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Guest BoomBoomCrash

The All Robot Workforce

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Guest BoomBoomCrash

By 2012 you can reasonably expect these machines to be about ten times more advanced than they are now and cost about 1/5th as much as they do now.

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
Sounds like there's going to be plenty of work around then so these things can get built.

Robots are the way forward, the life of leisure will be here in no time at all ;)

Hours of human labour to build=10

Hours of human labour replaced=Thousands and thousands

And it won't be long before the robots are being assembled by other robots. We need to be putting plans in place for a citizens income as it will be necessitated by the decline in the requirement for human labour.

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Hours of human labour to build=10

Hours of human labour replaced=Thousands and thousands

And it won't be long before the robots are being assembled by other robots. We need to be putting plans in place for a citizens income as it will be necessitated by the decline in the requirement for human labour.

Great.

So we are all going to be incredibly wealthy. Top stuff.

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Guest absolutezero
Hours of human labour to build=10

Hours of human labour replaced=Thousands and thousands

And it won't be long before the robots are being assembled by other robots. We need to be putting plans in place for a citizens income as it will be necessitated by the decline in the requirement for human labour.

So perhaps we were right to move from manufacturing to "services".....

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
So perhaps we were right to move from manufacturing to "services".....

Not really because outsourcing is killing us there too

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Hours of human labour to build=10

Hours of human labour replaced=Thousands and thousands

And it won't be long before the robots are being assembled by other robots. We need to be putting plans in place for a citizens income as it will be necessitated by the decline in the requirement for human labour.

These things do need programming mind you. So not bad for C/C++ programmers or Matlab/Simulink junkies.

I might get back into this, I've never been a particularly good programmer or really enjoyed writing code in the last 15 years as most of our engineering went offshore and consequently we have had an excessive focus on applications that look pretty and squirt data around. Quite boring really. I much prefer the lower level (in a machine sense), but more complicated stuff such as modelling physical processes and developing algorithms. Robotics fits this pretty well.

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Great.

So we are all going to be incredibly wealthy. Top stuff.

As long as they can program them to build houses - the primary store of wealth in the UK

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
These things do need programming mind you. So not bad for C/C++ programmers or Matlab/Simulink junkies.

I might get back into this, I've never been a particularly good programmer or really enjoyed writing code in the last 15 years as most of our engineering went offshore and consequently we have had an excessive focus on applications that look pretty and squirt data around. Quite boring really. I much prefer the lower level (in a machine sense), but more complicated stuff such as modelling physical processes and developing algorithms. Robotics fits this pretty well.

Program needs to be written once, and then can be copied as many timed as needed. Besides which the latest assembly line robots being worked on actually learn. A human performs the assembly steps and the robot watches and then replicates. These robots will even improve the assembly procedure by removing superfluous steps the human instructor might have made to improve efficency.

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Guest happy?

By 2012 you can reasonably expect these machines to be about ten times more advanced than they are now and cost about 1/5th as much as they do now.

If the robot is going to replace staff why's it building an office chair?

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Guest BoomBoomCrash
If the robot is going to replace staff why's it building an office chair?

Because at the moment robots are not advanced enough to be stroppy on the phone to customers. We need people for that.

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Guest happy?
Because at the moment robots are not advanced enough to be stroppy on the phone to customers. We need people for that.

My experience of call centres is the exact opposite - staff are required to check their brain at the door - thinking, initiative, judgement, human feeling are actively discouraged. "Your call may be recorded for training purposes" - we will sack the fvcker who departs from the script.

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Guest Skinty
Program needs to be written once, and then can be copied as many timed as needed.

Programs need to be maintained.

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Guest sillybear2

Provided I own and rent out all the land these 'robots' occupy then I see no problem, I care not whether my surfs are human or machine so as long as I can skim off their value added into my own pockets, the more productive they are, the more I can skim off. The fact these machines cannot go on strike or vote is a bonus.

Edited by sillybear2

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Read "Cybernetics", Norbert Weiner, 1947.

The man who defined the term, in a textbook about automating processes. He devotes a chapter to the social problems which would be the outcome of replacing human labour with automatons, even approached the politicians of the day and their trade union counterparts to discuss the issues. None of them had the intellectual depth to even understand what he was talking about.

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If the robots make people poor, there will be lots of employment to provide basic services to these newly impoverished people. (explained this to you several times now, boom)

Of course if the robots occupy the land then they will shut us out of production opportunity - but this has been going on for hundreds of years and has nothing to do with robots per se.

