Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest X-QUORK

Government Sanctioned Religious

Recommended Posts

Guest X-QUORK

My son will be starting his Primary school education next year, so my wife and I have been reviewing local school information and going through the Local Education Authority application form. Now, the four nearest schools are all Church Of England assisted or funded or whatever. As it happens I'm not a fan of faith schools, but I accept that they're part of the picture and that there's little or nothing I can do about it.

What gets my goat is the page on the LEA application form which asks for proof that my son is baptised and regularly attends church, requirements one assumes for my son to go to one of the four nearest schools (which happen to be CofE). We refuse to play silly games with the local vicar just to get our son into schools that my taxes fund, and why the hell should we...just because some local minority interest group has its name on the school sign?

I can't believe that in 2009 the fact that other people choose to believe in a certain faith has a direct influence on my son's education! I wouldn't expect my atheism to influence anyone else's kids education, so why is it ok the other way around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My son will be starting his Primary school education next year, so my wife and I have been reviewing local school information and going through the Local Education Authority application form. Now, the four nearest schools are all Church Of England assisted or funded or whatever. As it happens I'm not a fan of faith schools, but I accept that they're part of the picture and that there's little or nothing I can do about it.

What gets my goat is the page on the LEA application form which asks for proof that my son is baptised and regularly attends church, requirements one assumes for my son to go to one of the four nearest schools (which happen to be CofE). We refuse to play silly games with the local vicar just to get our son into schools that my taxes fund, and why the hell should we...just because some local minority interest group has its name on the school sign?

I can't believe that in 2009 the fact that other people choose to believe in a certain faith has a direct influence on my son's education! I wouldn't expect my atheism to influence anyone else's kids education, so why is it ok the other way around?

I sympathise: This is an outrageous and widespread problem with state-funded primary schools in this country. For reasons (hopefully) too obvious to go into, it's not been such a problem with secondary schools, but i have shuddered and screamed at te TV or radio every time over the last 10 years that our glorious gubberment has made noises about extending this problem into the secondary sector.

Angry, too. So are most other parents I've spoken to who have gone through the same, yet we seem stuck between a rock and a hard place, with no politicians fighting our corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe you have your perspective a wee bit ass about face, X.

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/faithschools/

Faith schools are only compelled to take normal state pupils where they lack applications from parents of that faith.

So you are of course, free to select another school, ideally staffed by progressive Liberal aetheists.

What is interesting to me, is that our local faith schools are crammed to the gunnels and enjoy huge waiting lists, mainly since first the education standards are the highest and second, the pastoral care excellent.

Local parents are in our case prepared to jump through many hoops to achieve much better education for their kids.

The only stipulation our local RC faithschool (Primary and Junior) makes is that children attend a Christian church regularly: not necessarily an RC church, BTW.

Of course, you and your wife could always convert to Islam say and send your kid to a local Muslim faith school................. Or Hindu; or Buddhist: who knows, you might even find a Rastifarian one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK
I am assuming that the faith schools are actually the best performing in your area?

If that is the case; Do you stand by your principles for your child's future or do you become a hypocrite and put your child's education before your atheism?

One of them is, the rest are around average. We're not the kind of parents who'll do anything to get their kid into a school just because it scores 1% higher on the league tables than the next school...there are more things to life than just exam results. The point is, the four nearest schools i.e. those within three miles, are all CofE.

I'm glad I'm not in the position of having to make the difficult moral choice between personal principles and our son's education since most school in this area are at least average, but that doesn't change the fact that religion should not hold the sway it does in primary education.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest skullingtonjoe
We refuse to play silly games with the local vicar

Dunno...all that dressing up seems to be good fun. Not too sure about it when the red-hot poker is taken out of the furnace though! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of them is, the rest are around average. We're not the kind of parents who'll do anything to get their kid into a school just because it scores 1% higher on the league tables than the next school...there are more things to life than just exam results. The point is, the four nearest schools i.e. those within three miles, are all CofE.

I'm glad I'm not in the position of having to make the difficult moral choice between personal principles and our son's education since most school in this area are at least average, but that doesn't change the fact that religion should not hold the sway it does in primary education.

Emigrate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK
I believe you have your perspective a wee bit ass about face, X.

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/faithschools/

Faith schools are only compelled to take normal state pupils where they lack applications from parents of that faith.

So you are of course, free to select another school, ideally staffed by progressive Liberal aetheists.

What is interesting to me, is that our local faith schools are crammed to the gunnels and enjoy huge waiting lists, mainly since first the education standards are the highest and second, the pastoral care excellent.

Local parents are in our case prepared to jump through many hoops to achieve much better education for their kids.

The only stipulation our local RC faithschool (Primary and Junior) makes is that children attend a Christian church regularly: not necessarily an RC church, BTW.

Of course, you and your wife could always convert to Islam say and send your kid to a local Muslim faith school................. Or Hindu; or Buddhist: who knows, you might even find a Rastifarian one!

What is the ratio of funding at these faith schools? I'd accept your point if they're 100% funded by the Church.

What on earth is your last sentence all about? Are you trying to imply that I should be happy that the local white faiths are more prevalent than the non-white faiths? Let's leave race out of it, this is about the intrusion of religion into education.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK
Emigrate

You might choose to flee the moment you dislike something, I'll stay and see if things can be changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Historically C of E schools will accept anyone irrespective of religion or lack of it . They were founded largely in the 19th Century becayse no other instituition was providing free education . In fact theres several in my area which have a mainly Muslim intake becuase of demographics yet they remain C of E .

Catholic and Jewish schools however generally prefer a commitement to their religion though are obliged by state funding to permit around 10 % of their intake to all comers .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest anorthosite
If that is the case; Do you stand by your principles for your child's future or do you become a hypocrite and put your child's education before your atheism?

