conceded that the likely underperformance of the economy was so great that public spending would soon account for 48 per cent of national income, borrowing would hit £175bn and public sector debt was close to reaching £1,000bn.

Politicians are vying to fight the next election on the size and boundaries of the state. While Gordon Brown, the prime minister, insists spending will rise, he is talking about cash spending without adjusting for expected inflation. Once the adjustments are made, public spending is set to fall from 2011. It promises to be the most savage period of public expenditure restraint since that of the mid-1990s, and to continue for longer.

So consensus reigns on the need to shrink the state, but there is no detail on what should be cut and which services protected, reflecting a lack of understanding of what the modern British state does. One of the main problems is that it has changed a great deal over the past 20 years, and this will limit the room for manoeuvre of a future government.

Health, education and social security now dominate public spending, accounting for almost £2 in every £3 spent. This proportion has risen from a little over a half as defence has been cut back and debt interest has fallen alongside lower global interest rates.

But the good times are over and in the next decade politicians will not only have to talk about tough choices, they will also have to make tough decisions. Unless Britain transforms itself overnight and becomes willing to raise taxes to Scandinavian levels – which is highly unlikely – public spending will have to be scaled back in ways that go much further than traditional Treasury-style salami-slicing.

The maths are daunting. Debt interest is no longer falling, but rising sharply as public borrowing explodes. Defence is no longer easy to cut, nor are the demands on the armed services falling as they were in the 1990s. There is no political appetite to cut the NHS. Baby boomers are beginning to retire, limiting the scope for savings from social security. And politicians talk of education as the future for the economy.

The state is so large, and the pressures are so great, that doing everything is no longer possible. Something will have to give...

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Guest Parry aka GOD
50% of GDP is spent generating 20% of employment.

Did Gordon mention cutting inefficiencies?

I see another 210,000 job loses over the previous quarter in the UK. Green shoots!

Wibble . . . wibble . . . (first time I've used 'wibble' here, feels good)

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50% of GDP is spent generating 20% of employment.

Did Gordon mention cutting inefficiencies?

I'm no fan of big government (although I do believe some government is required) but to be fair, I don't think they spend the money entirely on employing people... There are numerous fixed assets, etc. included in that figure not to mention the benefit derived from things like the National Health Service, Armed Forces, Education System, etc.

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8278a416-5f74-11...?nclick_check=1

The state of Britain

By Chris Giles and Simon Briscoe

Published: June 22 2009 22:34 | Last updated: June 22 2009 22:34

Government expenditure will soon account for almost half of the UK economy. One in five of Britons now works for the state; more than one in twenty work for the National Health Service.

Only in world wars or when it owned the commanding heights of industry has the British state assumed such importance. From the National Health Service, the world’s third largest employer, to the 21 concrete mixers owned by the Ministry of Defence, the public sector reaches almost every area of people’s lives.

In his April Budget documents Alistair Darling, chancellor of the exchequer, conceded that the likely underperformance of the economy was so great that public spending would soon account for 48 per cent of national income, borrowing would hit £175bn and public sector debt was close to reaching £1,000bn.

Politicians are vying to fight the next election on the size and boundaries of the state. While Gordon Brown, the prime minister, insists spending will rise, he is talking about cash spending without adjusting for expected inflation. Once the adjustments are made, public spending is set to fall from 2011. It promises to be the most savage period of public expenditure restraint since that of the mid-1990s, and to continue for longer.

So consensus reigns on the need to shrink the state, but there is no detail on what should be cut and which services protected, reflecting a lack of understanding of what the modern British state does. One of the main problems is that it has changed a great deal over the past 20 years, and this will limit the room for manoeuvre of a future government.

Health, education and social security now dominate public spending, accounting for almost £2 in every £3 spent. This proportion has risen from a little over a half as defence has been cut back and debt interest has fallen alongside lower global interest rates.

But the good times are over and in the next decade politicians will not only have to talk about tough choices, they will also have to make tough decisions. Unless Britain transforms itself overnight and becomes willing to raise taxes to Scandinavian levels – which is highly unlikely – public spending will have to be scaled back in ways that go much further than traditional Treasury-style salami-slicing.

The maths are daunting. Debt interest is no longer falling, but rising sharply as public borrowing explodes. Defence is no longer easy to cut, nor are the demands on the armed services falling as they were in the 1990s. There is no political appetite to cut the NHS. Baby boomers are beginning to retire, limiting the scope for savings from social security. And politicians talk of education as the future for the economy.