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Tesco has had these robots for ages.

Tesco.jpg

If you actually speak to one of them they often give the impression that they are alive and have a soul. I know, weird!

After 2 million years of evolution, the survival of the fittest. Having the most powerful brain ever created our six senses honed to perfection......

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £43.50 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £3.50 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £33.50 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £42.80 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £43.50 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £43.50 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £43.50 please.

Beep Beep Beep, do you have a club card. Beep. £43.50 please.

FFS!

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Read "Cybernetics", Norbert Weiner, 1947.

The man who defined the term, in a textbook about automating processes. He devotes a chapter to the social problems which would be the outcome of replacing human labour with automatons, even approached the politicians of the day and their trade union counterparts to discuss the issues. None of them had the intellectual depth to even understand what he was talking about.

The American sci fi author Kurt Vonnegut wrote his novel Player Piano about this in the 1950s. In the novel there was an elite who governed, robots who did the real work, and pretend non jobs to keep the plebs occupied. Pretty prescient I reckon.

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The fact these machines cannot go on strike or vote is a bonus.

Reminds me of the story about a car plant boss showing off his new robots to the union boss;

" I'd like to see you get these machines out on strike."

So the union guy replies "And I'd like to see you sell them a car."

Which kind of neatly sums up the problem. Mind you, I've been waiting for robots and AI to make everyone redundant for 25 years- but the kind of real progress imagined back then just aint happening. By now we were supposed to have positronic brained tin men everywhere.

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Society is better if people have purpose and self worth and a job.

That's why buying robot built or chinese built goods saves money but we pay for it in

a reduced quality of life for all, even the rich.

So highly skilled or paid jobs should allow anyone to come into the UK to work here or do buisiness

but the medium to low skilled or paid jobs should be protected because it builds a better society.

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Reminds me of the story about a car plant boss showing off his new robots to the union boss;

" I'd like to see you get these machines out on strike."

So the union guy replies "And I'd like to see you sell them a car."

Which kind of neatly sums up the problem.

The problem is in your imagination. I wish the proponents of this absurd nonsense would just sit and think about for a few moments

What you are describing is an absurd (illogical) situation - in that it cannot happen. If nobody can afford the cars they will turn the effing machines off and we are all back to where we are now. There is absolutely no reason why people wont be able to afford car, though

Mind you, I've been waiting for robots and AI to make everyone redundant for 25 years- but the kind of real progress imagined back then just aint happening.

Cluelessly waiting for the absurd to happen

We have automation on a massive scale now, but our unemployment has not risen particularly...why? Think of all that old laborious office work that is now done by computers - why isn't 90% of the population unemployed? They aren't unemployed because we can allways find something to do that aids us, and if we can't find something to do that aids us then we already have everything.

Edited by Stars

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The problem is in your imagination. I wish the proponents of this absurd canard would just sit and think about for a few moments

What you are describing is an absurd (illogical) situation - in that it cannot happen. If nobody can afford the cars they will turn the effing machines off and we are all back to where we are now. There is absolutely no reason why people wont be able to afford car, though

If you could automate and save money by getting rid of people, would you do it? Of course. Suppose I point out that if everyone did the same this would eventualy reduce your customer base because of mass unemployement- would this stop you doing it? Of course not. You would no doubt insist that you would have no choice since your competitiors would be automating themselves and would undercut your prices.

So- everyone automates-because they have to- and we end up with mass unemployment. There's nothing fanciful about this scenario.

Now, you are bursting to say that this is wrong because those displaced by automation will be employed elsewhere, based on the notion that the wealth generated by the robot factories will give rise to new demands for goods and services.

What you are overlooking is the effect of wealth being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. So, in your case, lets say you replace your entire workforce with robots, which makes your business more profitable- what has actualy happened here is that the wealth that was previosly being shared out amongst your employees and spent by them into the economy is now sitting in your bank account. Sure, you will no doubt spend some of it- but not in the same way.

So it matters not only how much wealth is created, but also who is controlling that wealth. Our civilisation is based on a mass production/consumption model- leveraging economy of scale. If widespread automation did occur this model would fail, as more and more of the capital available became concentrated in fewer hands.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy; as there is less spending due to mass unemployemnt, this fuels the demand for more automation/outsource to increase comptetiveness, which leads to more unemployment which leads to a demand for more automation/outsource ect ect.

Whats funny is that in every case those involved will be making the correct decision for themselves- but the cumulative effect of all those correct decisions will be to crash the system.

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