Why would he be a hypocrite if he sent his child there? After all, they're state funded, he's paid for them through his taxes. Its like a non-muslim taking out a sharia financial product because it was a better deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of them is, the rest are around average. We're not the kind of parents who'll do anything to get their kid into a school just because it scores 1% higher on the league tables than the next school...there are more things to life than just exam results. The point is, the four nearest schools i.e. those within three miles, are all CofE.

I'm glad I'm not in the position of having to make the difficult moral choice between personal principles and our son's education since most school in this area are at least average, but that doesn't change the fact that religion should not hold the sway it does in primary education.

Despite being a small c conservative when it comes to state education I would insist that pupils are enrolled at the nearest school. I would further make all schools secular since there are so many conflicting faiths these days all demanding special treatment.

What about pagans? Where are the schools catering to their needs of slaughtering animals ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Skinty

How far away is the nearest non-faith school?

In terms of your child's education, I would question how well the school can educate if a superstition is central to what they teach, especially if you child ends up believing it. Atheism isn't a faith like christianity, it's the result of critical and free thinking.

On the other hand, one effective way of explaining to your child how others can adopt ridiculous beliefs purely because of their comfort value is to let them see it first hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Skinty
What about pagans? Where are the schools catering to their needs of slaughtering animals ?

They get closed down because of the nudity involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Parry aka GOD

Attended a really sh1te private school until I was 13. They had this Christmas service thing and coming from a non-religious extremely busy family we didn't attend.

Start of the new term a few of us were called to the headmasters office to explain why our families had not attended this hocus-pocus bu!!sh!t. The head was extremely angry, yelling at these terrified kids each in turn. When he came to me I let loose on the pr1ck, also pointing out that one of the pupils he was castigating was Hindi. FFS!

So he calls the old chap to tell him how I must be disciplined and the old chap rips this kunts head off, turns up at the gate and that was the last I ever saw of that sh1thole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK
How far away is the nearest non-faith school?

In terms of your child's education, I would question how well the school can educate if a superstition is central to what they teach, especially if you child ends up believing it. Atheism isn't a faith like christianity, it's the result of critical and free thinking.

On the other hand, one effective way of explaining to your child how others can adopt ridiculous beliefs purely because of their comfort value is to let them see it first hand.

Not sure how far away the nearest non-faith primary school is Skinty, probably over five miles. It would be nice if our son could go to school with the same local kids he's been to nursery with. The other point is that unlike religious parents, I want my son to make his own mind up about faith. If he asks me for my views I'll give them, but the moment I actively take away his right to attend the nearest school on grounds of my atheism I'm just as bad as those parents who force religion down their kids throats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why would he be a hypocrite if he sent his child there? After all, they're state funded, he's paid for them through his taxes. Its like a non-muslim taking out a sharia financial product because it was a better deal.

All these anti-faith school fanatics should remember (or learn) that until about 100 years ago there was no State education in the UK. All the schools were run (and funded) by the various religious organisations. The land and buildings were bought and paid for by the Church not the State.

Funding arrangements have changed over the years since State education came about but at present a Voluntary Aided faith school has to fund 10% of capital costs (including building repairs). So faith schools save the taxpayer money.

Why should your taxes fund faith schools? What? Do you think that people who attend Mass / Church on a Sunday for example, aren't taxpayers too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest anorthosite
Why should your taxes fund faith schools? What? Do you think that people who attend Mass / Church on a Sunday for example, aren't taxpayers too?

Do you support the religious indoctrination of children?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not sure how far away the nearest non-faith primary school is Skinty, probably over five miles. It would be nice if our son could go to school with the same local kids he's been to nursery with.

Round my way the faith pre-schools are the most oversubscribed. Very tricky to get your child in. You need a Baptismal certificate for those too. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest X-QUORK
Why should your taxes fund faith schools? What? Do you think that people who attend Mass / Church on a Sunday for example, aren't taxpayers too?

But why should they have 100% control over who attends faith schools when they only pay for 10% of the capital upkeep? Hardly a fair arrangement I'm sure you'll agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My son will be starting his Primary school education next year, so my wife and I have been reviewing local school information and going through the Local Education Authority application form. Now, the four nearest schools are all Church Of England assisted or funded or whatever. As it happens I'm not a fan of faith schools, but I accept that they're part of the picture and that there's little or nothing I can do about it.

What gets my goat is the page on the LEA application form which asks for proof that my son is baptised and regularly attends church, requirements one assumes for my son to go to one of the four nearest schools (which happen to be CofE). We refuse to play silly games with the local vicar just to get our son into schools that my taxes fund, and why the hell should we...just because some local minority interest group has its name on the school sign?

I can't believe that in 2009 the fact that other people choose to believe in a certain faith has a direct influence on my son's education! I wouldn't expect my atheism to influence anyone else's kids education, so why is it ok the other way around?

In the name of god Man. What are you doing?

Send him to a proper private school, like any normal person, and save him from years of dumbed down twaddle!

Just stick the cost on your mortgage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest anorthosite
Are your children feeble minded and easily manipulated?

I don't have any children. Now answer my original question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now, the four nearest schools are all Church Of England assisted or funded or whatever.

That seems like rather a lot. Four schools must involve hundreds of children. Are the families of all of these children devout churchgoers? If they are, then there must be a lot more believers about than I thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But why should they have 100% control over who attends faith schools when they only pay for 10% of the capital upkeep? Hardly a fair arrangement I'm sure you'll agree.

Do they have 100% control?

What is the status of your four closest primary schools? Are they Voluntary-Aided, or Voluntary Controlled? If the latter then it is the Local Authority that set the admission criteria, in which case don't blame religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   296 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.