The state is so large, and the pressures are so great, that doing everything is no longer possible. Something will have to give...

Paying interest on paper money with no value other than what the Govt says it is worth, to people with the access to print as much as they like when they like. Therefore asking for ever more interest payments.

Seems like a no brainer to me. Take the power away from these people to create money out of thin air and charge us interest on it! Thereby saving what, £36 billion a year or so?

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Guest Parry aka GOD
Paying interest on paper money with no value other than what the Govt says it is worth, to people with the access to print as much as they like when they like. Therefore asking for ever more interest payments.

Seems like a no brainer to me. Take the power away from these people to create money out of thin air and charge us interest on it! Thereby saving what, £36 billion a year or so?

I should say . . .

By the way, love your avatar!

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Guest Parry aka GOD
50% yer say!?

Don't worry, the tipping point is 51%!

Thinking about that now . . . surely with interest accruing, this is the tipping point.

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8278a416-5f74-11...?nclick_check=1

The state of Britain

By Chris Giles and Simon Briscoe

Published: June 22 2009 22:34 | Last updated: June 22 2009 22:34

Snip/

Politicians are vying to fight the next election on the size and boundaries of the state. While Gordon Brown, the prime minister, insists spending will rise, he is talking about cash spending without ....

Snip

Is it really necessary to tell FT readers that Gordon Brown is the prime minister?

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Guest Parry aka GOD
Is it really necessary to tell FT readers that Gordon Brown is the prime minister?

It's just to confirm they are not dreaming and this is in fact a nightmare.

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Does 51% make us a full communist nation? There must be some kind of award or special recognition that comes with that level of stupidity.

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I'm no fan of big government (although I do believe some government is required) but to be fair, I don't think they spend the money entirely on employing people... There are numerous fixed assets, etc. included in that figure not to mention the benefit derived from things like the National Health Service, Armed Forces, Education System, etc.

And lets not forget a good portion of this debt has been acquired since the bail out of the financial system

uk-tax-payer-liabilities.gif

In fact the size of sums are so great that even if all other public borrowing was eliminated over night we would still be left with a staggering debt liabilty. This is going to cause huge problems going forward because sooner or later a politician or party will break ranks with the current status quo and start asking awkward questions such as why we are still paying interest to Northern Rock bond holders when public services are being slashed.

Personally I think it is inevitable that the UK will default on its external debt at least in part because I suspect that certain parts of the UK such as Scotland are not going to swallow the cuts and will seek to walk away from their liabilities by declaring independence. Once that happens other parts of the UK may follow. Indeed, I think that some politicians may already realise that this is coming. What some may be hoping is that some other countries in the Western world will default first thus setting a precedent that they can follow. No one wants to attract the approbrium for being first but once soveriegn defaults start it may well become an avalanche.

Edited by up2nogood

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Does 51% make us a full communist nation? There must be some kind of award or special recognition that comes with that level of stupidity.

There's going to be a lot of public sector mortgages not getting paid very shortly. The banks will be needing another bailout to help smooth things over.

Let the good times keep rolling. :blink:

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I'm no fan of big government (although I do believe some government is required) but to be fair, I don't think they spend the money entirely on employing people... There are numerous fixed assets, etc. included in that figure not to mention the benefit derived from things like the National Health Service, Armed Forces, Education System, etc.

Of course we derive a benefit, thats why the NHS etc exist.

Just like we get a benefit from spending money at Tesco's et al. Tesco's also have the same fixed assets and maintenence costs.

The fact remains that half of our collective earning and spending helps generate 20% of employment in this country. The other half generates the other 80%.

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Personally I think it is inevitable that the UK will default on its external debt at least in part because I suspect that certain parts of the UK such as Scotland are not going to swallow the cuts and will seek to walk away from their liabilities by declaring independence.

I think it is important that, should they do this, they take the liabilities which relate to the Scottish banks with them.

It's only fair, after all.

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Guest UK Debt Slave
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8278a416-5f74-11...?nclick_check=1

The state of Britain

By Chris Giles and Simon Briscoe

Published: June 22 2009 22:34 | Last updated: June 22 2009 22:34

Government expenditure will soon account for almost half of the UK economy. One in five of Britons now works for the state; more than one in twenty work for the National Health Service.

Only in world wars or when it owned the commanding heights of industry has the British state assumed such importance. From the National Health Service, the world’s third largest employer, to the 21 concrete mixers owned by the Ministry of Defence, the public sector reaches almost every area of people’s lives.

In his April Budget documents Alistair Darling, chancellor of the exchequer, conceded that the likely underperformance of the economy was so great that public spending would soon account for 48 per cent of national income, borrowing would hit £175bn and public sector debt was close to reaching £1,000bn.

Politicians are vying to fight the next election on the size and boundaries of the state. While Gordon Brown, the prime minister, insists spending will rise, he is talking about cash spending without adjusting for expected inflation. Once the adjustments are made, public spending is set to fall from 2011. It promises to be the most savage period of public expenditure restraint since that of the mid-1990s, and to continue for longer.

So consensus reigns on the need to shrink the state, but there is no detail on what should be cut and which services protected, reflecting a lack of understanding of what the modern British state does. One of the main problems is that it has changed a great deal over the past 20 years, and this will limit the room for manoeuvre of a future government.

Health, education and social security now dominate public spending, accounting for almost £2 in every £3 spent. This proportion has risen from a little over a half as defence has been cut back and debt interest has fallen alongside lower global interest rates.

But the good times are over and in the next decade politicians will not only have to talk about tough choices, they will also have to make tough decisions. Unless Britain transforms itself overnight and becomes willing to raise taxes to Scandinavian levels – which is highly unlikely – public spending will have to be scaled back in ways that go much further than traditional Treasury-style salami-slicing.

The maths are daunting. Debt interest is no longer falling, but rising sharply as public borrowing explodes. Defence is no longer easy to cut, nor are the demands on the armed services falling as they were in the 1990s. There is no political appetite to cut the NHS. Baby boomers are beginning to retire, limiting the scope for savings from social security. And politicians talk of education as the future for the economy.

The state is so large, and the pressures are so great, that doing everything is no longer possible. Something will have to give...

It's actually much worse than that

If you have a NI number, you are an employee of the state. It matters not whether you work for the private sector or you are registered self employed. You are an empolyee of the state, you are chattel property ofthe state and the state will take 50%+ of everything you earn to sustain itself. We are all complicit in this fraud. There is no escape.

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Paying interest on paper money with no value other than what the Govt says it is worth, to people with the access to print as much as they like when they like. Therefore asking for ever more interest payments.

Seems like a no brainer to me. Take the power away from these people to create money out of thin air and charge us interest on it! Thereby saving what, £36 billion a year or so?

And there you have it - the real power lies with the private banking cartel - the politicians will never go against their masters unless we the people force them to do so. But for that to happen, the masses have to understand the scam that is central banking and fractional reserve banking, something I fear won't happen in my lifetime.

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Of course we derive a benefit, thats why the NHS etc exist.

Just like we get a benefit from spending money at Tesco's et al. Tesco's also have the same fixed assets and maintenence costs.

The fact remains that half of our collective earning and spending helps generate 20% of employment in this country. The other half generates the other 80%.

Wow! Do Tescos pay out social security benefits and buy expensive - but life-saving - drugs for their customers? I never knew that!

Bloody good of them to maintain a 1st class road and rail network as well. I should say.

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Wow! Do Tescos pay out social security benefits and buy expensive - but life-saving - drugs for their customers? I never knew that!

Bloody good of them to maintain a 1st class road and rail network as well. I should say.

Booo! Damn you and your rational thinking.......

I didnt even get chance to suggest the Public sector are paid 4 times too much!

Edited by Nick Dastardly

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Could give the money to Tescos and let them have a go.

I can see it now... "Value railways" - I think passengers in the South East of England are already living the dream (albeit without the low prices) :lol:

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And there you have it - the real power lies with the private banking cartel - the politicians will never go against their masters unless we the people force them to do so. But for that to happen, the masses have to understand the scam that is central banking and fractional reserve banking, something I fear won't happen in my lifetime.

We have to finds ways to make it utterly obvious.

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We have to finds ways to make it utterly obvious.

I have explained it to people, and showed them various simple videos ("Money as Debt" etc), and many just refuse to believe it.

It is so far from how the average person imagines it (i.e. depositors place money in banks that is then lent out with a small rate of interest) that they reject it out of hand.

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